Should I use Arcane shot during LnL - when Focus capped. (Survival)

[sarym13]

Alright so pretty much since forever on my hunter I ensured I am never Focus capped while in combat. However now that I got my 4PC set and using Survival I am getting focus capped during some of the explosive shot chains that the 4PC grants, usually when I get 5+.

Now I am wondering, should I just continue to spam Explosive Shot while LnL is up, even if I am at 100% focus? or should I weave in a Arcane shot when I am capped?

If the answer is no and I should continue to spam Explosive Shot when capped I got one more question. What about Serpent Sting and Black Arrow(With AoC) Should I manually cast each when they're about to fall off, this is while LnL is still up and with charges.

And just to lay it out, as I am sure most of you know, but just pointing it out. The 4PC grants you a 40% chance to not consume a charge of LnL, so this is why I get focus capped at times.

[Kuul]

Yep, keep spamming ES since it's your most damaging skill (even higher than Kill Shot nowadays!). If you wanna go really pro, the only time when you gain DPS by holding of the LnL proc is when you have like 1s left on your trinket proc and if you manage to suit the ES in before the trinket proc dropped, you have massive damage modifiers which will most likely increase your damage of that Explosive Shot by 100%.

Nowadays Black Arrow's biggest job is to grant us LnL procs so basically if you have LnL procs going on and BA has already dropped, keep spamming the ES.
Again if you wanna go pro, apply the new BA when you have 2 sec left on the current target to maximize the proc chances.

SrS isn't a big deal anymore if it's drops. Of course in perfect situtations it's good to not let it drop and always apply it by cobra shot but yeah, don't worry about refresing it manually, it's not a massive dps loss especially if it's has dropped while you were spamming Explosive Shots.

[mistahwilshire]

Being focus capped doesn't mean anything if you're still using your most damaging ability. Spam away.

[timoseewho]

And to add about whether or not to refresh BA during streaks of ES procs, you can download this addon called ExtraCD that tells you when the icd for L&L is up. I like to make sure that I have BA up on the target whenever L&L is proc-able again or when I have a crap ton of procs to snapshot a BA.

Like Kuul's said, you may choose to weave in an AS during the ES spam if your last ES was shot off with some chunky procs and your next would mean not having those procs up (thus refreshing the ES with a much weaker ES).

[Deleted]

Run your character through simcraft and check your most damage per execute abilities. For me its stampede > amoc > dire beast > black arrow > explosive shot. I only use dire beast on patchwerk fights like malkorok and iron jugg though but i use it inbetween lnl procs because it does more damage. The only time that can be a loss of dps is if you get such a long lnl chain that you dont get to use all the procs before lnl icd is up again but that almost never happens. I use black arrow inbetween too when it has less than 2 seconds left.

[Tehterokkar]

And to add about whether or not to refresh BA during streaks of ES procs, you can download this addon called ExtraCD that tells you when the icd for L&L is up. I like to make sure that I have BA up on the target whenever L&L is proc-able again or when I have a crap ton of procs to snapshot a BA.

Really any CD addon can do this, most popular ones are WeakAuras and TellMeWhen.

[Inval1d]

Really any CD addon can do this, most popular ones are WeakAuras and TellMeWhen.

And there's actually a link to a WeakAuras setup in the stickies that includes pretty much everything, including LnL ICD.

LINK

[TJ]

Since they've supposedly changed ES to roll out has anyone noticed that it doesn't? I've fired a few LNL's on dummies and noticed only 8 ticks.

[timoseewho]

Really any CD addon can do this, most popular ones are WeakAuras and TellMeWhen.

Ya for sure, I just pointed out ExtraCD because it requires minimal setup.

[eschatological]

Since they've supposedly changed ES to roll out has anyone noticed that it doesn't? I've fired a few LNL's on dummies and noticed only 8 ticks.

It doesn't add ticks, necessarily. It adds damage to ticks which are already going to happen. That's what's meant when you say a DoT is "rolled into" a prior one.

IE, each ES is 3 ticks, each LnL 3 ES. First tick on first ES expires, next ES lands with 2 ticks left to tick. It'll refresh the DoT to 4 ticks (a DoT's max ticks = normal ticks + 1), the total damage of the ES is calculated as (damage from 2 ticks + damage from 3 new ticks), and then is divided by 4 for the ticks left. So even though you should have 6 ticks, you get 5, with the damage of 6. You fire the third as another tick goes off, 3 ticks remaining, 3 added. The new ES DoT is refreshed to 4 ticks, all 6 ticks are added together, and divided by 4 again, and get a new tick value.

That's why I don't understand this idea of "pro"-ness snapshotting ES on a big buff. Even though a subsequent tick of ES might be lower if you fire a lower-AP ES right after a buff falls off, it should still be preserving the damage of the old ES.

Edit: IOW, there *should be no snapshotting* of ES based on buffs. If that's untrue, I'd like to see evidence.

[TJ]

It doesn't add ticks, necessarily. It adds damage to ticks which are already going to happen. That's what's meant when you say a DoT is "rolled into" a prior one.

IE, each ES is 3 ticks, each LnL 3 ES. First tick on first ES expires, next ES lands with 2 ticks left to tick. It'll refresh the DoT to 4 ticks (a DoT's max ticks = normal ticks + 1), the total damage of the ES is calculated as (damage from 2 ticks + damage from 3 new ticks), and then is divided by 4 for the ticks left. So even though you should have 6 ticks, you get 5, with the damage of 6. You fire the third as another tick goes off, 3 ticks remaining, 3 added. The new ES DoT is refreshed to 4 ticks, all 6 ticks are added together, and divided by 4 again, and get a new tick value.

That's why I don't understand this idea of "pro"-ness snapshotting ES on a big buff. Even though a subsequent tick of ES might be lower if you fire a lower-AP ES right after a buff falls off, it should still be preserving the damage of the old ES.

Edit: IOW, there *should be no snapshotting* of ES based on buffs. If that's untrue, I'd like to see evidence.

Thanks for that explanation, much appreciated.

[Rackfu]

Run your character through simcraft and check your most damage per execute abilities. For me its stampede > amoc > dire beast > black arrow > explosive shot. I only use dire beast on patchwerk fights like malkorok and iron jugg though but i use it inbetween lnl procs because it does more damage. The only time that can be a loss of dps is if you get such a long lnl chain that you dont get to use all the procs before lnl icd is up again but that almost never happens. I use black arrow inbetween too when it has less than 2 seconds left.

While Stampede/AMoC/BA might all have a higher damage per execute, it doesn't mean they should or have to be used on cooldown.

Stampede is pretty much limited, even with the AoC trinket, to 2 or 3 uses per fight and you can plan those out in advance.

AMoC is similar, but you have less flexibility with it and do need to use it ASAP to make sure you don't lose some damage.

Black Arrow can be delayed slightly, if you have an addon or weakaura set up to show you when the cooldown on Lock n' Load is up.


Either way, I agree with everyone that you ignore being focus capped and just continue to spam Explosive Shot until the procs are used up.

[Jantof]

Does the 4pc proc affect the ICD of LnL at all? By that, I mean if the ICD of LnL is 10 seconds, and you (for the sake of example, I know you shouldn't) wait 3 seconds to use ES, and the 4pc procs, does it set the LnL ICD back to 10s, or will it be at 7s?

[rustyboy]

It doesn't add ticks, necessarily. It adds damage to ticks which are already going to happen. That's what's meant when you say a DoT is "rolled into" a prior one.

IE, each ES is 3 ticks, each LnL 3 ES. First tick on first ES expires, next ES lands with 2 ticks left to tick. It'll refresh the DoT to 4 ticks (a DoT's max ticks = normal ticks + 1), the total damage of the ES is calculated as (damage from 2 ticks + damage from 3 new ticks), and then is divided by 4 for the ticks left. So even though you should have 6 ticks, you get 5, with the damage of 6. You fire the third as another tick goes off, 3 ticks remaining, 3 added. The new ES DoT is refreshed to 4 ticks, all 6 ticks are added together, and divided by 4 again, and get a new tick value.

That's why I don't understand this idea of "pro"-ness snapshotting ES on a big buff. Even though a subsequent tick of ES might be lower if you fire a lower-AP ES right after a buff falls off, it should still be preserving the damage of the old ES.

Edit: IOW, there *should be no snapshotting* of ES based on buffs. If that's untrue, I'd like to see evidence.

This is close

Every time ES is refreshed the initial hit will be based on the snapshot when it was cast.

The ticks will be whatever is left prior to the refresh + the new ES divided by 3.

Hit: 51k - Tick 1: 51k
Refreshed:51k - Tick 1: 51k - Tick 2: 51k - Tick 3: 51k

If you lose a buff in between the first and second ES cast?

Hit: 96k - Tick 1: 96k
Refreshed:51k - Tick 1: 66k - Tick 2: 66k - Tick 3: 66k

It gets more interesting if you get another chain

Hit: 96k - Tick 1: 96k
Refreshed: 51k - Tick 1:66
Refreshed: 51k - Tick 1:75 - Tick 2:75 - Tick 3:75
Etc.

If you keep getting LnL procs then you should keep using ES even if a buff drops because the ticks will get bigger the longer the chain is. If your LnL drops just before a buff drops then its better to wait for the larger ticks to finish.