Heroic Iron Jug 25 Man

[kilj]

We were progressing for the first time in 25 man Heroic Jug. We had a few wipes at 45 million 150 million and 250 million >.<. Someone brought up to me that us rogues could sit on the boss the whole time in phase 2. Mind you we do the whole during phase 2 we get knocked back a million miles away from the boss strat to avoid having to deal with barrages strat, so healers are not near the boss to heal us. Any tips on how to make it threw that whole phase? My best was I survived till about 5 seconds left, my guess tho is ill probably have to get out after the 3rd shock pulse.

[Koji2k11]

you can cloak the knockback first time second knockback use shadowstep and third knockback just sprint back to boss, also use feint to negate the knockback damage. i've killed him 3 times already first kill was with bugged HP and the other kills were without bugged hp fight is VERY easy in 25m.

we just popped some CD for every knockback since they will be aviable for the next siege mode

[Terces]

As far as I'm aware nobody at all should be on the boss. That'd seem quite hard even with a rogue spamming feint the entire time. You're doing the same strat as our guild did and during phase 2 everyone headed to the back and just stacked for heals (except for whoever gets targeted by the laser). It shouldn't be a massive dps race of a fight if your guild is decently geared. It's more of a fight where you really gotta mitigate damage and avoid as much crap being dished out.

[Sesshou]

Do 25ms really do that run away thing? We just heal through it. Thats a pretty hefty chunk of time with zero dps, not shocking hes enraging on you (which I'm assuming is whats wiping you if the proposed solution is to have you sit on the boss). You can toss in a 6th healer if you need to stay in range as having all your dps be able to hit through both siege phases is a lot more damage than an extra dps will give you.

Though to answer your question, you'll definitely die. The static damage isn't trivial and even with feint the pulses hit pretty hard. I mean you could maybe survive on your own to the first pulse, cloak it, and run back. Really though just pull the boss off to a good spot (definitely not the one I see most people in normal / flex tank him at) and split the melee on one side and the ranged on another to roughly stack and get a cd rotation for the shock pulses.

you can cloak the knockback first time second knockback use shadowstep and third knockback just sprint back to boss, also use feint to negate the knockback damage. i've killed him 3 times already first kill was with bugged HP and the other kills were without bugged hp fight is VERY easy in 25m.

we just popped some CD for every knockback since they will be aviable for the next siege mode

The better way to do that is shadowstep the first time, cloak the second, shadowstep the third. You won't get knocked back at all ever.

[jsz]

With decent raid dps there's no reason to risk staying in melee range, if your guild is using that strategy. It's a lot of aoe dps going out from the boss and with no healers in range you will die.

[Byaah]

1. Shadowstep
2. Cloak
3. Shadowstep
4. If combat use KS just before cast ends
5. If you're an ENG jump and use cloak just before cast end

[-Raer-]

They're 7 healing it and running away. Not surprising that you're hitting enrage. At first I thought the rest of your raid was just severely under performing, but at 80-90% uptime I suppose they're doing fine. With 7 healers you should be able to stay and dodge Barrage.

Your Raid running away and taking more damage from the Barrage than my Raid tunneling the boss and healing through the Siege Mode and we're 6 healing it.

As for Rogue specific things: if your raid is running away and you're staying on the boss, you'll need a full compliment of healer HoTs+Feint+Recup to live. As for staying in range, as others have said: Shadowstep 1, Cloak 2, Shadowstep 3.

[Maelstrom51]

I have been able to stay alive without healers by using Leeching Poison, glyphing Recuperate (both glyphs), and just keeping Feint + Recuperate up for the siege mode.

To avoid the knockbacks, Shadowstep the first, cloak the second, and shadowstep the third.

[-Raer-]

I forgot about Leeching >.> Yes, for the few attempts we did with people running away Leeching was vital.

[Sesshou]

You staying and surviving with your own healing is a pointless discussion anyway. In the other section where you made this thread you said you were getting enrages at 15%. You and the other rogue sitting on the boss during siege isn't anywhere near that. I mean even if you do it by keeping feint and recup up all the time, that is substantially below your normal dps.

Now sure if you can do it all the time like Mael does, I guess you might as well. You think you two can though? I'm pretty sure Mael's guild not only has spare bres's but can meet enrage even if he died and stayed down the instant the first p2 started. From your logs, you guys clearly don't have spare res's so a higher risk strat which won't come anywhere near making up that 15% you said he was enraging at seems pointless.

I would do what Raer was saying (also what I said earlier). The mortar is only an issue if you are using low healers such as a 2 healing 10m because them moving a lot due to getting mortars / lasers on them can rng you and prevent them from healing. If you run 6-7 with a good cd rotation that you should have in a 25m, moving out of the circles shouldn't be an issue.

And you do conveniently seem to be running 3 resto druids with 3 shamans for 3 castable while running around tranqs to overlap with the 3 shocks.

[Maelstrom51]

What Sesshou says is correct. Another thing to mention is that if a bomb happens to spawn on you, you have to eat it and die or it will wipe the raid. I haven't had it happen to me yet, but its still a risk so I wouldn't recommend it on progression.

[Dextar]

Our log from this week ~
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...14&type=damage

I'm combat so I KS the first one if it's up, cloak the second and then Shadowstep the third but if you're Sin you should be able to ShS, Cloak, ShS and be fine. Everyone stays on the boss the entire second phase and we just use CDs, as long as you're not standing in tar or mortars it shouldn't be that bad.

Our damage taken ~
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ge&hostility=1

[kilj]

What Sesshou says is correct. Another thing to mention is that if a bomb happens to spawn on you, you have to eat it and die or it will wipe the raid. I haven't had it happen to me yet, but its still a risk so I wouldn't recommend it on progression.

You dont die from eating a bomb with cloak

[Madcaptn]

Like some people already said in this thread, you Shadowstep the first as soon that the cast landed, you cloak the 2nd & Shadowstep the 3rd. If your healers are doing the fight well, you shouldn't need leeching & recup, you can Feint the whole phase if you think the healers aren't doing too good a job. Depending on the amount of rogues you could also use Smoke bomb for all 3 knockbacks to help reduce the dmg on the other melee. Make sure that when you Shadowstep you move away from the center of the boss quickly, it happened before where someone would Shadowstep & get targeted with the beam & blow up in the tar pool but it doesn't happen often.

[Maelstrom51]

You dont die from eating a bomb with cloak

Yes, yes you do. Staying in without any healer pigeonholes you into several talent/glyph choices, and there really isn't a way take take a bomb and not die without the right talents/glyphs.

Like some people already said in this thread, you Shadowstep the first as soon that the cast landed, you cloak the 2nd & Shadowstep the 3rd. If your healers are doing the fight well, you shouldn't need leeching & recup, you can Feint the whole phase if you think the healers aren't doing too good a job. Depending on the amount of rogues you could also use Smoke bomb for all 3 knockbacks to help reduce the dmg on the other melee. Make sure that when you Shadowstep you move away from the center of the boss quickly, it happened before where someone would Shadowstep & get targeted with the beam & blow up in the tar pool but it doesn't happen often.

Why are people even mentioning "if your healers are good"? I mean, if they are using the outranging the boss strat, its pretty obvious that their healers can't handle being in close.

[Sesshou]

Yes, yes you do. Staying in without any healer pigeonholes you into several talent/glyph choices, and there really isn't a way take take a bomb and not die without the right talents/glyphs.

Yeah... even if glyph of cloak was enough to reduce the bomb under your max hp (and I was under the impression you needed elusiveness+cloak glyph for 25m hm), you're planning to somehow recup that damage with leeching and recuperate? GL with that, you're so dead.

Why are people even mentioning "if your healers are good"? I mean, if they are using the outranging the boss strat, its pretty obvious that their healers can't handle being in close.

He clearly didn't really read the thread. Being good or not is irrelevant. They were told by their raid leader to stand in a position where it is absolutely impossible to heal a rogue melee'ing the boss.

[Fluorescent0]

Yeah... even if glyph of cloak was enough to reduce the bomb under your max hp (and I was under the impression you needed elusiveness+cloak glyph for 25m hm), you're planning to somehow recup that damage with leeching and recuperate? GL with that, you're so dead.

Glyphed cloak was enough for me the first week of heroics on 25m. But indeed it's not feasible if your healer aren't in range anyways.

[Senftw]

When we did it first heroic week I didn't even feint, your healers can heal through it easy. Shadowstep first, cloak second and shadowstep third knockback

[Maelstrom51]

When we did it first heroic week I didn't even feint, your healers can heal through it easy. Shadowstep first, cloak second and shadowstep third knockback

They are using the strategy where the entire raid is really far away from the boss. There won't be a healer in range of him. This does not apply to him at all.

[Macor]

Shadowstep>cloak>shadowstep= GG 330k+ and 100%uptime on boss :P