Happy to say I will return to WoW (WoD) after 3 years of extreme disappointment.

[Staysafe]

When I was very young I started playing WoW during patch 1.11, then cleared all current raid tiers during BC, then all current raid tiers during WotLK, and played for 2 months during Cata. I saw the state of the game, what was expected to come with the next few patches, and eventually the following expansion of MoP, and it was all very depressing. Honestly, the lore and execution of lore is what WoW has going for it. The story of WoW is a generally good one. However, Cata and MoP were godawful. As a huge supporter of WoW and Blizzard games in general, I have no problem saying that Blizzard messed up with Cata and MoP - there is a reason the subs dropped, what, almost 4 million? Saying the sub losses are due to the age of the game, or whatever else people are saying, is just ridiculous. I am very excited to see what Blizzard will do with WoD, there is tremendous potential with this story, and if things are done correctly, I honestly believe WoW will regain its former glory.

This is sort of anecdotal, but everyone I've talked to about WoW in real life, has said that they used to play, but that the game got bad after WotLK. Seems like I meet someone with this story on a weekly basis. Another thing people say is that all it'd take for them to return to WoW, is the return of the burning legion. The legion is the ultimate enemy in WoW - all problems trace back to it - and any expansion spent dealing with previously unheard of panda lore, or extremely poorly executed black dragonflight encounters, is seen as a waste of time by a lot of people.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Um....good for you? Not sure what you're trying to get out of this, besides trying to speak for a lot of people.

[Qanlayeni]

Saying the sub losses are due to the age of the game, or whatever else people are saying, is just ridiculous. I am very excited to see what Blizzard will do with WoD, there is tremendous potential with this story, and if things are done correctly, I honestly believe WoW will regain its former glory.

sub losses are due to the age of the game

[Staysafe]

Um....good for you? Not sure what you're trying to get out of this, besides trying to speak for a lot of people.

I've seen dozens of people trashing WoD, so I'm offering my contrary opinion. That's what forums are for, right? Conversation? Figured you would have picked that up somewhere between your 1st and 5,527th post.

sub losses are due to the age of the game

Isn't it interesting how the sub losses coincided with the 2 expansions that are generally agreed upon to be the worst?

[Transmigration]

Welcome back friend. Welcome back.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Isn't it interesting how the sub losses coincided with the 2 expansions that are generally agreed upon to be the worst?

Funny you say that. MoP is beating TBC on recent polls here, coming in at 2nd behind Wrath. Again this is you trying to speak for lot of people.

[DeadmanWalking]

When I was very young I started playing WoW during patch 1.11, then cleared all current raid tiers during BC, then all current raid tiers during WotLK, and played for 2 months during Cata. I saw the state of the game, what was expected to come with the next few patches, and eventually the following expansion of MoP, and it was all very depressing. Honestly, the lore and execution of lore is what WoW has going for it. The story of WoW is a generally good one. However, Cata and MoP were godawful. As a huge supporter of WoW and Blizzard games in general, I have no problem saying that Blizzard messed up with Cata and MoP - there is a reason the subs dropped, what, almost 4 million? Saying the sub losses are due to the age of the game, or whatever else people are saying, is just ridiculous. I am very excited to see what Blizzard will do with WoD, there is tremendous potential with this story, and if things are done correctly, I honestly believe WoW will regain its former glory.

This is sort of anecdotal, but everyone I've talked to about WoW in real life, has said that they used to play, but that the game got bad after WotLK. Seems like I meet someone with this story on a weekly basis. Another thing people say is that all it'd take for them to return to WoW, is the return of the burning legion. The legion is the ultimate enemy in WoW - all problems trace back to it - and any expansion spent dealing with previously unheard of panda lore, or extremely poorly executed black dragonflight encounters, is seen as a waste of time by a lot of people.

Oh boy, Another person who attributes the sub losses to the thing that they personally did not like. Welcome back, allow me to introduce you around. Here is LFR hater, he says that subs dropped because dirty casuals were allowed to get purples. Here is Mr. Wrath hater, who thinks TBC was the bees knees and wrath killed the subs. Over here is Ms. PVP is broken, she thinks that sub losses are because of PVP being broken. Over here we have mr. Vanilla heart shaped rose colored glasses, he believes that the game got too casual after vanilla and thus the sub drops. Over here we have Mr. Panda hater, he believes that lol kung fu panda caused the sub drops. He is mr. cow shaver, he believes that since you can't shave a cow in wow that caused the subs to drop. The we have dr. Warcraft 1 through 3 are the only good wow games, he believes that subs were inflated by the previous games and the subs are dropping naturally. In the back of the room is Mr. hates casuals, who believes that casuals of any sort have ruined the game and caused all the hardcores to unsub. Then we have Mr. Ghostcrawler sucks, he thinks Ghostcrawler ruined the game and thus the sub losses. Then you have Ms. There are other games in competition, who believes that since there are so many console games and other mmos that is the reason subs are falling. Here is young 'People grew up' Jr, who believes that people got family and jobs and lives after 8 years of wow. Finally we have Old Man 'The game is too old', he admitted that since the game is old people have quit and subs went down.

As you can see you are not alone here and you are bound to have endless conversations about how that thing you did not like caused all the sub losses even though none of you will agree on one since there is no over riding reason why people unsub, for every single unsub there is an individual reason and all are unique like a snow flake.

[Kisho]

Isn't it interesting how the sub losses coincided with the 2 expansions that are generally agreed upon to be the worst?

Can't really argue about Cataclysm (even though I personally enjoyed it and believe it to be better than TBC and WotLK), but MoP? That's considered to be a return to form, a truly excellent expansion all-round.

There's a few who hate it due to either 'lolpandas' or 'loldailies', but they're a vocal minority.

[Jtbrig7390]

I'v
Isn't it interesting how the sub losses coincided with the 2 expansions that are generally agreed upon to be the worst?

First off only Cata is generally agreed upon as the worst. Even tho I was not a fan of it MOP was a good expansion.

Second: the sub drops started at the last quarter of Wrath leading into Cata.

Third: It is a fact that one of the reasons there is sub losses is due to age. Those who started in highschool in Vanilla/TBC are now going to collage or doing other things have have had to cut back on play time.

I am on the fence about returning right now the only selling point is the free level 90 but please don't try to state ur opinion like its a fact since it has been proven wrong time and time again.

Finally I think mods need to make it where if u want to make a thread u need 100 posts.....

[Rixarius]

I'm not even sure why there is a Mists of Pandaria hate circlejerk. It has had some of the best, if not THE best raiding content to date. They didn't mess up with anything, it has been a wonderful expansion with great content that I would rate in my top 2 favorite expacs.

[DeadmanWalking]

Frankly anyone who goes around and pretends to speak for everyone just ends up looking foolish in the end, especially when it comes to the 'reason why subs went down' conversation as there are so many angles to that story that they can not in truth be told in one sitting. It would require at least 3 bio breaks and a significant amount of whiskey.

[Deleted]

I'm considering returning but atm can't say I definitely will.
I would say my decider will be level time. If 90-100 is going to take over double the time that 85-90 took, then probably not. If it's going to scale so that 90-100 takes similar time that 85-90 took then I probably will. Levelling (for me) is boring, and now that I have less time to enjoy the game, I don't want to spend a few weeks of what time I have on the game levelling.
I do like the changes to raiding sizes though, it's going to enable casual guilds alot more, which is where I'm at in terms of time commitment.

[Staysafe]

Funny you say that. MoP is beating TBC on recent polls here, coming in at 2nd behind Wrath. Again this is you trying to speak for lot of people.

October 10th, 2006 (end of Vanilla) - 7.2 million subscribers

January, 2008 (near end of BC) - 10 million subscribers

October 7, 2010 (near end of WotLK) - 12 million subscribers

Feb 9th, 2012 (mid-near end of Cata) - 10.2 million subscribers

Sep 30th, 2013 (mid-near end of MoP) - 7.6 million subscribers

So your argument is based on "my feelings", or rather the feelings of some people on MMOC. I'll just let the subscription stats sink in for a moment.

[Jtbrig7390]

October 10th, 2006 (end of Vanilla) - 7.2 million subscribers

January, 2008 (near end of BC) - 10 million subscribers

October 7, 2010 (near end of WotLK) - 12 million subscribers

Feb 9th, 2012 (mid-near end of Cata) - 10.2 million subscribers

Sep 30th, 2013 (mid-near end of MoP) - 7.6 million subscribers

So your argument is based on "my feelings", or rather the feelings of some people on MMOC. I'll just let the subscription stats sink in for a moment.

Once again its already been proven by official pop statements from blizzard that sub drops started in the last quater of wrath....feel free to keep ignoring facts but doing so won't get the thread anywhere.

[Deleted]

sub losses are due to the age of the game

Partly. I don't think its entirely wrong to say that a fair proportion of people have stopped playing because they've become unhappy with the direction the game has taken. I know I have, I certainly am not put off by the older graphics and right now no other MMO interests me more than WoW. But I won't play it because I just don't enjoy it any more.

[Staysafe]

Once again its already been proven by official pop statements from blizzard that sub drops started in the last quater of wrath....feel free to keep ignoring facts but doing so won't get the thread anywhere.

I'm not going to deny that, Arena Season 8 (ICC raid) lasted too long, and people got tired of doing the same thing. It seems like a lot of people on this site are looking for every possible reason to explain the sub loss... other than "the game has gotten worse". Why is living in reality so hard.

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm not going to deny that, Arena Season 8 (ICC raid) lasted too long, and people got tired of doing the same thing. It seems like a lot of people on this site are looking for every possible reason to explain the sub loss... other than "the game has gotten worse". Why is living in reality so hard.

The problem with u and people like you is that you don't realise there is many reasons for a sub loss and the age of wow is one of those reasons.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

subscription stats

You are too funny. You talk of subscriptions but you truly don't know anything. You base loss of lack of new subs over losing subs solely on one reason of "cata/mop" being bad without even seeing any other reason that could affect it. You deny age is not a reason yet it causes reasons. Who's going to join a game they never played before that has 90 levels? That's very daunting to new players. And don't even get me started on old players. They get burn out of playing for a long time and quit.
See these two things collide into each other, lack of new players + more older players burning out/getting bored/not liking current content.

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

Cata T11 was rather decent, T12 was great, but felt like half a tier. DS was a disappointment for me. MoP was pretty damn good, even though I unsubbed, it wasn't because of the raids, the lands ... it was daily burnout I created myself and because I didn't like where they took my main specs I played.

4 million sub drop? I blame the shitty, trollish, rude, selfish, elitist community more than I could blame the content outside of DS and gear locked behind dailies, locked behind dailies; oh, that and creating too hard of heroics at the start of Cata for the average player, telling them L2P (creating more division in community), when half the problem was groups not having the proper CC to get it done in the first place. Some groups with full CC complimenting that dungeon could breeze through, even as a PuG, while others without any proper CC or reliable interrupts would struggle for hours. Those two mistakes (DS, beginning heroics), the school bully community, class changes or core game changes that were disagreeable to some is I feel most of the losses outside of general burnout from playing one game for many years, changes in lives, personal non-game related reasons, etc.


I find it quite odd you find someone in real life, once a week, that has this opinion. I also doubt the burning legion is the sole reason they'd all return for. Some will never return. family life, money reasons, other games, and a myriad of other reasons. some like me, have had their core spec they played for many years decimated or mutated into something not fun any longer. some were bored just because they played it for too long.

Case in point, my wife, myself, and a long time friend whom we've played wow with; all have our curiosity piqued by Draenor, checking it out, comparing it to our BC experiences ... but none of us feel that if we did check it out, we'd have any interest in getting back into raiding in WoW. We all play LoL, we've played most of the other MMOs together; and we are enjoying FFXIV ARR very much. We've moved on. We are happy for any and all who still love WoW and play WoW. But it is not for us; you can't always get everyone back.

That being said, be fucking nice to people in game so you can KEEP the new players ffs.

[Deleted]

I've seen dozens of people trashing WoD, so I'm offering my contrary opinion. That's what forums are for, right? Conversation? Figured you would have picked that up somewhere between your 1st and 5,527th post.

Haha, burned . Welcome back!