[Feral] The art of a Kitten: PvE guide

[Paloro]

He seemed to imply that the only choice was between buffing a mangle and a thrash. I just said that overwriting the rake is also a possibility. How many rakes that aren't buffed? Happens often if you get a strong rake that falls off when you are at low CP. Of course it will be replaced quite soon by a buffed one.

Anyway, I am not disagreeing with what is being said. If everything is good (i.e good SR dur, good Rip dur, strong rake up) then using your DoC charge on a Thrash is better than on a Mangle.

However, none of this really matters. The "only" thing that matters for your end dps is if you happen to get a double trinket proc at 25%. Rest is just noise.

I'm sorry if there was confusion on that part, but I believe I clarified the situation more in post #1874

[mmokri]

I thought that you discuss balancing. I would buff shred + nerf rip. Not enough free direct damage.

[Deleted]

No info yet on druid lvl 100 talents? Also wondering if we are going to see some updated models for cat/bear forms, althought might not happen since it wasn't that long ago they did.

*edit* someone posted them here. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post23401800

That savage roar on passive seems really boring imo..seems like they should just bake savage roar into our class already. Obviously these are extremely early, but it still gives you an idea of the direction they are going.

[Digger Dave]

Lvl 100 Feral Talents:

1) Savage roar is now passive
2) Thrash applies rake
3) Moonfire can be cost in cat form (1 combo point, 30 energy)

Any thoughts to this?
Savage roar just seems like a quality of life improvement with a small dps gain. The thrash talent could be pretty good on cleave fights. The moonfire one just seems dumb unless there are mechanic changes we aren't aware of yet (maybe it will scale with AP and be affected by mastery?).

[Deleted]

Lvl 100 Feral Talents:

1) Savage roar is now passive
2) Thrash applies rake
3) Moonfire can be cost in cat form (1 combo point, 30 energy)

Any thoughts to this?
Savage roar just seems like a quality of life improvement with a small dps gain. The thrash talent could be pretty good on cleave fights. The moonfire one just seems dumb unless there are mechanic changes we aren't aware of yet (maybe it will scale with AP and be affected by mastery?).

Mainly depends on how ferals will be in 6.0. Unlikely but maybe rake gets a huge nerf so it'll be extremely bad, even for AoE. We really have to wait and see what scales with what. I only really pointed out that savage roar one because it just sounds really boring. One talent is giving us a ranged attack, which we needed, the other helped us with AoE, which is helpful, but the savage roar one, while maybe a dps increase since those CPs can be used on bites? instead but it just feels like savage roar at this point should be passive and make that talent something to do with CP switching.

[Glurp]

Lvl 100 Feral Talents:

1) Savage roar is now passive
2) Thrash applies rake
3) Moonfire can be cost in cat form (1 combo point, 30 energy)

Any thoughts to this?
Savage roar just seems like a quality of life improvement with a small dps gain. The thrash talent could be pretty good on cleave fights. The moonfire one just seems dumb unless there are mechanic changes we aren't aware of yet (maybe it will scale with AP and be affected by mastery?).

I was under the impression that we already had a passive ability that gives us AP > SP. If I had to guess I'd say Moonfire would do slightly less DPS than Mangle/Shred but it exists because it gives you the ability to generate combo points from range.

[Deleted]

I was under the impression that we already had a passive ability that gives us AP > SP. If I had to guess I'd say Moonfire would do slightly less DPS than Mangle/Shred but it exists because it gives you the ability to generate combo points from range.

Gotta figure out how it reacts to HotW too.

[mmokri]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1387573
Moonfire + Doc + Fon. Time to play level 100 piano.

p.s. moonfire will be buffed obviously.
p.s.s. savagery baking is dumb thing, because 4th rogue spec

[aggixx]

I was under the impression that we already had a passive ability that gives us AP > SP. If I had to guess I'd say Moonfire would do slightly less DPS than Mangle/Shred but it exists because it gives you the ability to generate combo points from range.

We don't, we have a passive that gives us Agility -> Nature SP, and Moonfire is an arcane spell. If they're smart they'll make it so Moonfire uses a completely different spell in Cat Form that scales off of AP, that would prevent a bunch of potential... unintended side effects.

I posted some more complete thoughts on TFD, but the TL;DR is:

Bloody Thrash: With live Rake damage this is super broken, definitely will be a rake nerf, or a % mod on it, or something.
Lunar Inspiration: John Madden
Savagery: Assassination Rogue

Yay? For once I pretty much agree with mmokri.

[mmokri]

@aggixx bloody thrash is not op without RoRO. Consider aoe-trash packs live less than 15 seconds in most cases too.

[aggixx]

The packs wouldn't even need to live 15 seconds for it to be insane, the real power is that it's a massive buff to our AoE (Rake ticks much much harder than Thrash does) and its damage bonus is completely linear and unaffected by AoE cap. Can you imagine what P1 Garrosh would be like with that talent? Rolling rake on like 10 targets while getting the maximum number of swipe off too? That would be insanity, I wouldn't be the least surprised if it doubled or even tripled our AoE DPS on big packs of mobs.

[Deleted]

Really hard to judge any of these talents without the details of what they are wanting to do to feral in terms of the other skills we have. Hopefully we'll know tomorrow but i'm not sure what they are giving out on the game play panel. Guess we'll see soon.

[mmokri]

@aggixx you should take a look on mages focusing crystal.
Arcane mage places this crystal with discharge only at last second of crystal. Boom millions of aoe.

[aggixx]

The one where you have to put a bunch of damage into a useless target just for it to do 30% more than the sum of what you did to it? Sounds pretty lame to me. And I don't see what that has to do with Bloody Thrash being OP or not.

[Glurp]

The packs wouldn't even need to live 15 seconds for it to be insane, the real power is that it's a massive buff to our AoE (Rake ticks much much harder than Thrash does) and its damage bonus is completely linear and unaffected by AoE cap. Can you imagine what P1 Garrosh would be like with that talent? Rolling rake on like 10 targets while getting the maximum number of swipe off too? That would be insanity, I wouldn't be the least surprised if it doubled or even tripled our AoE DPS on big packs of mobs.

It's not much different to Blood and Thunder really, don't act like this is some gamebreaking mechanic that we've never seen and will make everyone play Feral.

[aggixx]

But Rake is tuned for single target damage, can Deep Wounds tick for 500k?

Our bleed cleave is quite good in some situations, and a lot of that falls on spending a significant amount of globals and energy maintaining rakes on multiple targets, giving that to us on an unlimited number of targets for practically free without any damage changes would be a huge damage gain.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the concept or mechanics, I'm saying if that talent were to go live right now it would be very gamebreaking and hence the talent will probably recieve heavy adjustments.

E: An average rake in BiS gear (yes that means it's with Rune) on single target pulls about 80k DPS. That means if you're in a 10 target AoE situation, which you wouldn't typically be applying Rake to the mobs you're gaining 800k DPS just for 35 energy every 15 seconds. In reality it would probably be less than that because you wouldn't be clipping your Rake quite as aggressively as you would on a single target, but you're still looking at something like 500k DPS.

And normal DPS on 10 mob sustained for that gear is just over 1.4 million, so yes I would say a ~35% damage gain is gamebreaking.

[Glurp]

Because you can use the level 100 talents now right, with RoR and TED? Rake is clearly going to get some sort of change. You're acting like the sky is falling when anyone with any sort of functioning brain knows that there is nothing wrong with it.

Mechanically it isn't that different from Blood and Thunder, when you consider that Blood and Thunder originally came from Rend + Thunder Clap and Rend was a single target bleed then it's not hard to see what will happen to Rake.

[Themessiah]

Aggix is not acting like the sky is falling. He has pointed out that 'other things equal' Will of Malfurion is very strong: He is also aware that this is unlikely to go live while 'other things are equal'.

[Deleted]

-DoT snapshotting removed.
-Position requirement for abilities removed (sub rogues and ferals rejoice), Backstab removed entirely. However, there is still a 3% chance to be parried from the front so min/maxers will WANT to be behind. It just wont ruin your day anymore.

fu yeah!

[Themessiah]

Not sure I'm a fan of dot snapshotting being removed.