World of Warcraft: The Adventure Continues

[snakeeyesma81]

From what they have said still sounds like time travel more than a parallel universe. It's kind of confusing but paradox's and time travel are suppose to be. Silly idea still IMO should have stuck with a different idea but same sort of theme.

Then explain to me how all that fits into... 'we're not changing the past, the past is fine'?

[Ruak]

It took some time but I think I get it now. Draenor and Azeroth do not share timeline effect changes.
-Original Draenor, orcs drink Mannoroth blood -> Old Horde steps through Dark Portal, invades Azeroth -> bunch of stuff -> present day Azeroth
-Garrosh escapes, goes back in time to old Draenor -> prevents orcs drinking Mannoroth blood
-Draenor is saved from destruction, however Azeroth remains unaffected (they are separate planets therefore Azeroth's history CANNOT change -- what changes on one planet doesn't affect the other until/unless they crossover [again])
-Over time Changed Draenor catches up to present day Azeroth -> Iron Horde steps through Dark Portal into present day Azeroth (kick starting the expansion)

This is the only way I can make sense of it, especially the bolded part.

Yeah... First Thrall sees Grom's death "I mourn thy loss, dear friend, you will always be remembered!". Years later (if we supposedly DON"T stop the Iron Horde in WoD) some Grom jumps into Azeroth and Thrall is supposed to be "Oh, hello, thee, dear friend! Nice to see you!". Cause Groms Hellscreams rain from the sky every second Thursday!

I say Thrall gets his current Aggra, then goes back in time, fixes some stuff, in a parallel universe there's a different version and timeline of Aggra, until a point when she jumps into Azeroth, so that Thrall can have 2 Aggras at the same time, for a threesome.

No matter how they present it, it will be utter crap.

At the moment it doesn't feel like they're showing us the lore. It feels like they're trying to convince us that the lore is cool and reasonable and valid, even though we all know it is not... Meh.

[MooMan65]

From the sounds of things, WoW is getting Abrams'd. Think Star Trek reboot treatment. Although it looks to be confined just to Draneor. Or something. I don't know anymore... :S

[thedogmode]

this expansion is not a time travel expansion? ummm really blizzard? you make the players go back to a world that doesn't exist in the present timeline anymore and you say its NOT about time travel?

[Ilfayt]

It took some time but I think I get it now. Draenor and Azeroth do not share timeline effect changes.
-Original Draenor, orcs drink Mannoroth blood -> Old Horde steps through Dark Portal, invades Azeroth -> bunch of stuff -> present day Azeroth
-Garrosh escapes, goes back in time to old Draenor -> prevents orcs drinking Mannoroth blood
-Draenor is saved from destruction, however Azeroth remains unaffected (they are separate planets therefore Azeroth's history CANNOT change -- what changes on one planet doesn't affect the other until/unless they crossover [again])
-Over time Changed Draenor catches up to present day Azeroth -> Iron Horde steps through Dark Portal into present day Azeroth (kick starting the expansion)

This is the only way I can make sense of it, especially the bolded part.

I wonder if that's going to be explained because of the Bronze Drakes. The Bronze Drakes are lords over time...ON AZEROTH. It always seemed like Azeroth was on it's own 'plane' of time from everything else. So Azeroth itself was protected, but 'shifted' off from Draenor's timeline. Think of it as a 'picture' in an art gallery being 'tilted' from the rest.

I fully understand what they're trying to do(this ain't my first 'parallel universe/time travel rodeo'), and I applaud them for it, but I think we need to get a flowchart or something up here fast(not unlike Bioshock Infinite's flowchart, XD).

[JoeShmo]

Blizzard Exec 1: So...all we need is an alternate universe theme.
Blizzard Exec 2: Like the one where everyone has a mustache version of themselves?
Blizzard Exec 1: Brilliant!
Blizzard Exec 2: One problem, we dont have enough mustaches.
Blizzard Exec 1: Print it anyway.

[mber341]

The problem with this is that there will be duplicates, won't there be a garrosh duplicate on draenor when he gets there? ner'zhul will figure out he was a villain, there will be 2 different Gorehowls for example, Grom will figure out he died to save the horde etc, all this will just crash together when they invade azeroth...

somebody halp me pls

It all depends on how much Garrosh told them. I think that's the thing. There are two Velens. One that escaped to Azeroth when the original Draenor exploded, and one that remained on the new Draenor because it didn't blow up. There are two Gorehowls. One that came to Azeroth and was abandoned in Pandaria, and one in the new Draenor still in Grom's possession.

I fully understand what they're trying to do(this ain't my first 'parallel universe/time travel rodeo'), and I applaud them for it, but I think we need to get a flowchart or something up here fast

Same.

[Deleted]

Still a better expansion than WoD.

I think I might try out this asdasd thing.

[Hashmalek]

Think of it as a portal to a parallel universe. I like the idea very much.

I hate the idea, basically we played hours in all the caverns of times, instances, for nothing; if any time shifting can be solved by creating parallel universes, why the bronce dragonflight fighted so much to preserve time...

It's pathetic how many people can't grasp the concept and how this is NOT a time travel expansion:

Garrosh is the only one that goes back in time. Him preventing the Orcs from drinking the demon blood changed the course of history. Because of this, Draenor is still intact and the Iron Horde are on our doorstep in OUR OWN TIME. When we go through the portal, we are not traveling back in time - we are experiencing the events on Draenor taking place in the current timeline due to Garrosh's influence.

For me its one of the worst arguments to tell anything, basicaly they are sending us to a universe of "What if..." (marvel fans will get it)

Think back to the DBZ scenario. Time isn't linear. It is a big ball of...well, you know the quote.

The problem here is that all the time in the caverns of time blizzard sell the idea of a linear timeline universe: "If u dont help Arthas to kill people in sthratholme, the world will colapse" "if u dont help thrall to get his freedom, there wont be any horde, so the legion wins" "if u dont help medivh to open the dark portal we are going to die", that means u didnt had to do anything (and the bronze dragonflight either), those things would only create alternate universes, no problem for our timeline (thats #!%/ to me)

[Stormgnoef]

nerd gasm cant wait to see grom

[Traveler Voltin]

ok. after reading more. its more of past draenor has somehow appeared in present time. interesting. still dont know if i will get it

[sractarius]

It's awesome but what is going to happen to Saurfang?

[mber341]

It's awesome but what is going to happen to Saurfang?

Good question! There should be two of them. One from Azeroth, and the alternate one still on Draenor. Since he hasn't been mentioned (and Orgrim has), I suspect he'll be a nice little surprise ingame.

[Soeroah]

I hate the idea, basically we played hours in all the caverns of times, instances, for nothing; if any time shifting can be solved by creating parallel universes, why the bronce dragonflight fighted so much to preserve time...



For me its one of the worst arguments to tell anything, basicaly they are sending us to a universe of "What if..." (marvel fans will get it)



The problem here is that all the time in the caverns of time blizzard sell the idea of a linear timeline universe: "If u dont help Arthas to kill people in sthratholme, the world will colapse" "if u dont help thrall to get his freedom, there wont be any horde, so the legion wins" "if u dont help medivh to open the dark portal we are going to die", that means u didnt had to do anything (and the bronze dragonflight either), those things would only create alternate universes, no problem for our timeline (thats #!%/ to me)

Perhaps Garrosh's method of time travel is different to the Infinite Dragonflight's. Or perhaps he never actually arrives in OUR past, but a slightly different version of our past, meaning any changes he makes don't affect our own timeline.

I think the Infintes have more knowledge of time travel, and would be able to better work things so they will actually change history. Garrosh, though, probably just created a splinter timeline because he doesn't know how the Caverns work (if he even uses them). The Timewalkers and Bronzes don't want to take the risk, though, and they don't want to allow people to use alternate timelines as footholds to launch invasions, like the Iron Horde intends to do.

[Thuran]

So far, the lore has completely failed in the expansion.

So far the only possible explanation for why every single event of the warcraft universe since the blood of mannoroth hasn't been cancelled (with the elimination of things such as the exsistence of blood elves, green orcs, and the discovery of kalimdor, the destruction of lordaeron, ect, basically every single event of the warcraft games is GONE), is the "changes on one planet doesnt affect the other planet" theory, which still leaves a huge, gaping, plothole:

THE DARK PORTAL DOES NOT EXSIST IF THE ORCS WERE NEVER CORRUPTED! The orcs did not figure out themselves how to create the dark portal, and garrosh certainly has no clue on how that kind of thing is done, nor does anything suggest that nozdormu or wrathion know how to create interplanetary portals (which btw, was never created by medivh in this timeline, since the azeroth timeline did not change apparently.), meaning that there is no actual way for the iron horde to even contemplate an invasion of azeroth.

Blizz has once again shown that they should stay far away from anything resembling timelines and time travel, they dont have the skill to write a story involving them, or they are just too plain lazy to do it in a way that makes sense.

[Glub]

How the hell isnt this a time travel expansion?? We all travel back in time to the old draenor dont we?

also, this was what I was afraid of, if this expansion wont change the current timeline, we know the outcome from this expac will be basically the same as what it would have been if we didnt go back in time

<sigh> It's true, some people see what they want to see, hear just what they want to hear.

I will spell it out for you: IT IS NOT A TIME TRAVEL XPAC. We don't travel *back* in time. The ancient Draenor *is brought* back from the past to the present. Changing anything there won't affect history. But since they were brought to our time, they will be able to invade us!

C'mon, it is a simple concept people... no wait, now that I think about it, it's a quite clever idea!

[mber341]

So far, the lore has completely failed in the expansion.

So far the only possible explanation for why every single event of the warcraft universe since the blood of mannoroth hasn't been cancelled (with the elimination of things such as the exsistence of blood elves, green orcs, and the discovery of kalimdor, the destruction of lordaeron, ect, basically every single event of the warcraft games is GONE), is the "changes on one planet doesnt affect the other planet" theory, which still leaves a huge, gaping, plothole:

Check out my diagram here. That might shed some light on things. Even though Draenor changes, Azeroth's history remains unaffected because they are separate planets and those events already happened. NOTE: It's only a theory based on what Blizzard said today. I'm not claiming to have the right answers. EDIT: haha, I misread and didn't notice you said that was the only possible theory that makes some sense.

THE DARK PORTAL DOES NOT EXSIST IF THE ORCS WERE NEVER CORRUPTED! The orcs did not figure out themselves how to create the dark portal, and garrosh certainly has no clue on how that kind of thing is done

According to this official page:

Gul'dan:
Indebted to a demonic lord and pitted against the mentor he betrayed, Gul’dan is one of a handful of fel orcs on Draenor, his visage and shamanic power twisted balefully by demonic communion. The outcasts he leads, the Stormreaver clan, now fight to wrest their “rightful” place in the Iron Horde from Gul’dan’s former master Ner’zhul . . . and to tempt a great army of orcs into infernal corruption.

Could it be perhaps he had knowledge of constructing the Dark Portal to share before being kicked aside from the Iron Horde? I was pretty perplexed myself about how a Dark Portal could exist on Draenor without Legion influence, then I found that profile.

[Aerofluff]

It's pathetic how many people can't grasp the concept and how this is NOT a time travel expansion:

Garrosh is the only one that goes back in time. Him preventing the Orcs from drinking the demon blood changed the course of history. Because of this, Draenor is still intact and the Iron Horde are on our doorstep in OUR OWN TIME. When we go through the portal, we are not traveling back in time - we are experiencing the events on Draenor taking place in the current timeline due to Garrosh's influence.

If that's actually the case, it sounds like a ridiculously big friggin' retcon. As in... Garrosh changed history, so now Draenor never became the ruined Outland, so anything your character "did" while leveling through Outland, you never actually did. Thrallmar and Honor Hold? Never existed. Black Temple never even happened, it's still the pristine Karabor, and who the heck knows what happened with Illidan and Kael'thas... In fact, preventing the orcs from drinking Mannoroth's blood probably would've prevented the first invasion from happening when it did (especially if Garrosh is building up the Iron Horde to return for his own vengeful purposes), which would prevent the modern day Horde from existing, etc... so much paradox.

It seems like it changes too much, it has to be an alternate timeline for any of that to even be possible. And that's just getting so convoluted that I don't like it.
Blizzard needs to explain this crap.

[ihyln]

If that's actually the case, it sounds like a ridiculously big friggin' retcon. As in... Garrosh changed history, so now Draenor never became the ruined Outland, so anything your character "did" while leveling through Outland, you never actually did. Thrallmar and Honor Hold? Never existed. Black Temple never even happened, it's still the pristine Karabor, and who the heck knows what happened with Illidan and Kael'thas... In fact, preventing the orcs from drinking Mannoroth's blood probably would've prevented the first invasion from happening when it did (especially if Garrosh is building up the Iron Horde to return for his own vengeful purposes), which would prevent the modern day Horde from existing, etc... so much paradox.

It seems like it changes too much, it has to be an alternate timeline for any of that to even be possible. And that's just getting so convoluted that I don't like it.
Blizzard needs to explain this crap.

more like this is the first wow expansion i won't be buying. rip, you were great, wow!

[Eugoogolizer]

I've seen all the same dimensional, time paradox, time travel, temporal displacement, temporal duplicate fiction as everyone else and I'm still failing to grasp this. So by preventing red orcs from drinking Mannoroth's blood and becoming corrupted tools of the Legion, would he not have also stopped the first orc invasion through the Dark Portal? Therefore what happens on Draenor, does not necessarily stay on Draenor. Without the first invasion we should, in theory, have no orcs on Azeroth if that action was prevented. One could even surmise that we would have no Dark Portal at all, because without the Shadow Council bent to the Legion's will, Sargeras would have no real use for using Medivh to even create such a thing.
So then, with no orcs what would would the Alliance races have been able to do on their entire continent with no orc invasions to worry about? Garona wouldn't have killed King Llane Wrynn. Varian likely not captured by anyone and put into battle. Maybe he wouldn't have turned out so tough.
Then, to cap it all off, there would likely also have been no Scourge invasion at all. Ner'zhul obviously isn't trapped in a helmet and controlling armies of undead. So if that never happened, then there's no Forsaken, either. So we have Varian and Arthas chillin out at the taverns, hittin on the wenches for their 20's instead of fighting for their lives and... massacring civilians. Would Kel'Thuzad have even turned to evil without the Lich King (ner'zhul) swaying him? Dalaran and Quel'thalas lived on to be boss magical cities flourishing. Lordaeron is undead-free and ringin bells and whatnot.

But let's say KJ found some other powerful being to be the Lich King, then how do we defeat Archimonde? Could the races of Azeroth have fought him off without Thrall to unite the Horde? Because again, no orcs. Maybe Archimonde gets his way and burns everything. But we can explain that away with the human forces, able to have built up strong over the years without orcish invasions to worry about and maybe Vol'jin was able to unite Trolls with the Tauren they were all able to hold off the Legion until the wisps made him all sparkly and we win another one for Azeroth.

Then we'd have things mostly the same up until Deathwing. A Horde with all the same races, except for orcs. Thrall was made out to be the pivotal character to save Azeroth from Deathwing. Could the Aspects have found another to control the Dragon Soul? Maybe they did.

But really, it's a causality paradox. He went back in time to stop the orcs from becoming Legion tools, but in doing so it would erase him from the timeline that caused him to make the decision to change the past in the first place.

Unless the Blizzard universe exists where temporal paradoxes are all okay and just splinter harmlessly into separate dimensions. Like the mirror universe in Star Trek. Then yes, our Azeroth could exist just as it does, however it would have also created a second Azeroth where the orcs didn't invade, etc etc as laid out above. Then the Iron Horde of Draenor, using Gul'dan and Ner'zhul's knowledge could create the other side of a portal from their dimension that connects to ours. Then I'd be very interested to see Azeroth-2, since Draenor would just essentially be Outland-2 by another name.