Time to talk about gap closer

[Vash The Stampede]

Here's my idea:
Act of Faith (Replaces Pursuit of Justice)
Instant 24 second cooldown
Instantly leap to the target, suppressing all movement impairing effects on you for 3 seconds.
Can be cast on friendly targets, instead granting them the effect of Hand of Freedom.
Replaces Hand of Freedom. Unaffected by Clemency.

The problem is that Paladins need a gap closer that isn't talented. A talent that Holy can get is inherently weak, since mobility for them would be too powerful. So we need something that only Ret/Prot has access too. Not that Pursuit of Justice needs to die.

I'd gladly trade you my pet's gap closer for a self heal or sacred shield.

You have a heal, spec Beast Mastery and get a spirit pet. You also have deterrence which is better then Divine Shield, let alone Sacred Shield. Also, why did these non Paladins come from to complain?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Also, why did these non Paladins come from to complain?

because trolls can't be paladins, sure as sure.

[Toobad]

So you have multiple self-heals and multiple damage mitigation abilities as baseline, but now you want more mobility too? LOL. Keep dreaming.

You obviously have no idea what you're babbling about, so sit down, and let me enlighten you, son.

Multiple self-heals: Rets have Flas of Light - a fast EXPENSIVE heal. You got 60k mana and the spell costs more than a third. Sure, you can get a TALENT, that after 3 judges will make the spell mana-free, but that's about 16 secs and uptime on target. Also it heals for about 20k on self.

Rest of those "multiple" heals are not really reliable.

Multiple damage mitigation: you need to activate an ability that lasts for 8 seconds, has 1 min CD and need to glyph for it to get same effect that warriors got for switching a stance. Also 5% worse.
Rest is simply not worth mentioning as basically all classes got some sort of minor damage reduction when being struck or using an ability.

But you probably meant THE BUBBLE, didn't you? I don't play much arena, I know it makes holy almost godlike in every other class' eyes, but for ret, it makes you probably the shittiest flag carrier of all, since it drops the flag and is the only "ohshyte" button you got.

The problem is that Paladins need a gap closer that isn't talented. A talent that Holy can get is inherently weak, since mobility for them would be too powerful. So we need something that only Ret/Prot has access too. Not that Pursuit of Justice needs to die.

Exactly. I don't know why everyone tries to invent a talent and not a baseline ability.

I personally use Pursuit of Justice since the new talents were implemented, sure I get laughed a lot for that, but that long-CD sprint and a movement increase that requires a target just won't do it for me.

And I don't see why couldn't we have a passive run speed increase AND a "charge". Just look at the abomination also known as feral druid... 130% passive run speed, sprint, stealth, stuns, cyclone, blink, knockback, self heals, great damage mitigation... And solid damage output. All I can say is wtfblizz?

I was thinking about some sort of "clash" ability... Half-charge, half-deathgrip... But now that BrM monks got that , it's probably out of question... Same as some sort of "rush" that would make you charge through enemies and allies and make you heal/deal dmg/knockback... But monks did it first

[Arcanimus]

The problem is that Paladins need a gap closer that isn't talented. A talent that Holy can get is inherently weak, since mobility for them would be too powerful. So we need something that only Ret/Prot has access too. Not that Pursuit of Justice needs to die.

It wouldn't be all that meaningful as a gap closer to holy, as it'd be intended to only close the gap when used offensively. Only way I could see it being superior for holy is in an edge-case scenario with your heal target outside LoS and a pet/minion/enemy player outside of it.

You have a heal, spec Beast Mastery and get a spirit pet. You also have deterrence which is better then Divine Shield, let alone Sacred Shield. Also, why did these non Paladins come from to complain?

I meant for a spec that I actually play. And no, Deterrence isnt better than Divine Shield by a long shot. Base 3 min cooldown untalented, requires a glyph to reduce damage by a reasonable amount, and prevents ALL offensive abilities for the duration.
This isn't about hunters though. I actually agree that rets need a gap closer instead of a random movement speed increase. I just think it would have to come at the expense of something else.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I actually agree that rets need a gap closer instead of a random movement speed increase. I just think it would have to come at the expense of something else.

enough is e-fething-nough.
no more expense.
We want to have what is ours by right.

it's like "okay, I'll give you two legs, but at the expense of two hands".
no more.

[Vash The Stampede]

And I don't see why couldn't we have a passive run speed increase AND a "charge". Just look at the abomination also known as feral druid... 130% passive run speed, sprint, stealth, stuns, cyclone, blink, knockback, self heals, great damage mitigation... And solid damage output. All I can say is wtfblizz?

This video should explain the reason why Druids get so much. Yea it's not serious, and the video is kinda retarded, but I laugh at the class jokes cause it's true.

enough is e-fething-nough.
no more expense.
We want to have what is ours by right.

it's like "okay, I'll give you two legs, but at the expense of two hands".
no more.

We don't need to sacrifice anything if we already suffer from being sub standard. I think Feral Druid is a good benchmark to compare Rets too, and like Toobad pointed out we're ridiculously out classed compared to them, and they're a hybrid like Paladins where they can fill tank, heal, and dps rolls.

[Morally Grey Storm]

We don't need to sacrifice anything if we already suffer from being sub standard. I think Feral Druid is a good benchmark to compare Rets too, and like Toobad pointed out we're ridiculously out classed compared to them, and they're a hybrid like Paladins where they can fill tank, heal, and dps rolls.

You know what's ironic?

Devs did state quite a few times that Ret in MoP is their benchmark, their standard to which they are tuning other classes to.

[Mormolyce]

Maybe they should just permanently root all ranged classes?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Maybe they should just permanently root all ranged classes?

maybe you should stop posting like that?

[Deleted]

How about an ability similar to the Argent Peacekeeper ability:

Chains of Law (Physical) - Immobilizes an enemy for 5 sec.

[Morally Grey Storm]

How about an ability similar to the Argent Peacekeeper ability:

Chains of Law (Physical) - Immobilizes an enemy for 5 sec.

but what about cast range and cd?
and what about mage spamming snares at you? You'd be forced to cast HoF almost surely.

[Deleted]

but what about cast range and cd?
and what about mage spamming snares at you? You'd be forced to cast HoF almost surely.

If you have not seen it in action, go try to attack a Horde at Argent Grounds, it is basically the original concept for Chains of Ice, but was renamed and doled out to DKs just like the dampening effect on Crusader-strike was reworked and given to DKs and necrotic strike.

So it works just like chains of ice... Hope that answers your question!

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you have not seen it in action, go try to attack a Horde at Argent Grounds, it is basically the original concept for Chains of Ice, but was renamed and doled out to DKs just like the dampening effect on Crusader-strike was reworked and given to DKs and necrotic strike.

So it works just like chains of ice... Hope that answers your question!

so what's about cast range and cd, still?))
I mean, what would you personally suggest?

[Deleted]

so what's about cast range and cd, still?))
I mean, what would you personally suggest?

Since we have HOF give it a reasonable cool down to balance the fact that we do have HOF. Effective range should be that of judgement or there about so say 20/30 yards?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Since we have HOF give it a reasonable cool down to balance the fact that we do have HOF. Effective range should be that of judgement or there about so say 20/30 yards?

reasonable cooldown is a very subjective thing.
for me, it would be reasonable to put a 20 sec cd, not longer, but probably a bit shorter.

about range, 20 yards? really? no less than 30 yards, otherwise it wont work at all.

Just like Emancipate.
Yeah, we have a tool to get rid of all the snares, but it just doesnt work.

[Vash The Stampede]

How about an ability similar to the Argent Peacekeeper ability:

Chains of Law (Physical) - Immobilizes an enemy for 5 sec.

One thing this expansion has taught me is that nobody likes to lose control of their character. The amount of stuns, cc, and fears going off is enough to cause people to rage quit. I'd rather see players run around chasing each other all day long with slows, then to see another cc or immobilizer.

[ipoststuff]

Root is hardly a loss of control though.

[Deleted]

@ Storm the Sorrow

You are shooting down any and all ideas, even the good ones simply because it isnt an instant gap closer.
Its extremely unlikely palas will ever get one simply because of these simple reasons: In PvE SoL is more then enough for raiding, you need nothing else.

In PvP unlike warriors or rogues (if you are even half good) you cannot be stopped for quite a while, you can constantly push and apply pressure longer than any other class if the need arises.

Emancipate, 2 hand of freedom (with Clemency), Bubble, and a pvp trinket. That at a minimum gives you 20 seconds of free movement, even more if you time emancipate and trinket at correct times to not burn HoF and bubble.

I dont care about a scenario you can pull outa your arse to make these spells unusable. But it is because of those spells you wont get a insta closer.
This is also discounting all the ranged utility you bring in terms of slow's and stuns, (even a fear on the off chance).

[Morally Grey Storm]

@ Storm the Sorrow

@ animelover

You are shooting down any and all ideas

no I don't.
You should check on your reading .

You are shooting down any and all ideas, even the good ones simply because it isnt an instant gap closer.

good ones?
did you see any?

You are shooting down any and all ideas, even the good ones simply because it isnt an instant gap closer.
Its extremely unlikely palas will ever get one simply because of these simple reasons.

what are these "simple reasons" ? I don't see any yet again.

In PvP unlike warriors or rogues (if you are even half good) you cannot be stopped for quite a while, you can constantly push and apply pressure longer than any other class if the need arises.

seriously, have you ever played Ret past 1500 ratings in 3v3? WHat pressure you are speaking of? You mean Judgements for 20k damage tops? Or maybe Exorcisms once in 15 seconds for almost same values? Oh I do see some pressure right here.

And slowly sloughing towards your target is not gap closing, please do get it through your thick skull thank you.

Emancipate, 2 hand of freedom (with Clemency), Bubble, and a pvp trinket. That at a minimum gives you 20 seconds of free movement, even more if you time emancipate and trinket at correct times to not burn HoF and bubble.

So, just 1 question.
What are you gonna do once you've burned down all the abilities you just listed?
Because I yet again fail to see your point with numbering all the pathetic abilities we have.
Emancipate doesn't work against snares in pvp, by the way. You are better off casting HoF most of the time. But I'm sure youre an experienced player and you know the reason why is that.

I dont care about a scenario you can pull outa your arse to make these spells unusable.

well I don't care about scenarios you can pull outta your momma's behind to make those spells usable, sure as sure.

This is also discounting all the ranged utility you bring in terms of slow's and stuns

Ranged utility? You mean, like a ranged slow which lasts omfg 2 seconds and costs a Major glyph slot?
wow, just wow, much powerful. Do you even know that Judgement's (spell that applies slow) cast range is lower than attack/cast range of all the caster classes(the ones we are struggling against the most) ?

Stuns?
We have more than 1?
We can stun from range?
Do you even know that HoJ's cast range if untalented is just 10 yards?
Do you even play Ret?

even a fear on the off chance

and your credibility goes wooosh.

[Deleted]

- snip -

Dont get all hostile and try to pointlessly flame me personally.

I listed all the abilities good or bad that can be used in the situations i said. If you dont like said abilities maybe paladin isnt for you, roll to a warrior they are strong atm, then you can be all you want, then instead complain about something just as tedious like heroic leap having a travel time.