Lets be honest, WoW's in its current state is...

[deadman1]

Actually the last time I really enjoyed wow was when cata dungeons were still hard, It left me with the feeling of accomplishment. I've been unsubbed since 5.4 patch came out with welfare epics, they meant something when you actually had to earn them, not just pick them out of a box on the ground.

People get really stuck on the color of an item. That is just silly.

If you really care about gear and you actually are better at the game then the people that have the so called "welfare epics" then your effort will be rewarded with better gear than those people will ever have. So what is the point of giving a shit about others?

[Orcindauh]

I honestly agree to an extent , because when I started playing MoP I liked it now its just dull and repetitive so I play on a Vanilla private server now. Leveling was way more difficult during Vanilla I almost die everytime I try to kill a quest mob, I suggest if youre bored of MoP join a private server or play something else, my best adice.

The irony in this post.

[LeperHerring]

It is your own failure to find something attractive to do in the game since there is more to do now then there has ever been.

There is no more progression raiding. There are no more meaningful 5 mans. There's just one raid and four modes to grind. I already have an RPG for grinding the same crap in increasing difficulties and it doesn't require a monthly sub: Diablo 3.

[Gigglepower]

The irony in this post.

yeah I realize how it seems ironic , its just something different lol even though vanilla leveling is a grind fest

[Orcindauh]

There is no more progression raiding. There are no more meaningful 5 mans. There's just one raid and four modes to grind. I already have an RPG for grinding the same crap in increasing difficulties and it doesn't require a monthly sub: Diablo 3.

Someone doesn't raid heroics.

[gamingmuscle]

Most of the people flaming you didn't even read the post, but you're right. It's simply: Hit 90 in a week > Port to Timeless Isle & Loot a full set of 496 gear (assuming you don't already have tokens on other toons to send to it) > Chain-queue LFR to fill in missing pieces/weapon > Join a progression guild or quit playing that toon because it's already maxed out for you.

It's not fun. I've quit my main, the only reason I still play is to level alts now, and when they hit 90 I get them in Timeless gear and quit playing them. There's nothing much to do afterward. I've had my fill of LFR, and now that I've seen the entire raid I have no desire to start progressing three hours a night, three days a week through it.

I really, really hope they will at least put some accomplishment and a slower character progression pace back in next expansion, but with their current design leadership it will never happen, and that will kill the game.

There is a slower pace progression path, you just opt for the fast pace LFR one. Most complaints seem to stem from people's inability to actually choose to do what that claim they really want. Yes LFR is easy and lets you see content in say 4 weeks. But you don't have to do it. I don't really like LFR so I don't run it on my main. My alts I will, as I don't have the time or desire to commit to normal/heroic raiding on 5 toons.

[Balgazarr]

They still mean something when you get them from raid bosses. 496 epics are complete garbage in 5.4 when heroic raid bosses drop 566 gear. It means a fucking ton if you're fully geared in that and you DEFINITELY earned them.

This horribly irrational and illogical stance has never made a single fucking bit of sense.

Im sure it dose mean something to someone who raids, but I havent done raiding since wrath, and I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't raid. I just can't get into sitting in a raid for hours on end like I used to, also I have seen nothing exciting about raiding, Lich King was a fun raid, Death Wing was a joke didn't even bother, and Hellscream dosen't do much for me either.

[deadman1]

Actually I have 15 or so lvl 90's myself, the reason I go back and lvl so many toons in a game I don't like is it's the end content I'm not enjoying. I still have fun lvling and playing the vanilla/Bc and wrath areas. But honestly I don't know why I keep hanging around, I guess it's hope that things will get better next xpack.

The thing is you say that you don't like the end game of wow yet you haven't raided ever, and you haven't done any competitive PvP other than a few arenas here and there.


So what exactly are you basing your dislike off of?

I can't really say that I don't like pizza if I've never eaten pizza now can I?

[Marema]

There is no more progression raiding. There are no more meaningful 5 mans. There's just one raid and four modes to grind. I already have an RPG for grinding the same crap in increasing difficulties and it doesn't require a monthly sub: Diablo 3.

Progression raiding is exactly the same as it has ever been. You clear one raid and move onto the next. The only reason in the old days to do lower tier raids was for attunements and thankfully they realized how messed up that was and removed that garbage.

Get into a raid guild. Clear normal then raid heroic. One mode. Very simple concept.

[LeperHerring]

Progression raiding is exactly the same as it has ever been.

No it isn't, why are you commenting if you have no clue at all about the game mechanics? Progression raiding mean you need to kill one boss to move to the next, and clear one raid to get to the next one. You don't have to do that anymore.

Clear normal then raid heroic. One mode. Very simple concept.

I guess counting to two is not such a simple concept for you. Let me help: 1: normal, 2: heroic. Also flex and LFR on alts even if I skipped them on main.

[deadman1]

There is no more progression raiding. There are no more meaningful 5 mans. There's just one raid and four modes to grind. I already have an RPG for grinding the same crap in increasing difficulties and it doesn't require a monthly sub: Diablo 3.

There is no more progression raiding.

Heroic raiding. If you haven't got 14/14HC you can't talk shit about how difficult it is. FACT

There are no more meaningful 5 mans.

There never has been in WoW, the end game of PVE is not dungeons, it is raiding. FACT

There's just one raid and four modes to grind.

Raiding has always been about grinding, Hence gear treadmill, the only thing that is changed is that there is more options now. If LFR is too easy move to flex if flex is too easy move to norm, if norm is too easy move to HC. FACT

I already have an RPG for grinding the same crap in increasing difficulties and it doesn't require a monthly sub: Diablo 3.

Apples ≠ Oranges. FACT

- - - Updated - - -

No it isn't, why are you commenting if you have no clue at all about the game mechanics? Progression raiding mean you need to kill one boss to move to the next, and clear one raid to get to the next one. You don't have to do that anymore.



I guess counting to two is not such a simple concept for you. Let me help: 1: normal, 2: heroic. Also flex and LFR on alts even if I skipped them on main.

But if you also raided from the start to finish of an expansion then it wouldn't matter if that was the case.

You seem to keep getting caught up on what other people are doing to play the game when you should be worried about yourself.

[Orcindauh]

No it isn't, why are you commenting if you have no clue at all about the game mechanics? Progression raiding mean you need to kill one boss to move to the next, and clear one raid to get to the next one. You don't have to do that anymore.

Actually it is. Heroic progression raiding is the same as it was in BC. The only difference is you can choose to just clear the bosses on normal before the next reset if you aren't able to do it then so you have more chances at gear.

[Marema]

No it isn't, why are you commenting if you have no clue at all about the game mechanics? Progression raiding mean you need to kill one boss to move to the next, and clear one raid to get to the next one. You don't have to do that anymore.



I guess counting to two is not such a simple concept for you. Let me help: 1: normal, 2: heroic. Also flex and LFR on alts even if I skipped them on main.

Which boss in SoO can you skip? Oh, none. You need to kill the first one in order to get to the 2nd. So on your main you can kill a boss on normal and go back and kill it on heroic?

[Balgazarr]

People get really stuck on the color of an item. That is just silly.

If you really care about gear and you actually are better at the game then the people that have the so called "welfare epics" then your effort will be rewarded with better gear than those people will ever have. So what is the point of giving a shit about others?

I really am not worried about others, I do care what I have to do to get my gear though; I don't raid at all anymore I do quests, dungeons and some repgrind to get my crappy gear and I'm content with that for the most part, but it bugs me when I work hard for something then Blizz just hands me a whole set of gear better than what i earned myself. I have worked for everything I own, and I don't take handouts. I guess that has carried over into the game for me also.

[LeperHerring]

Heroic raiding. If you haven't got 14/14HC you can't talk shit about how difficult it is. FACT

I said absolutely nothing about difficulty. FACT

There never has been in WoW, the end game of PVE is not dungeons, it is raiding. FACT

End game for me in vanilla was 5 mans. Never stepped in raids, yet was perfectly happy. FACT

Raiding has always been about grinding, Hence gear treadmill, the only thing that is changed is that there is more options now. If LFR is too easy move to flex if flex is too easy move to norm, if norm is too easy move to HC. FACT

It was partially about a grind (farm raids), partially about progress (new boss tries). FACT

Apples ≠ Oranges. FACT

RPG = RPG. FACT

[Deleted]

Thanks for the opening post. I agree with everything you said and i don't think it could be said enough. So don't be afraid that there are many threads about the topic. WoW is a very emotional thing for many people and it hurts to see what blizzard does. They managed to remove the magic and transformed it into an interactive hamster wheel.

[LeperHerring]

Which boss in SoO can you skip?

Every single one. I don't have to kill a single boss in SoO to be able to kill bosses in the next tier.

[Dahij]

I agree with everything. I remember when I started playing back in 2005, took a while to level my warrior to 60, but I loved how I had to go explore different continents and zones to find appropriate quests for my level. The group quests were also great, like that place in silverpine just outside SFK, or jintha'alor in Hinterlands.

When going to a dungeon you would encounter elite mobs outside the dungeon that you would fight through really gave the feeling that something big was going down every time you went to a dungeon.

So once I dinged 60, what was there to do? It was somewhat hard to get into one of the better guilds to do raids, so I ran dungeons to gear up and to make sure I had the absolute best gear before attempting raiding I leveled up my blacksmithing to craft some items like the Enchanted Thorium Helm. Took me weeks to save up the gold and farm the mats for it, but damn it felt good once I did make it.

I believe the helm was the final piece of my BiS pre-raid gear so I started to look for guilds, while still running the fun, somewhat challenging dungeons while my friends who had played for a while were clearing BWL.

I joined some different guilds, not really a guild hopper, I started at the bottom doing ZG but when I felt that the guild couldnt progress at a decent pace or even died due to bad progress, I had some gear that could get me into a guild that was one step further and worked with the guild to reach goals. While I killed the bosses months after my friends had, in the end of vanilla we were at the same stage in raiding, and it felt good after all the hard work.

These days people feel so entitled to everything that is in the game, while I do understand that content is "wasted" if only 1% can see it, it does remove the sense of success when you do actually reach it, but tbh, ANYONE could reach the top even if it went back to vanilla style, except the people who cant even schedule one raid a week perhaps. As the OP, I did enjoy working from tier to tier, instead of jumping directly from max level to highest tier, and I'm sure a lot of people do. But it's not going to change now, not while theres LFR and free epics being thrown around.

[LeperHerring]

Actually it is. Heroic progression raiding is the same as it was in BC.

No it isn't. I raided in BC and did heroics since they were introduced. They are nothing at all alike (except comparable difficulty). In BC I was progressing: every new boss I killed I got to make real progress, see new part of the instance, new lore, new boss. Heroic is just grinding, not progress.

[Razecog]

No it isn't, why are you commenting if you have no clue at all about the game mechanics? Progression raiding mean you need to kill one boss to move to the next, and clear one raid to get to the next one. You don't have to do that anymore.

So you want everyone to run MSV, HoF, ToES AND ToT before they can even enter SoO? Yeeeeeeeeeeeah no.