Did the merge have to happen?

[Khorm]

Whether or not you agree with the chosen number of 20, do you think that the merge into 1 sole top difficulty was needed?

There are varying reasons for each response so please leave your reply below on what reasons you think there are.

[zenga]

Yes it had to happen.
No it is not the right way to do it.

20 will kill heroic raiding:

this change basically means destroying half of the current 10m guilds who raid heroics, in the best possible scenario
If 30% of the guilds survives the cut it will be a lot:
- people who raid heroic content on 10m but cba with 20m for several reasons will leave (game or guild)
- most 10m will try to recruit but those players need to come from other guilds
- if 1 guild manages to make the transition through recruiting it can destroy 3 other guilds, since it's not a 1:1 process
- think about the social aspect: for every heroic 10m group actively raiding there are a bunch of people playing this game as well (socials, friends, ex raiders who are used to their guild name), take that away and you create a situation where many casual people have little reason to play any longer

15m seems to be a much more healthier number:

- there are way more 10m guilds doing heroic than 25m guilds
- there is a reason why most 25m guilds have gone 10m to begin with: recruiting issues (empty servers), people leaving the game, lag issues, social aspect (10m is easier to bond with than 25m)
- by adding a couple people to your roster you can start raiding, having to double your roster is just a massive task

Going 20m is just not feasible for 10m guilds. The reality is that most guilds are 10m, whether you like that or not.

[Lothrik]

Yes it had to happen.
No it is not the right way to do it.

20 will kill heroic raiding:

this change basically means destroying half of the current 10m guilds who raid heroics, in the best possible scenario
If 30% of the guilds survives the cut it will be a lot:
- people who raid heroic content on 10m but cba with 20m for several reasons will leave (game or guild)
- most 10m will try to recruit but those players need to come from other guilds
- if 1 guild manages to make the transition through recruiting it can destroy 3 other guilds, since it's not a 1:1 process
- think about the social aspect: for every heroic 10m group actively raiding there are a bunch of people playing this game as well (socials, friends, ex raiders who are used to their guild name), take that away and you create a situation where many casual people have little reason to play any longer

15m seems to be a much more healthier number:

- there are way more 10m guilds doing heroic than 25m guilds
- there is a reason why most 25m guilds have gone 10m to begin with: recruiting issues (empty servers), people leaving the game, lag issues, social aspect (10m is easier to bond with than 25m)
- by adding a couple people to your roster you can start raiding, having to double your roster is just a massive task

Going 20m is just not feasible for 10m guilds. The reality is that most guilds are 10m, whether you like that or not.

Agree. Going up to 15m would be much more feasible, as most 10m heroic guilds already have 2-3 backups. It creates a shitty situation for 25m guilds, but at least they don't have to pull players out of thin air like 10m guilds would need to for 20m.

[Rapti]

Perfect comp. 2 tanks, 4-6 healers, 12-14 dps.
No more 10 v 25 etc. Finally proper compete and races.
Splitting the race into 2 was stupid.

[Deleted]

Perfect comp. 2 tanks, 4-6 healers, 12-14 dps.
No more 10 v 25 etc. Finally proper compete and races.
Splitting the race into 2 was stupid.

awesome for all the 10man guilds that don´t have enough raiders and for the 25m guilds that have to ditch 5people, yay! -.-

[GKLeatherCraft]

I don't think it matters if it's 15 or 20, either way 10man have to get 5 or 10 people, and either way 25 man has to lose 5 or 10 people, swapping it doesn't help, inf act it's better as it is, at least with 10man guilds they can just recruit more, but if you're a 25man HC raiding guild, chances are you're close, and they're going to have to cut out people now, which is going to be nice for anyone involved.

[Mirri]

awesome for all the 10man guilds that don´t have enough raiders and for the 25m guilds that have to ditch 5people, yay! -.-

It probably wasn't about the race - Blizz doesn't give a shit about it.
This change was mostly to enable content development for a single raid size for the hardest difficulty.

[Deleted]

Yes it had to happen.
No it is not the right way to do it.

20 will kill heroic raiding:

this change basically means destroying half of the current 10m guilds who raid heroics, in the best possible scenario
If 30% of the guilds survives the cut it will be a lot:
- people who raid heroic content on 10m but cba with 20m for several reasons will leave (game or guild)
- most 10m will try to recruit but those players need to come from other guilds
- if 1 guild manages to make the transition through recruiting it can destroy 3 other guilds, since it's not a 1:1 process
- think about the social aspect: for every heroic 10m group actively raiding there are a bunch of people playing this game as well (socials, friends, ex raiders who are used to their guild name), take that away and you create a situation where many casual people have little reason to play any longer

15m seems to be a much more healthier number:

- there are way more 10m guilds doing heroic than 25m guilds
- there is a reason why most 25m guilds have gone 10m to begin with: recruiting issues (empty servers), people leaving the game, lag issues, social aspect (10m is easier to bond with than 25m)
- by adding a couple people to your roster you can start raiding, having to double your roster is just a massive task

Going 20m is just not feasible for 10m guilds. The reality is that most guilds are 10m, whether you like that or not.

This^ 10char

[Deleted]

Yes it had to happen.
No it is not the right way to do it.

20 will kill heroic raiding:

this change basically means destroying half of the current 10m guilds who raid heroics, in the best possible scenario
If 30% of the guilds survives the cut it will be a lot:
- people who raid heroic content on 10m but cba with 20m for several reasons will leave (game or guild)
- most 10m will try to recruit but those players need to come from other guilds
- if 1 guild manages to make the transition through recruiting it can destroy 3 other guilds, since it's not a 1:1 process
- think about the social aspect: for every heroic 10m group actively raiding there are a bunch of people playing this game as well (socials, friends, ex raiders who are used to their guild name), take that away and you create a situation where many casual people have little reason to play any longer

15m seems to be a much more healthier number:

- there are way more 10m guilds doing heroic than 25m guilds
- there is a reason why most 25m guilds have gone 10m to begin with: recruiting issues (empty servers), people leaving the game, lag issues, social aspect (10m is easier to bond with than 25m)
- by adding a couple people to your roster you can start raiding, having to double your roster is just a massive task

Going 20m is just not feasible for 10m guilds. The reality is that most guilds are 10m, whether you like that or not.

Completely agree with this, I was hoping they would reveal 15m raiding as a new concept. Being a 10m heroic raider myself Im a bit put off from the idea of having to recruit for 20m, seeing as its already hard enough as it is right now for 10m.

[Blood Fox]

No more 10 v 25 etc. Finally proper compete and races.
Splitting the race into 2 was stupid.

raiding should be about letting people see the hardest content levels,

not about a e-sports race, holy shit.

[Ninotchka]

15 would be so much better than 20.

[Deleted]

It probably wasn't about the race - Blizz doesn't give a shit about it.
This change was mostly to enable content development for a single raid size for the hardest difficulty.

Exactly. Regardless of how you put it, some mechanics are easier to deal with in one particlar raid size, while others are easier to deal with in the other raid size. Merging them into one makes content development easier, and should make it more engaging to us, the players, aswell.

As for 10 mans - you have several months to gather 10 new people. In the meantime you can easily run 2x 10-mans and just mix people up to make sure everyone gets a feel for each other. There's no reason to panic - it's not like you have to just up your roster by 10 people in one day. Or you have a couple of months to find a suitable merge partner. However you would choose to attack the problem.

As for 25-mans, I've always found that there are always a couple of people who quit at new expansions anyway, downsizing to 20-man shouldn't be such a huge deal.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one who fails to see how this kills hc raiding? HC is now flex. This is an additional tier up. More than likely, 3/4 of the current hc guilds won't be able to compete in these raids anyways. The remainder will be able to merge as necessary for the new difficulty presented, that actually requires a set amount of players.

[Felocity]

Completely agree with this, I was hoping they would reveal 15m raiding as a new concept. Being a 10m heroic raider myself Im a bit put off from the idea of having to recruit for 20m, seeing as its already hard enough as it is right now for 10m.

What alot of people are ignorant to is that recruiting now and recruiting in 6.0 will be different.
"recruitment is hard for 10 mans right now how will we ever find 5-6 more people?"

Well in 6.0 way more people will be looking for guilds as 25s begin to cut down.So it wont be THAT difficult to build your roster at the end of the expansion.

[Trix]

It's a great change. Bye bye 10 man guilds

- - - Updated - - -

It's a great change. Bye bye 10 man guilds

Lol at some people thinking it kills heroic guilds, lots of 10 man guilds will just merge or recruit.

Recruiting will be easier as it is just now, because there is now one raid size, not two.

[Blood Fox]

What alot of people are ignorant to is that recruiting now and recruiting in 6.0 will be different.
"recruitment is hard for 10 mans right now how will we ever find 5-6 more people?"

Well in 6.0 way more people will be looking for guilds as 25s begin to cut down.So it wont be THAT difficult to build your roster at the end of the expansion.

oh a high pop server... shure

[Reinaerd]

Ah looks like we all get to drink from the negativity koolaid, imma pass on that.
Im in a Heroic raiding guild, 28 steady people up to 30 on our weekly roster, guess what, benching happens and no1 cares.
We all get our shot at every single boss eventually, and content is usually long enough for us to grow bored with it.

Only see an upside, i wont feel forced to attend 100% of the raids, now i can occasionally sit a night out without feeling guilty.
After the progression raiding ofc.

[Frozendekay]

Am I the only one who fails to see how this kills hc raiding? HC is now flex. This is an additional tier up. More than likely, 3/4 of the current hc guilds won't be able to compete in these raids anyways. The remainder will be able to merge as necessary for the new difficulty presented, that actually requires a set amount of players.

It's the same difficulty as current heroics. New heroic = normal now, Mythic = current heroic. Been confirmed by GC on twitter.

And yea, I think it had to happen. I'd hate 15, 20 is a good number I think. 10 mans can either merge or grab people who are coming from current 25 mans.

First few weeks/months will be rough for sure, then it's gonna be a lot better.

[Deleted]

The mechanics can now vary much more than previously when they had to give 10m roughly the same experience as 25m.
It's so much better this way.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one who fails to see how this kills hc raiding? HC is now flex. This is an additional tier up. More than likely, 3/4 of the current hc guilds won't be able to compete in these raids anyways. The remainder will be able to merge as necessary for the new difficulty presented, that actually requires a set amount of players.

It's not an additional level of heroic raiding. They are only renaming current difficulties. So in today's raiding terms we'll have:

LFR scaling 10-25 man
Flex scaling 10-25 man (renamed to Normal)
Normal scaling 10-25 man (renamed to Heroic)
Heroic static 20 man (renamed to Mythic)

Look at Ghostcrawler's twitter post. Look at the screenshot of how the raids correlate to each other. Listen to them say on the panel that they are combining the two existing heroic modes 10H and 25H into a new 20 mythic mode. The only reason there's confusion is because they're renaming the difficulties. There is no new difficulty level.