Blizzcon: Warlock chat (NEW TALENTS IN FIRST POST!)

[Gohzerlock]

FAIL?!?!

If that accursed mechanic leaves the game then the world might eventually become a brighter place. I mean, dot management is not even "gameplay" when all you do is look after so much micromanagement.

Removing dot snapshotting is not a good idea.... seriously.

[Deleted]

FAIL?!?!

If that accursed mechanic leaves the game then the world might eventually become a brighter place. I mean, dot management is not even "gameplay" when all you do is look after so much micromanagement.

I'm not even sure why would one play a Warlock (or another DoT class to some extent) if they don't like or are overwhelmed by this kind of gameplay. It's really strange to see posts like this pop all around, especially on this specific class forum.

[RaoBurning]

they have given hunters gosac, warr's life tap, moonkin a channel ability and priests a doom ability

Shhh, you're ruining my snark.

[deviantcultist]

I'm not even sure why would one play a Warlock (or another DoT class to some extent) if they don't like or are overwhelmed by this kind of gameplay. It's really strange to see posts like this pop all around, especially on this specific class forum.

1)Someone might like DoTs on their own
2)Another might like the flavor/lore of the class
3)Or might simply find it annoying and outdated and not something bad enough for them to not play the class

[Unoshi]

not really, I'd prefer to get an unique new class. demon hunters just can't be unique with the niches they fit in. whatever they could be is already filled by warlocks, rogues, or even hunters if you start stretching into diablo territory.

I dont see how any of these classes can be called demon hunters, specially not the Warlock as he/she uses demons to fight by his her side. a Demon hunter is a hunter who kills demon. just like a paladin is a vanquisher of evil. So is a Demon Hunter but instead of hunting undeads and everything else called evil. they just hunt Demons. but i do agree with you of getting a entirely new class or race.

Edit: A Hunter from Diablo that would specify as a Demon Hunter

[Mazda]

They announced the removal of reforging today. GG breakpoints.

[Count Zero]

They announced the removal of reforging today. GG breakpoints.

Wasn't there talk about breakpoints being gone ?

[xskarma]

So snapshotting goes the way of the Dodo, as allready said in this thread. HATE seeing it go. Hope to hear what they have in mind to keep Affliction especially competetive and engaging to play.

The details:

Dot snapshotting translated into mods telling you when to press the buttons.

Said by GC on twitter.

Source: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...28461132152832

[Deleted]

I hope they bring Shadow Bolt one button spamming back so everyone is happy

[Deleted]

Wasn't there talk about breakpoints being gone ?

There was a thread about a conversation with some designer that said breakpoints were going, but GC explicitly said in the blizzcon panel that haste and crit breakpoints would still exist, which seems odd when reforging is gone.

HATE seeing it go. Hope to hear what they have in mind to keep Affliction especially competetive and engaging to play.

Like they did when ROF was removed? (Not that I'm against a ground target AOE being removed, but holy christ did it make destro boring)

I hope they bring Shadow Bolt one button spamming back so everyone is happy

wat

[Deleted]

wat

Sry, just venting. Back in the old days warlocks were brought in raid for CoE and they had only one spell in rotation, Shadow Bolt. I like some changes like items give primary stat for your current spec, which makes hybrids classes and item distribution much better than currently etc... Well I can also live without reforging, but things like no more dot snapshotting. which every warlock spec currently does, makes game more dull and less reacting to anything and gives great players less room to shine.

And that GC tweet is just stupid, the same principle applies to anything that requires reacting to procs for more dps, not just dot spells. Oh, thats probably why they are giving us static trinkets in next exp.

[Deleted]

Sry, just venting. Back in the old days warlocks were brought in raid for CoE and they had only one spell in rotation, Shadow Bolt. I like some changes like items give primary stat for your current spec, which makes hybrids classes and item distribution much better than currently etc... Well I can also live without reforging, but things like no more dot snapshotting. which every warlock spec currently does, makes game more dull and less reacting to anything and gives great players less room to shine.

And that GC tweet is just stupid, the same principle applies to anything that requires reacting to procs for more dps, not just dot spells. Oh, thats probably why they are giving us static trinkets in next exp.

Oh right, yeah - I'm fully onboard with you there. I remember SB spamming in TBC and being generally useless in classic, wasn't much fun (though thankfully in classic I was too new and casual to know that and enjoyed myself, despite my ineptitude).

I thought it was some snarky response at the people wanting SB back instead of MG, which seemed absurd. But yeah, the class really doesn't need any more simplifying, the only reason I can kinda see an argument for removing DOT snapshotting is because warlock numbers were too high this expansion, but DOT snapshotting isn't the root of that problem, blizzards insane ilevels and ludicrous trinkets were the problem, and the ilevel squish should be addressing that.

[Kirroth]

Reasons why the Devs probably aren't fond of snapshotting as a central mechanic:

1. Snapshotting creates a massive skill divide. The ideal skill distribution is a bell curve, where people can quickly pick up enough basics to deal average damage and slowly ramp up small but noticeable DPS improvements as they master the class. Snapshotting produces the opposite result, with sub-standard performance if you haven't mastered it and troublesomely high results if you have, with a large gap in between.

2. Snapshotting is an unintuitive mechanic. Nothing in the game warns you about it, nothing in the UI lets you keep track of it. As GC pointed out you need to read a class guide and install an addon to take advantage of snapshotting, and after that half the game is to push the button when your addon tells you to.

3. Snapshotting is difficult to balance. It's what turns normally inoffensive trinkets like Nevermelting Ice Crystal or UVLS into overpowered must-haves. It triggers hot fixes when the community figures out a way to stack one too many buffs together or stretch a short proc's effect for a longer duration. Either design is forced into constraints by the dangers of too-large snapshots, or something slips through and has to get nerfbatted down after the fact.

None of this is new, of course. I was writing about them being an issue for Warlocks back in 2010. But they're all still reasons why snapshotting is a mechanic with severe issues. If your fear is that the class would lack sufficient complexity without it, complexity can always be added back in new places. There's no reason Warlocks (and Shadow Priests, and Balance Druids) have to remain tied to snapshotting specifically.

[The Jazzler]

Reasons why the Devs probably aren't fond of snapshotting as a central mechanic:

1. Snapshotting creates a massive skill divide. The ideal skill distribution is a bell curve, where people can quickly pick up enough basics to deal average damage and slowly ramp up small but noticeable DPS improvements as they master the class. Snapshotting produces the opposite result, with sub-standard performance if you haven't mastered it and troublesomely high results if you have, with a large gap in between.

2. Snapshotting is an unintuitive mechanic. Nothing in the game warns you about it, nothing in the UI lets you keep track of it. As GC pointed out you need to read a class guide and install an addon to take advantage of snapshotting, and after that half the game is to push the button when your addon tells you to.

3. Snapshotting is difficult to balance. It's what turns normally inoffensive trinkets like Nevermelting Ice Crystal or UVLS into overpowered must-haves. It triggers hot fixes when the community figures out a way to stack one too many buffs together or stretch a short proc's effect for a longer duration. Either design is forced into constraints by the dangers of too-large snapshots, or something slips through and has to get nerfbatted down after the fact.

None of this is new, of course. I was writing about them being an issue for Warlocks back in 2010. But they're all still reasons why snapshotting is a mechanic with severe issues. If your fear is that the class would lack sufficient complexity without it, complexity can always be added back in new places. There's no reason Warlocks (and Shadow Priests, and Balance Druids) have to remain tied to snapshotting specifically.

Snapshotting isnt really the issue as is the default UI being annoyingly subtle with those procs, short time frames, and constantly changing buff placements. Any player with Weak auras, power auras, or tellmewhen has no issue with snapshotting dots. There is no skill level in this other then learning which snapshot to prioritize.

If they wanted trinkets to be a dps boost and not have them be a determining factor in player skill they would just passively raise stats and or spell damage.

Without snapshotting, there is no real reason to differ in your rotation.

On another note though, I would like to see Demonology leveled out a bit or changed. The flow of demonology right now is pitiful, I really like the play style of demo in 5.3 with UVLS. Great openings, exciting procs, exciting to meta during trinks, the spec as far as fun gameplay was at its best. As it stands, non meta damage is pitiful in every regard, and meta form damage is medicore at best. The demonic fury generation is extremely clunky. The level 100 talent for chaotic resources is interesting, however I feel like 30% damage reductions is horrible. I definitely think permanent meta for demonology is a good thing, just give the spec a rotation to work around.

Id like to see some overhaul to destro as well, Chaos bolts are fun, but they gameplay of destro is just boring and mind numbingly stupid. Id like to see immolation be a passive dot effect, almost like ignite. Id like to see more shadowflame spells weaved into destro or have shadowflame dots for destro. I think some variety to its rotation would do it justice, and some dot abilitys weaved into it's ember consuming abilitys would deal it justice for a nuke spec


As far as affliction goes, I would like them to remove malefic grasp and just keep Drain Soul as the filler with the same execute abiltiy as Drain soul has currently. I'd like to see more use out of soul shards. Right now soul shards/soulburning is very clunky and somewhat boring. I'd like to see more soulburn damage or soulburned Agonys, corruptions, and unstable afflictions. I'd like to see higher shard gains, and more of our damage tied to this resource and its use rather then just recasting dots to snapshot and spamming malefic grasp.

[Deleted]

Reasons why the Devs probably aren't fond of snapshotting as a central mechanic:

1. Snapshotting creates a massive skill divide. The ideal skill distribution is a bell curve, where people can quickly pick up enough basics to deal average damage and slowly ramp up small but noticeable DPS improvements as they master the class. Snapshotting produces the opposite result, with sub-standard performance if you haven't mastered it and troublesomely high results if you have, with a large gap in between.

2. Snapshotting is an unintuitive mechanic. Nothing in the game warns you about it, nothing in the UI lets you keep track of it. As GC pointed out you need to read a class guide and install an addon to take advantage of snapshotting, and after that half the game is to push the button when your addon tells you to.

3. Snapshotting is difficult to balance. It's what turns normally inoffensive trinkets like Nevermelting Ice Crystal or UVLS into overpowered must-haves. It triggers hot fixes when the community figures out a way to stack one too many buffs together or stretch a short proc's effect for a longer duration. Either design is forced into constraints by the dangers of too-large snapshots, or something slips through and has to get nerfbatted down after the fact.

None of this is new, of course. I was writing about them being an issue for Warlocks back in 2010. But they're all still reasons why snapshotting is a mechanic with severe issues. If your fear is that the class would lack sufficient complexity without it, complexity can always be added back in new places. There's no reason Warlocks (and Shadow Priests, and Balance Druids) have to remain tied to snapshotting specifically.

1. It doesn't make a massive divide unless blizzard are stupid and make grossly overpowered trinkets, which even without snapshotting will do that. Sparkuggz made a post about RPPM trinkets illustrating a rogue at the top and bottom of the damage meters entirely because one got lucky on the dice, and rogues aren't doing that because of dots. I'd much rather have a difference in numbers caused by someone playing better than me rather than someone simply lucking out, but even then - make saner trinkets and you'll have no problem, make insane trinkets and you'll have problems regardless of dots.

2. How is that different to any other form of minmaxing? You don't NEED to abuse dot snapshots to play affliction, it's just extra damage via minmaxing. Complaining that it's not thrust in your face and explained is like asking to remove haunt because the game doesn't tell you when to bank shards and cast in procs, or that holy power needs reworking because it's not explained how it's optimal to use builders over finishers unless capping / other minmaxing reasons.

Minmaxing is going above and beyond, the game barely tells you what your rotation consists of.

and no, you do NOT need a bloody addon for it, you didn't have affdots in WOTLK or Cata.
If you were using dot snapshots then, you know this.
If you weren't, then you can go back to doing that, it worked even if it wasn't optimal.
Additionally, iirc - doesn't one of Blood Legions warlocks flat out not use affdots, she just uses her brain? That's what I was doing up until mid-TOT when the metagem / procs coming out of our ass made me decide I might as well make my job easier. People will be arguing dots need to be removed at this rate because it's prompted them to download an addon for dot tracking.

3. Why weren't warlocks grossly unbalanced in any other expansion then? They seem to have had almost zero problems with it until recently, how many years has that been?

[walp]

I just don't get why they want to change the entire game mechanics because of 1 unbalanced spec.

[Mormolyce]

Why not let both have it? There are plenty of cases in game of classes where 2/3 specs have a spell or buff. Change some of the functionality, sure, but no reason both specs couldn't metamorphose.

I doubt it happens, though. Adding and balancing a new class is challenge enough, and that's just 3 specs. I see no reason to think that adding 10ish new specs would not be exponentially more difficult. Sure, the chassis is there, but how does a warlock tank function differently from, say, a DK or Warrior? Worse, how does a rogue tank work differently than a monk or Druid? I have no such pie-in-the-sky expectations. But yes, it would be cool.

I can think of exactly one example, Nature's Swiftness, and it's a pretty minor ability. Blizzard really does not like to double up, especially not on a major iconic class/spec mechanic.

- - - Updated - - -

Reasons why the Devs probably aren't fond of snapshotting as a central mechanic:

1. Snapshotting creates a massive skill divide. The ideal skill distribution is a bell curve, where people can quickly pick up enough basics to deal average damage and slowly ramp up small but noticeable DPS improvements as they master the class. Snapshotting produces the opposite result, with sub-standard performance if you haven't mastered it and troublesomely high results if you have, with a large gap in between.

2. Snapshotting is an unintuitive mechanic. Nothing in the game warns you about it, nothing in the UI lets you keep track of it. As GC pointed out you need to read a class guide and install an addon to take advantage of snapshotting, and after that half the game is to push the button when your addon tells you to.

3. Snapshotting is difficult to balance. It's what turns normally inoffensive trinkets like Nevermelting Ice Crystal or UVLS into overpowered must-haves. It triggers hot fixes when the community figures out a way to stack one too many buffs together or stretch a short proc's effect for a longer duration. Either design is forced into constraints by the dangers of too-large snapshots, or something slips through and has to get nerfbatted down after the fact.

None of this is new, of course. I was writing about them being an issue for Warlocks back in 2010. But they're all still reasons why snapshotting is a mechanic with severe issues. If your fear is that the class would lack sufficient complexity without it, complexity can always be added back in new places. There's no reason Warlocks (and Shadow Priests, and Balance Druids) have to remain tied to snapshotting specifically.

It's also mathy, boring and unfun.

[Jetjaguar]

I don't mind the removal of snapshotting as long they bring in something for affliction that doesn't make it a completely brainless spec. I think Demo and Destro have already evolved beyond snapshotting dots and have moved more towards "snapshot burst" and while you could say affliction has that along the lines of haunt spam I feel like its less involved since you're not really spamming a hard hitting ability or going godmode, but rather maintaining a stronger debuff.

[lockedout]

Sry, just venting. Back in the old days warlocks were brought in raid for CoE

Not the insane amount of damage they did?

[Urgganzish]

I can think of exactly one example, Nature's Swiftness, and it's a pretty minor ability. Blizzard really does not like to double up, especially not on a major iconic class/spec mechanic.

- - - Updated - - -



It's also mathy, boring and unfun.

How is that un fun? its what separates the good players from the bad ones, also its called Weak Auras...use it, as long as you know what buffs are up its easy.