Time to talk about gap closer

[Morally Grey Storm]

Dont get all hostile and try to pointlessly flame me personally.

Don't get all stupid and try to pointlessly troll me personally.

I listed all the abilities good or bad that can be used in the situations i said.

And I asked you one simple question: Have you ever player Ret at actually higher than 1500 ratings in 3v3 to have ANY fething credibility to your words and proclamations?

If you dont like said abilities maybe paladin isnt for you

or maybe it's not for you to decide, sure as sure.

[Jackielope]

Dont get all hostile and try to pointlessly flame me personally.

I listed all the abilities good or bad that can be used in the situations i said. If you dont like said abilities maybe paladin isnt for you, roll to a warrior they are strong atm, then you can be all you want, then instead complain about something just as tedious like heroic leap having a travel time.

The point is that the abilities we have are not good enough. Period. Emancipate and HoF and such only decrease our suck, but they do not increase our awesome.

We need a gap closer, not the pithy little "you can't slow me!" abilities. We must be able to get into range instead of just keeping ourselves from getting further behind while we're being kited. There is no alternative that solves the problem, and the problem must be solved if we are to be competitive.

[Lyese]

Apparently, Storm plays "World of Duelcraft" vs Mages that start at 30 yards away all the time, while the rest of us play World of Warcraft. Teamwork and synergy go a long way in both BGs and Arenas.

[Morally Grey Storm]

apparently, lyese never played Ret in pvp on actually higher than 1500 ratings this season.
Or at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Look at the way melee specs are placed in both arena and RBGs.
Do you not find it peculiar that the ones at the bottom are accidentally the ones without a proper gap closer?
Do you not sense a pattern here?

[Toobad]

Apparently, Storm plays "World of Duelcraft" vs Mages that start at 30 yards away all the time, while the rest of us play World of Warcraft. Teamwork and synergy go a long way in both BGs and Arenas.

Which brings us to the biggest problem of ret pvp - what can a ret do that holy can not?

AoE blind - check
Single-target Stun - check
Double Freedom/Protection - check
Can spec into Repentance/Turn Evil (which btw is the biggest bullshit and was basically nerf for ret) - check
Can spec into Speed of Light/Long Arm of the Law/Pursuit of Justice - check

The only thing ret has that holy does not is improved Hand of Sacrifice, that removes magic debuffs - with 2min CD, but who needs that when holy has a simple 8sec CD dispell, right?

If you really want to get into higher-rated PvP, you basically need to be superior player to all those mages, rogues, hunters and warriors (who, in this season, were suddenly all blessed with incredible amount of skill thus their big leap in the ladders... loljk).

But not only you need to know your class. For example, you need to be a good leader, good target caller, have knowledge of enemy teams and suggest strategy against them and all sorts of stuff, simply because your class sucks and you need to compensate for that with something that others don't have, even if they got their bursts and controls, something that is not affected by blizz nerf-lever.

[Lyese]

apparently, lyese never played Ret in pvp on actually higher than 1500 ratings this season.
Or at all.

I'm simply going to reply using your own words.

I don't, but I did.
I don't need to have multiple kills of Garrderp HC 25 to give my opinion some weight am I.

Which brings us to the biggest problem of ret pvp - what can a ret do that holy can not?

Which is a problem. So many of Ret's tools are baseline and available to all PLDs that they don't really have anything defining aside from lolburst. It's the same in PvE as well, where any PLD can bring HoProt to cleanse normally uncleansable debuffs, HoSac for tank mitigation, and LoH for emergencies. I just don't think homogenizing everything is the answer. Blizz has already commented they wish they hadn't handed out things like interrupts to all classes, and it just escalates into an arms race of "I charge you root I trinket you stun I bubble you dispell"

[purebalance]

Yeah, I agree. I simply think it should just be a Ret version of speed of light though. Even with a 25 second CD or something it would be really nice, without stepping on other classes toes. (Warriors can keep their 12 second mobility and DK's can keep their position-altering gap closer as important part of their classes). We don't need to have the best one, we just need one, and if we had both LAOTL and it, it would be pretty OP.

No you don't. Each of the plate classes have their niche for mobility. Warriors: super mobile and decent slowing ability. DKs: avg mobility, decent slowing ability, disruptive reverse gap closer. Ret: decent mobility, avg to meh slowing ability, insane anti slowing ability.

What ret lacks in the ability to slow or close a gap it makes up for with the ability to actually STAY on a target once there.

[Deleted]

if you're sick play ret! if you're a coward play what you want

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'm simply going to reply using your own words.

and you fail badly with that, since nothing you said in regards to Ret pvp makes any sense or credibility.
And you just can't compare PVP to dragonslaying, because, you know, fighting scripted dragons iz hard amirite?

- - - Updated - - -

What ret lacks in the ability to slow or close a gap it makes up for with the ability to actually STAY on a target once there.

What Ret lacks(as well as Enh, Assasinate, Mutilate, but they have it easier though due to either spammable root or stealth tactics) is the ability to actually close the gap, first and foremost.
If closing the gap involves more than 2 button presses(and more than 2 abilities to do so) and more than 5 seconds worth of time, that's not a gap closer.

[rhandric]

and you fail badly with that, since nothing you said in regards to Ret pvp makes any sense or credibility.
And you just can't compare PVP to dragonslaying, because, you know, fighting scripted dragons iz hard amirite?

- - - Updated - - -


What Ret lacks(as well as Enh, Assasinate, Mutilate, but they have it easier though due to either spammable root or stealth tactics) is the ability to actually close the gap, first and foremost.
If closing the gap involves more than 2 button presses(and more than 2 abilities to do so) and more than 5 seconds worth of time, that's not a gap closer.

Any credibility you may have had was lost in this post.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Any credibility you may have had was lost in this post.

no.
But feel free to elaborate and expand on your solidly based opinion.

[rhandric]

no.
But feel free to elaborate and expand on your solidly based opinion.

Let's see...you list Assasinate (sic) and Mutilate as if they're 2 different specs (hint, they're not), you're dismissive of PvE (next time I'll just post lulpvp to stay down at your level), and you ignore the entire package offered by a class/spec, making some dismissive comment that more than 2 abilities doesn't make a gap closer...guess what, you have multiple tools at your disposal, learn to use them properly.

But again, I know you won't be happy unless you're given a big shiny button that lets you teleport and stick to your target like glue

[Morally Grey Storm]

Let's see...you list Assasinate (sic) and Mutilate as if they're 2 different specs (hint, they're not)

well, let's see, everyone makes a mistake once in a while, Combat and Assasination, of course.
Which does not change the fact that specs with no reliable gap closer are the bottom feeders.
But you can still claim I'm wrong when all the facts are proving me right.

you're dismissive of PvE (next time I'll just post lulpvp to stay down at your level)

I am not, I just don't give a feth.
Pve is just simpler than PVP.
You should try it for once and see the difference for yourself.
Especially if you somehow climb past 1500 in 3's.
Which I doubt you have the skill to.

you ignore the entire package offered by a class/spec, making some dismissive comment that more than 2 abilities doesn't make a gap closer...guess what, you have multiple tools at your disposal, learn to use them properly.

You ignore the whole point that said "package" (too loud a word) is not helping.
If multiple tools fail, guess what?
You need to do something about it, either imrpove tools, or solve the case some other way around.
OR
You might claim RET IS FINE SHUT UP FETH YOU like the champ you are.

But again, I know you won't be happy unless you're given a big shiny button that lets you teleport and stick to your target like glue

But again, this baseless claim is based on what?
Oh, I think I accidentally answered that already: it's baseless.

[Vash The Stampede]

you're dismissive of PvE (next time I'll just post lulpvp to stay down at your level),

I am an Heroic raiding Ret Pally, and we really need a gap closer there. In SoO, it's not a problem with Flex or normal raids but get into Heroics and suddenly mobility is a big problem.

For example, Sha of Pride requires a lot of movement for a successful kill. General Nazgrim you have to chase after adds as there are more of them in Heroic. Most of the fights require a lot of movement from players, and Paladins Hand of Freedom and Emancipate do nothing. The only mobility talents that actually increase mobility are Tier 15, and they're all terrible. It's really about choosing the talent that sucks the least.

As for PvP, the amount of spam slows that players put on you has made Emancipate useless. You're almost always better off using Freedom, and that's why Clemency is just a requirement for Ret in PvP. Mobility is just one of many reasons why Ret sucks in PvP, but I have gotten past 1500 this season and I can tell you that it sucks so badly that for the first time playing WoW I have given up on PvP. I have played since Vanilla, and Ret has never been that bad in PvP. PvE is a different story, but never that bad. Not even TBC was that bad.

[Crushima]

Basically you all want to be warriors.

You've had your pummel interrupt ability, now you want charge.

Next you'll want our banners

Next you'll want to be able to dual wield 2h'ers

Just pick a class and be happy. Don't like it? Pick another class. Don't just whine to get your class every single ability from other classes, and remove the little class flavour that is still left.

Oh, and before someone quotes me and says 'we're not asking for every single ability, just a gap closer' know this. There will be a thread every patch/expansion asking for one more ability. Saw it with your rebuke - you guys begged on countless threads for this. It will never end, until you can do everything on your paladin.

[Dazzy]

I imagine they can use the same abilities to close gaps that they use to outrun other melee for 10 minutes a time.

[Nillen]

I kinda like that we dont have an instant gap closer. Makes positioning more valuable and makes a gap between smart and dumb players. Rather then giving Rets a gap closer, I would have more gap closers removed from other melee's. I love my class and spec, I do like having some weaknesses, as you have to think and play around it. Yes, to the people screaming that warriors does bigger numbers, they do not bring the same amount of utility as we do for the raid as we do. I do still see Paladins as a somewhat support class and Im fine with smaller numbers because of that. I love being able to save raidmembers or teammembers. I do not play Ret for smashing people in the head with a big mace. I would play a warrior in that case. I play Ret for being a knight of the light. Be proud, not some whiny kid who thinks the grass is greener on the other side.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Be proud, not some whiny kid who thinks the grass is greener on the other side.

It's not pride that holds your head high when you're neck-deep in it.
And pvp Ret is neck-deep in it already, sure as sure.

[roahn the warlock]

With all this talk about new talents, I don't see anything to improve Retributions ability to close the gap. I know a lot of you are going to say L2P and everything, but no it's bad. Both for PvP and PvE. In PvP it's bad, and in PvE it's especially bad. Specifically in Heroic raids, where you often have to switch targets and chase after something. Out of combat mobility is also terrible, cause Rets best choice is Long Arm of the Law, and if there's nothing to hit then you don't run you stroll.

Either Ret needs it's own gap closer, or the level 15 talents need major improvements. I just don't see topics or complaints about this, as I think it should be our top issue.

I argue that other classes need less gap closers. Warriors... they are unnaturally hard for warlocks at a average player's level. they are the stampede for killing locks.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I argue that other classes need less gap closers. Warriors... they are unnaturally hard for warlocks at a average player's level. they are the stampede for killing locks.

and warlocks are bane for Ret. It's next to impossible to catch up to lock as Ret due to how our glorious "package of gap-closing tools" works.
I say, game needs less fears that do not break on damage.