(If you want faster queues, be nice to your tanks!)

[Deleted]

Whilst acceptable for dps or healers to turn up. A tank should actually know what they are doing. Tanks that turn up the moment they have ilvl, know very little or nothing about the boss, and/or generally bad, can and should expect some abuse. Its no fun queueing for a long time as dps, why should we tolerate it. I have never had a tank ask about tactics/advice, generally if they are bad they are immediately on the defensive. Knowing full well they can requeue swiftly.

I'm not saying that all tanks are bad, same can be said with healers and dps. Bad tanks will screw a raid over, healers and dps do not. If noob tanks come in with the attitude to learn and be humble, they deserve to be treated with respect. Problem is i have yet to meet a tank that is like this good, bad or ugly.

[Deleted]

I said if that is the reason they don't do it. If you can't handle being called names over the internet then sorry, I have little to say to such people. How do they deal with it irl? Stay home from school or work?

Try calling me names here in mmo-c and let's see how long it takes for them to ban you.

Now.. we should have the same system in WoW - if you insult me, you get banned. Unfortunately they don't do anything because protecting the abusers has becoming more important than protecting the abused.

[Felfurion]

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You are giving up something you enjoy due other people calling you names over the internet, I call that a weakling.

I'd call that smart , as it's a game that's supposed to be fun, not leading a bunch of ungrateful abusive scumbag kids that like to bully people for fun in a game.

You'd have to be pretty retarded to sit there and take it and let them walk over you, way to show them hey sarac - now that's being weak.

[yajinni]

Holy crap. I cant believe there are people saying hey, if they are desrepectful and call you a noob just deal with it.
Yes tanks are dealing with it. They are dealing with it by not tanking for those assholes by not queueing for lfr.

Now the problem is that queue times are getting retarded because the tanks dont want to tank it.
So your solution is to say fuck the tanks and tell them to accept the abuse? Yea no thanks. My gaming experince, i decide what i want to do with it.

And for all the idiots that say suck it up, how about you roll a tank and suck it up. But yea i am sure you dont want to deal with that inconvenience.

LFR has increased in its toxic enviorment. Its no wonder people dont want to do it. Only reason i do it on my 560 monk tank is because i am working on the legendary quest line, which thank god 1 more rune and i will be done with it this week. I plan to never touch LFR again.

I dont see why people think the solution is just deal with it or get thicker skin when a better solution is to get rid of the assholes. You guys are what ruin the game for others. No one being nice has ruined the game.

[Kagecamia]

I said if that is the reason they don't do it. If you can't handle being called names over the internet then sorry, I have little to say to such people. How do they deal with it irl? Stay home from school or work?

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You are giving up something you enjoy due other people calling you names over the internet, I call that a weakling.

If it was the final drop to make you stop doing it that's a different thing. I'm talking about people who stop doing it purely for the reason of getting called names.

It just seems like you are spewing random crap about other people and assuming the worst despite not knowing anything about them. Grow a pair? Maybe you should learn to not jump to conclusions so quickly.

So you believe that by leaving a group because people are calling you names is being a weakling huh? I hate to see how you handle that in real life. Treat others with respect and respect will come towards you. At least that is how it works in the real world most times. People who act like arrogant jerks are quickly put in their place.

People may treat me like crap but should I really spend my time getting this idiot or these idiots gear?

But hey what do I care about what you say? You're just some prick I will never meet in real life. So why the fuck would I care what you think?

[yajinni]

No it isn't. You make friends the same way, you socialise the same way, you get in discussions the same way and you deal with problems the same way.

And ofc everybody is free to do with it as they wish, I just find it weak to give up something you enjoy because of 1 small issue.

Small issue? Where massive groups of people complain on all sides of the issue and even blizz has to tell people hey! dont be jackasses. Be nicer and the problem will fix on its own? I dont see how its a small issue when it affects 1000s of people. And its not just one issue. Its cascaded into multiple problems, causes, and effects.
No one here will be impressed by you trying to act hard. I am sure there are tons of people out there that find you weak for playing 1 game. Address the actual issue or dont troll here.

[Kagecamia]

Holy crap. I cant believe there are people saying hey, if they are desrepectful and call you a noob just deal with it.
Yes tanks are dealing with it. They are dealing with it by not tanking for those assholes by not queueing for lfr.

Now the problem is that queue times are getting retarded because the tanks dont want to tank it.
So your solution is to say fuck the tanks and tell them to accept the abuse? Yea no thanks. My gaming experince, i decide what i want to do with it.

Give this guy a medal. He essentially pinpointed the issue with tanks atm.

[thelordpsy]

I'm not buying it. Everyone I know ignores chat, what makes tanks such weaklings they can't do the same. To all tanks that don't queue lfr for this reason: dear god, grow a pair.

Last time I ran LFR was 6 months ago. The other tank in the group refused to taunt off of me or pick up adds. When I died from being forced to solo tank a 2-tank encounter, I was called a noob and votekicked from the group. I don't give a shit what people say about me, they can scream insults continuously in chat if they want, but there's not much you can do when you get instakicked.

[Resentful]

I'll be nice if you do your jobs properly and I'll even instruct you but if you fail at it for like 12th time then I'm going to be a dick in most cases -.-

[Orange Joe]

I'll be nice if you do your jobs properly and I'll even instruct you but if you fail at it for like 12th time then I'm going to be a dick in most cases -.-

Lies!!!! you piss everyone off :P

[Forgettable]

I actually got verbally abused for trying to explain fights to the raid as a tank. There were about 3-4 people who just would not shut up, called me names, wanted me to pull... And then eventually pulled themselves because I was "too slow" because I wanted to 1 shot the fight with everyone knowing what to do initially. I let the boss kill them and wipe the raid, while I survived (It was siegecrafter so I just jumped on the conveyor and lived) and then mass rezzed the raid. The idiots argued some more, I finished explaining the fight. Then we pulled and 1 shot it. Same thing happened on Paragons, and then I skipped Garrosh because I didn't need him.

I was genuinely surprised to find those douches because probably upwards of 90% of my LFD/LFR experiences are douche-free because I do my job properly.

[Resentful]

Lies!!!! you piss everyone off :P

Okay most of the time but I swear I have a little humanity in me! :P

[nightfalls]

You are giving up something you enjoy due other people calling you names over the internet, I call that a weakling.

"Enjoy LFR" rofl what an oxymoron.

Listen kid, if you don't even play anymore maybe you should not give opinions. If you actually played even once a month in LFR you'd quickly understand why nobody, nobody enjoys LFR whether abuse or not.

[Taojnhy]

My point from earlier, and one I think people need to get in their heads: No shit, the community is toxic. No shit, "if people were nice" the world would be better. That doesn't take a brain to come up with.

The real problem is, that "everyone needs to be nice" thing just isn't going to happen. At least not without massive community changes (including "karma" type systems, expanded vote kicks, etc.) and even then there would need to be massive safeguards against abuse.

YOU "not being a douche" in the grand scheme of things does absolutely nothing in the long run. With the 25 player nature of LFR and "diffused responsibility" it's far easier to invent a reason to votekick than to try to "fix" a bad player since 1) there's so many of them and 2) trying to do the latter will more than likely just get YOU kicked for "being an elitist prick" or something.

There was a reason despite requiring 1 tank / 5 players (instead of 2 / 25 for LFR) queues were a lot shorter and players were a lot happier in HoT heroics (main way to catch-up gear for Normal DS) than LFR (ONLY way to catch-up gear for Flexible SoO). Because with 5 players it was easier to fix bad players, and because the instance was quick and relatively trouble free so you'd actually expect to finish.

And if you're only taking 10 minutes, an extra 5 to "walk a bad player through getting better" is no big deal. If the run takes 60 minutes then taking an extra 30 minutes to walk 5 bad players through getting better and dealing with them collectively going deaf and calling you "elitist asshole" is both harder and actually less effective than just vote-kicking, finger-pointing, and/or blame-gaming.

It's the system, stupid.

There is a (BIG FUCKING) difference between a preformed group with a leader and a random match-made group of people you'll likely never interact with again (duh?).

Listen kid, if you don't even play anymore maybe you should not give opinions. If you actually played even once a month in LFR you'd quickly understand why nobody, nobody enjoys LFR whether abuse or not.

Your general tone does very little to differentiate you from "toxic".

[Deleted]

So basically, tanks that are shitty are upset that someone calls them shitty when there are dps and healers that are equally shitty but no one calls them out on it.
This just highlights the problem with LFR, that a majority of underperforming players expect a minority of competent players to carry them through an instance at the fastest pace possible. The main issue that I see is that LFR is too hard for the majority of players doing it.

One solution is to remove any boss ability/mechanic that requires a player to actively use cd's or having to think before pressing buttons. They should remove stacking debuffs so no tank need to taunt, they should remove having to move out of fire, dispelling etc. That is the only way that all players in a raid can contribute on equal terms.

Another solution is to go the other direction and make LFR much harder and place a higher importance on dps and healers, that way if a player is underperforming, regardless if they are tanks/dps or healers, will get called out and kicked from the raid.

[dubious_doomhammer]

95% of the people that do LFR, tanks included, don't bother to watch a video or read a strat before they queue. They go in blind and expect people to explain the fights to them without taking ANY initiative - so what, its LFR you might say, but if it was so easy and mechanics didn't matter, there wouldn't be any need for determination and determination stacks wouldn't get so high and more tanks would queue.

What would REALLY help LFR is people being self sufficient and learning wtf to do before queuing (or at least a pretty good general idea of what to do). Oh also, the "I have a real life and cant play all the time or watch videos or read strategies like you nerds", is bullshit ... if you have 2 hours to wipe on each boss, you have 20 minutes to watch a video and read a strat.

If I tank an LFR and see people AFK auto attacking, botting, or just being shitty (dps mostly) I leave. If I have to focus on what I'm doing, moving boss, picking up adds, watching stacks to taunt, blah blah, and you aren't? Then there's absolutely 0 reason for me to stay and you can enjoy your hour queue.

[Jessicka]

Hence, weakling in matter of dealing with issues.

Well if its making something you enjoy unenjoyable, then its ceases to be enjoyable, so you remove yourself from the unenjoyable situation and do flex instead. Tanks are doing that in droves, nothing whatsoever to do with "growing a pair".

[dubious_doomhammer]

One solution is to remove any boss ability/mechanic that requires a player to actively use cd's or having to think before pressing buttons. They should remove stacking debuffs so no tank need to taunt, they should remove having to move out of fire, dispelling etc. That is the only way that all players in a raid can contribute on equal terms.

That isn't a solution, that just exacerbates the current problem.

[Louis CK]

One solution is to remove any boss ability/mechanic that requires a player to actively use cd's or having to think before pressing buttons. They should remove stacking debuffs so no tank need to taunt, they should remove having to move out of fire, dispelling etc. That is the only way that all players in a raid can contribute on equal terms.

I've seen a handful of LFR's where the tank ignores literally everything and the boss still dies without a hitch. Few weeks ago was on Dark Shaman and the tank stood still the entire time, though tornadoes, bad stuff on the ground, walls, everything. Sucked to be melee, but even that guy didn't get kicked, just moved on to the next boss.

[Deleted]

That isn't a solution, that just exacerbates the current problem.

That's my point, tanks that are shitty don't want to get called shitty. So level the playing field so they also can afk/autoattack and still tank successfully.

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I've seen a handful of LFR's where the tank ignores literally everything and the boss still dies without a hitch. Few weeks ago was on Dark Shaman and the tank stood still the entire time, though tornadoes, bad stuff on the ground, walls, everything. Sucked to be melee, but even that guy didn't get kicked, just moved on to the next boss.

Exactly, people don't care how anyone else is performing as long as bosses die at a reasonable pace.