November 4 - Even More LFR Nerfs

[nekobaka]

Flex actually IS easier than LFR, because you can create a moron-free group, which is plain impossible in LFR.

It is not about creating a moron-free group, it is about a higher likely hood of gathering team oriented players who are willing to pull their own weight instead of being selfish dbags passing the buck to others.

So how many people, exactly, would be torn up about LFR going away and Flex raids taking their place?

I personally dont have an issue as I stopped both now and it might shift more development back to five mans. Given that LFR is already in place I see more of a reason to further gut it and maybe even kill the raiding aspect of it as it just doesnt work out with players who have no interests in working together as a team and learning mechanics. If that is Blizzards target audience then the developers need to cater to it directly instead of shoving the burden on those who are trying and team players. LFR shouldnt be stress less for only those who pass the buck to others.

[Alyxanna]

Bosses will all be tank & spank with mechanics you can largely ignore.

There are people who enjoy tank and spanks and zerging down bosses. Maybe more than you imagine. Agree that there should be more internal use of raid warnings in LFR with short but specific instructions. LFR doesn't need to be a mystery. Eventually Blizzard will figure this out.

[melodramocracy]

LFR should not be required to gear up an alt in preparation for an alt run, and myself aside, I know many people who have stopped putting much time into gearing alts to get ready for flex solely because of having to do it in LFR.

If it wasn't a significant step in the gearing process for a lot of folks, queue times would be even higher. Causing even fewer people to bother with it.

Which kind of defeats the purpose of it existing to begin with.

And again, the community talks out both sides of its mouth, by getting on forums and saying "LFR needs to go away / shouldn't be mandatory / L2P bads", and then getting in chat and requesting 540+ for flex run candidates.

[Yriel]

So how many people, exactly, would be torn up about LFR going away and Flex raids taking their place?

My guess would be : Everyone who runs LFR now instead of flex.

[Alyxanna]

So how many people, exactly, would be torn up about LFR going away and Flex raids taking their place?

The difference between guaranteed entrance to a group whenever you wish and being at the mercy of someone else often with inflated requirements is substantial. Groups done through matchmaking and groups assembled for a specific raid are very different things. Much of the talk about Flex replacing LFR is fantasy because of this. It's surprising that more people that talk about this can't see this as a critical difference.

[Deleted]

The difference between guaranteed entrance to a group whenever you wish and being at the mercy of someone else when you can be on is substantial. Groups done through matchmaking and groups assembled for a specific raid are very different things. Much of the talk about Flex replacing LFR is fantasy because of this.

I think the people who supposedly demand entrance to a group should go play something for younger kids. LFR is so watered down at this point that it's beyond saving. Games usually have easy, normal and hard modes. The only games that have VERY easy modes are either aimed for little kids or pornographic games aimed for adult audiences who wish to masturbate with one hand while playing with the other.

[Deleted]

I was very loud in my criticism of LFR and why it's bad. But since 5.4 and the somewhat better and different rewards for flex, normal and heroic, I really feel LFR should be as easy as possible just like WotLK heroics. No point in torture lesser skilled/equipped players.

If mechanics are so easy for you and you are for example able to solo adds on Blackfuse even on normal mode, just try doing it in 502 gear.

[Ronduwil]

Master Cannoneer Dagryn, High Enforcer Thranok, and Lieutenant Krugruk now have less health and deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
Dragonmaw Flameslinger's Flame Arrows now deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
Dragonmaw Tidal Shaman's Chain Heal now heals for 5% of health (down from 10%) on Raid Finder difficulty.
Iron Juggernaut
Iron Juggernaut now has less health and deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
Kor'kron Dark Shaman
Earthbreaker Haromm's Froststorm Strike now deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
Wavebinder Kardris' Froststorm Bolt and Toxic Tornado now deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.

This fight was already easy, but it's very time consuming when you're running with people in LFR gear. Remember that they do 33% of the DPS of a heroic raider just because their gear is not as good. That's not anything they can really help. These nerfs are just speeding up the run a little bit. Alternately they could buff LFR loot, but the rage and QQ from "real" raiders would be deafening.

General Nazgrim's Sundering Blow now has a cap at 4 stacks, allowing him to gain up to a maximum of 25 Rage (50 while in Berserker Stance) on Raid Finder difficulty.

That's to limit the damage that a single tank can do to the entire raid. While you may enjoy repeatedly kicking fail tanks after three stacks of determination only to find the next tank is as big a failure, most of us would rather be able to power through without having to go through that misery. I'm glad they did this.

Kor'kron Arcweavers, Kor'kron Assassins, Kor'kron Ironblades, and Kor'kron Warshamans now have less health and deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.

See my earlier statement about LFR raiders doing 33% of the DPS of a "real" raider due to gear alone. Add to that the fact that 5 or 6 guys on any random run are completely oblivious to their raid chat window and will tunnel on the boss no matter what you say, and you're pretty much wiping when he does his double spawn at 10%. Another welcome boon.

Increased the time available before the defense system fully powers up for each quadrant to 360 seconds (up from 300 seconds) on Raid Finder difficulty.
Mantid Commanders' Set to Blow ability now deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.

Correcting more disproportionate DPS checks and preventing one or two duds in the raid from wiping the entire group for the lulz. These are good calls too.

Siegecrafter Blackfuse now deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
Crawler Mine's Detonate! ability now deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
Disassembled weapons now have less health on Raid Finder difficulty.
Siegecrafter Blackfuse's Electrostatic Charge is now also applied to player controlled pets.
Resolved an issue where Blackfuse Sellsword's Envenomed Shadowstep was causing more damage than intended.

Every LFR run I've done someone has volunteered to "handle" the conveyor belts and every run I've done someone has utterly failed to do so. I'm not going to cry over this. At least my 150K HPS on this fight won't be going to waste as often now.

Hisek the Swarmkeeper's Sonic Resonance should no longer damage players that were also the target of his Aim ability.

This sounds like a straight up bug fix.

Garrosh Hellscream now deals less damage on Raid Finder difficulty.
Kor'kron Warbringers now have less health on Raid Finder difficulty.
Farseer Wolf Riders now have less health and their Ancestral Chain Heal heals for 5% of health (down from 10%) on Raid Finder difficulty.
Minion of Y'Shaarj's Empowering Corruption is now less effective on Raid Finder difficulty.

Another nerf to disproportionate DPS checks, as described above.

Empowered Touch of Y'Shaarj now increases the health of mind controlled players by 50% (down from a 100% increase) on Raid Finder difficulty.

So now you need half as many players on board with dealing with MCs as before. That's kind of a relief.

[Alyxanna]

I think the people who supposedly demand entrance to a group should go play something for younger kids. LFR is so watered down at this point that it's beyond saving. Games usually have easy, normal and hard modes. The only games that have VERY easy modes are either aimed for little kids or pornographic games aimed for adult audiences who wish to masturbate with one hand while playing with the other.

The point was how likely is it to be replaced by Flex. About as likely as LFG being removed for dungeons. And for the same reasons. My advice to you is to stay out of LFR and not think too much about it. It's clear that it's causing you personal issues. Queuing up for a group when you meet the minimum requirements for matchmaking isn't demanding anything.

[LilSaihah]

My guess would be : Everyone who runs LFR now instead of flex.

i don't think we have quite the same definition of exact

[Bullettime]

Now maybe I'll actually do LFR on my alts. I stopped going because hitting 10 stacks of Determination to carry the 5 DPS doing sub 30k and the 4 AFKers wasn't worth the low chance at loot.

[melodramocracy]

Now maybe I'll actually do LFR on my alts. I stopped going because hitting 10 stacks of Determination to carry the 5 DPS doing sub 30k and the 4 AFKers wasn't worth the low chance at loot.

Come on man, this is the forums. You carry 7 dps doing under 20k, 8 afk'ers, 2 heals in dps gear, and one offline tank. All while auto-attacking, and ignoring all mechanics yourself.

[Bullettime]

Come on man, this is the forums. You carry 7 dps doing under 20k, 8 afk'ers, 2 heals in dps gear, and one offline tank. All while auto-attacking, and ignoring all mechanics yourself.

Possible to carry them on my main Hunter putting up about 300k per encounter before Determination but significantly harder on the Enhancement Shaman alt putting up 150k.

Sadly, my alt Shaman is still the equivalent of 5 DPS in many LFR runs. LFR, with its current tuning, was more difficult to carry than previous runs so Blizzard nerfed the shit out of it. Fact of the matter is many people who run LFR as their only end game content have zero interest in improving themselves so telling them to get better would just result in them quitting, much like it did in Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

It's interesting that only 5% of players have downed Garrosh on any difficulty level, even LFR.

This tier is rapidly turning into a disaster for Blizzard. I hope they don't announce at Blizzcon that the next expansion is six months away -- they can't wait that long.

You'd think they'd be glad that only 5% of players have completed the game yet, so they might stay subbed for a bit longer.

[Marema]

You'd think they'd be glad that only 5% of players have completed the game yet, so they might stay subbed for a bit longer.

I don't see why 5% is a bad thing and would be considered a disaster. If you read what the majority of people on this website has to say is that the game is too easy. That would imply to me that having a small number of people kill the final boss in a expansion would be a good thing from their point of view.

From my point of view I could care less. I haven't killed him yet and I'm sure I will before I start leveling to 95+!

[Blufossa]

Tell that to the stressed out average and good players trying to gear up alts that sit for hours hitting 4 - 10 stacks on bosses because people can't seem to adapt to the mechanics.

This. They had dedicated healers (Paladin and Priest). I came in with LFR gear and beat them at healing (Druid).

[Orcindauh]

I only que blackfuse and paragons for a chance at a pet. makes it easier for me so GG

^ Same here.

I'd hate to see how the group went after I left after Paragons. I usually do most of the leading along with ~15%+ the total dps. One time I even did 31% of the total raid dps.

[rayden54]

So? Without LFR they'd be nerfing the normals instead--just like they did in Wrath and Cata.

[dryankem]

Not sure why people even care. Don't like it don't do it. Blizzard obviously felt the need to nerf content, like they do with everything. Nothing new here and it has zero effect on the players that don't do LFR.

Arguing that it does is non-sense. The people in LFR are the ones that don't want to raid otherwise they would be doing normals or flex. For those that only do it because they don't have a raiding guild unfortunately it's the best method of gearing up at the moment, so now it's easier for you to do it and get out.

[melodramocracy]

It's interesting that only 5% of players have downed Garrosh on any difficulty level, even LFR.

This tier is rapidly turning into a disaster for Blizzard. I hope they don't announce at Blizzcon that the next expansion is six months away -- they can't wait that long.

The 4th wing isn't very old in LFR terms, and given how long it's going to be around, the entire raid is fairly young. Yes, we'll all still be wondering why folks attack Nazgrim during d. stance 6 months from now.

For me personally, I'm 3/14 normal (1 visit), and 11/14 flex. I don't want to see the end stages via LFR, and the times I have queued for it, the 1+ hour wait times is enough to make me say "yeah, I'm going to do some pvp on another toon".

Point is, there's really no reason to rush. It's gonna be here a while.