November 4 - Even More LFR Nerfs

[owbu]

So in ToT sucess ratios were low, but blizzard said they are normal for that early in the patch.
Then they nerfed it.
In SoO sucess ratios were low, but blizzard said they saw the same data in ToT, so they dont have to nerf if.
Then they nerfed it.

...maybe next time, they should just start at a lower level. Its not that anyone in there apreciates the challenge anyways or they wouldnt be in there.

[Ragashii]

Better yet, why does the bosses even have any health? They should just fall over by looking at them right?

Basically. I mean nobody is running LFR to master mechanics or improve themselves anyway. It's just people on alts or fresh off the timeless isle. MSV LFR was pretty much the sweet spot in terms of how easy it was. Elegon was an exception for a while there but he fell in line once people stopped falling into a pit. It's just silly that you can finish an entire flex run, which is harder than LFR mind you, in about half the time it takes to run LFR. If LFR is meant to be the quick version of raiding then it is currently failing pretty hard in that regard.

[Itakas]

So, let me ask you: Why should someone in an immersive role playing game be concerned with how much "dps or healing they are doing"?

Does the Blizzard UI have a DPS or HPS meter?

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I wouldn't kick someone who was doing 0 DPS or 0 HPS who was being nice, if we weren't wiping due to lack of DPS or HPS.

But "not caring" is not the same as "occasionally saying something supportive."

That would be a question in place if the bosses blizzard implemented didnt have enrage or if people couldnt die in raid. So if you could bash a boss for 30min and then get the kill, noone would mind the dps, but since there is a time frame in which you have to kill the boss, ppl should care how much dps they do. Same for hps, if everyone was unable to die, then sure no use to watch your hps, but since ppl die during boss fights healers should care how much hps they do.

Now if boss dies in time, then sure i guess some might have a mind set like you saying it went down doesnt matter who did what, but guess what it matters to ppl who actually try and boost ppl who dont care.

[Deleted]

Basically.

I was being sarcastic, but whatever floats your boat.

Really the only real change I could see that would actually help out is reduce the amount of people in the LFR group to 5 or something, that way it's the way Glorious Leader likes it where he can carry everything.

[Normie]

So in ToT sucess ratios were low, but blizzard said they are normal for that early in the patch.
Then they nerfed it.
In SoO sucess ratios were low, but blizzard said they saw the same data in ToT, so they dont have to nerf if.
Then they nerfed it.

...maybe next time, they should just start at a lower level. Its not that anyone in there apreciates the challenge anyways or they wouldnt be in there.

I think their LFR difficulty calculator is miscalibrated, but pretty badly.

[Glorious Leader]

It really isn't, they have the exact same problem:

Guaranteed chance of finding a group no matter how badly you perform + complete anonymity = the content has to be so ridiculously easy that there is next to no chance at failing.

NO they don't have the same problem. In fact you just pointed out why they don't. That's not the ONLY reason why they aren't the same thing (and why your comparison is dog shit irrelevant) but it's one of the bigger reasons and it's why group finder works for smaller scale stuff and maybe not for larger scale stuff. Or better said it doesn't work when the content can't be properly made for it's intended audience. Raids are made for raiders, trying to scale it to a one size fits all model isn't fooling anybody.

[Ragashii]

I was being sarcastic, but whatever floats your boat.

You forgot the /s. Sarcasm doesn't translate over text very well.

[Deleted]

Well one theory could be the next expansion is closer to release date than we thought. SOO is the final raid is it not.

[Normie]

It's just silly that you can finish an entire flex run, which is harder than LFR mind you, in about half the time it takes to run LFR. If LFR is meant to be the quick version of raiding then it is currently failing pretty hard in that regard.

That's true, and I don't know why Blizzard insists on adding pointless difficulty to LFR.

* Why is LFR so unpleasant for tanks to run that even though they are <1/10 the raid composition, you have to wait 30 minutes to get into LFR as DPS?
* Why are groups routinely wiping 5+ times on bosses more than a week after the wing is opened?

If it's supposed to be EZ mode raiding, make it EZ mode raiding. Don't make it more strenuous than Flex.

[Felrane]

Good thing LFR gear is terrible, the power jump from 528 to 572 is HUGE so who cares about the gear, if you have ever done it on alts when you have free time its horrible in the wings, almost as bad as the second was when it was first released. So thank goodness hopefully that one trinket i need wont take 1-4 hours because not everyone gets perfect drops in flex/normal/heroic.

[Deleted]

I lol'd when you said Flex having competent players. Flex should infact be nerfed into oblivion, because atm, Flex is more difficult then Normal. Why? Because in Normal you have better cooperation, and no anti-social jerks who middle finger eachother everytime. At least people in LFR just want to go trough the content and enjoy the game for fun. Flexers are completely loot centric and also very rude. Can't count in how many Flex groups I've been in with average ilvl of 550 and at least 5 players with legendary cloak still nor understanding or caring about any strategy at all.

[Deleted]

NO they don't have the same problem. In fact you just pointed out why they don't. That's not the ONLY reason why they aren't the same thing (and why your comparison is dog shit irrelevant) but it's one of the bigger reasons and it's why group finder works for smaller scale stuff and maybe not for larger scale stuff. Or better said it doesn't work when the content can't be properly made for it's intended audience. Raids are made for raiders, trying to scale it to a one size fits all model isn't fooling anybody.

And dungeons were meant to be a challenge on a smaller scale, yet with LFD it never can be. And before you go on with "you've got challenge modes", yes fine, challenge modes, they were great to run once for cosmetic rewards, but it's more of a race than actually running a fun challenging dungeon with friends, and it's not even something that is an option when you've leveled up an alt to gear up.

Dungeons weren't meant to be carried by a complete minority of the people in the group, yet here we are, the exact same problem.

[Deleted]

I feel that this player is quote-worthy. He's from a top raiding guild on Stormrage and is talking on behalf of one of his alts and LFR:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10462986205#8

"TOP" Raiding Guild? its ranked 81...if it was in top ten okay.....

I for one Im happy that my 10 alts can now be dragged faster through lfr....

[Raelbo]

Honestly, just mail people the potential bags/loot they would've won instead of making them do the raid at this point.

Honestly, this kind of statement is neither helpful nor worthwhile.

I am not going to argue about whether the nerfs should be there or not, but the argument that people are only doing LFR for the loot is the intellectual equivalent of pulling <50K dps in LFR.

The purpose of LFR is for people to have fun while doing something. Loot is a secondary objective. Yes I realise there are some people who only do LFR for the loot only, and otherwise wouldn't be there, but that is their problem.

Siege of Orgrimmar was brilliant, the mechanics were brilliant and it was a great raid. Just because a few bad players who haven't adapted to you know basic concepts such as moving out of AoE started complaining, they felt that these constant barrages of nerfs are necessary...

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that the basis for implementing these nerfs are the statistical success rates in LFR. In other words the target audience is struggling with the content more than is ideal. We can argue at length about how "bad" this makes the average LFR raider is, and why they are that way, but that doesn't change the facts that people should be clearing the instance in this format within a reasonable time frame. If you want to engage in meaningful progression oriented content where you are challenged to complete the content, go do normals and heroics.

LFR isn't difficult

The fact that these nerfs are happening proves that for the target audience ie those participating in LFR, the content is actually difficult. Difficulty is a subjective thing and that which you or I find easy might be considered difficult by someone with less experience and/or ability. For example, I could say that understanding how it is possible that some people find LFR difficult is not difficult, but clearly your post would indicate that for some people, it is.

The majority of casuals have moved to Flex Finder mode, leaving only the AFKers, the incredibly bad (mostly ungemmed/unenchanted/not reforged) and the Portuguese playerbase to run LFR.

Now that you've got that out of your system, I hope you feel better. If LFR gives these people something fun to do, then good for them.

Nerf it all you want, it's not going to teach players the core fundamentals of raiding or having to actually... God forbid, learn strategy to earn potential loot.

So what? Maybe some players don't care about learning to raid properly. Why should they be forced to just to have a little bit of fun in LFR? LFR is for everybody, including those who don't really have a clue either way, but just want to have a bit of fun. LFR doesn't force anyone to become a better raider in order to enjoy success but that doesn't mean that someone can't become a better raider through LFR participation. It is up to the person running LFR to determine what they take from the format, and if it is worth the time, effort and potential frustration.

I thought that an MMO revolved around hard work, grinding and team work..

Nope, you thought wrong. Sorry.

An MMO revolves around having fun in an expansive game world occupied by a bunch of other people. It does not mandate how you should have fun. WoW does indeed provide a lot of content that revolves around hard work, grinding and team work because a lot of the players enjoy that way of playing. But that does not mean that everyone playing the MMO needs to be attracted to those types of activity.

Oh well, I just enjoy seeing news like this as I occasionally check on MMO-C and Blizzard to see what the latest news is... I'm just waiting for more expansion information to determine whether I'll start a new account or not.

Seems to me you have issues mate. There is a difference between being interested in where the game is going and writing a condescending post belittling a bunch of people.

[Glorious Leader]

And dungeons were meant to be a challenge on a smaller scale, yet with LFD it never can be. And before you go on with "you've got challenge modes", yes fine, challenge modes, they were great to run once for cosmetic rewards, but it's more of a race than actually running a fun challenging dungeon with friends, and it's not even something that is an option when you've leveled up an alt to gear up.

Dungeons weren't meant to be carried by a complete minority of the people in the group, yet here we are, the exact same problem.

Really they were? That's news to me. Where did you read this? I'd love to see some documentation on that. Once again it's not the exact same problem as the numbers change the matter and success in lfd groups far more realistic. This is not the only reason why lfr/lfd are different beasts entirely and why the comparison is hardly relevant however. I mean pvp is also done through match making. Where's does your brilliant analysis fill in there?

[Vespian]

Tell that to the stressed out average and good players trying to gear up alts that sit for hours hitting 4 - 10 stacks on bosses because people can't seem to adapt to the mechanics.

That's not an excuse. Those players fail. Up the gear requirement.

I wiped 5 times on two seperate bosses yesterday. I loved it. Because it gave a challenge; Overcome the retard.

[Molestron]

Well people were actually wiping in LFR. WIPING!!! We can't have that.

[Deleted]

That's true, and I don't know why Blizzard insists on adding pointless difficulty to LFR.

* Why is LFR so unpleasant for tanks to run that even though they are <1/10 the raid composition, you have to wait 30 minutes to get into LFR as DPS?
* Why are groups routinely wiping 5+ times on bosses more than a week after the wing is opened?

If it's supposed to be EZ mode raiding, make it EZ mode raiding. Don't make it more strenuous than Flex.

People still don't get it...

Currently the the difficulty from from easier to harder is in my opinion as follows:
Normal>Flex>LFR>Heroic

Normal is always very smooth for me. Flex starts to get more strenous trying to cooperate with rude egocentric people will make for one tiring raid session. As for LFR, this one is more difficult then any other mode I've tried. Its 100% stress... Heroic geared friends of mine were traumatised in LFR, now what does that tell you.

[Vespian]

People still don't get it...

Currently the the difficulty from from easier to harder is in my opinion as follows:
Normal>Flex>LFR>Heroic

Normal is always very smooth for me. Flex starts to get more strenous trying to cooperate with rude egocentric people will make for one tiring raid session. As for LFR, this one is more difficult then any other mode I've tried. Its 100% stress... Heroic geared friends of mine were traumatised in LFR, now what does that tell you.

That they should never join the army and probably should be hospitalized, just in case.

[Arbs]

Remove Gear from LFR, than problem should be fixed. Good players know where to get the best loot.