Remove Elitists From Raids and Battlegrounds

[Deleted]

Sounds like someone should stick to playing Minecraft

[Nemah]

I think you'll find the majority of the players that complain in LFR etc ARE casual players that are frustrated and acting like assholes. The reason why you are now wiping on LFR (despite it being nerfed time and again), is because the vast majority of the decent players no longer bother with it because they are tired of the AFKers and the consistently low standard of incompetent players.

Elite/decent players that are worth their weight don't have a need to even bother with LFR difficulty, not even on their alts. It's not worth the time waste for such little in return.

FYI op as you say, it's a game so why are you causing unnecessary drama on a forum about a game you play casually when there's a vote to kick system, a report button, an ignore button oh and you can also just leave the raid if non of the previously listed options work for you.

But you dramatising and creating a rift/divide between the gaming community on these forums IS toxic behaviour aka shit-stirring.

You're no better than the toxic assholes in LFR you speak of.

If all these complainers took the time they spent complaining, and put it into something useful instead like learning their class and raid boss mechanics, LFR would be in a much better state than it is currently.

52 pages, 1022 posts in…..the voice of reason.

Rifts exist where you create them. The only way someone ruins your experience in something - especially a game - is when you let them.

I am likely an elitist by some of the standards in this thread. I expect people to put in the same amount of effort I do; but that's also why you don't find me in LFR. At the surface, I do not often view it as a good ROI (among other, more negative opinions).

That being said, on the extremely rare times that happens (such as gearing up an alt or trying to fill in a stubborn slot item that won't drop), you won't me yelling at anyone there, and you won't find my paying any attention at all to anyone who is.

My time, and sanity, is worth more.

[Senftw]

There's a big difference between good player, and elitist. The majority of good players that i've met have been really nice. Elitists can come from all skill levels.

[Dahij]

rofl, while I agree with having something like that in LFR, it would be rediculous to have it in bgs/flex/hc, imagine getting a group together, even a guild group and then someone just writes something thats not even pointed at anyone, maybe something they experienced in real life that day, and then get kicked.. from e premade/guild group.

I know you'll try to defend it by saying "it could be disabled for premade groups". My example still applies for a random group, I could've had a really bad day at a terrible job and just write in the chat "Fuck my job sucks, it's so terrible!" and then get kicked.

So yeah, I'm not reading the forums here too often but this is so far the most rediculous thing I've ever seen suggested. Might aswell request something like if you have x ilvl and do lower than x dps/hps you get kicked, would get rid of all the crap dps and healers, that would be more useful since then the "elitist" wouldn't need to yell at retards.

[Giscoicus]

I want to keep elites in LFR and BGs and remove elitists from LFR and BGs. 42 pages and you still managed to miss the topic and all the explanations thus far. Bravo sir

- - - Updated - - -



I agree that people are problematic, but there are adult ways of handling these types of things. It's just a game, there is no cause to lose our cool and fly off the handle.

There is also no reason for people to ever not give 100%.

[Logiks]

Why should the 95% majority of casuals have to tolerate the 5% of elitists? Maybe they should change queues to be "Hardcore" or "Casual". Then we can filter them as soon as they join the LF(whatever).

LOL as if this couldn't be any more backwards... I respect people for playing more casually than I do, but I don't respect people who waste both my time and their time by failing things they should know how to do (queueing for a dungeon, especially as tank or healer, means that you're making a commitment to a group of people, and you have an obligation to perform your best). As far as the casuals "tolerating" the elitists... it's totally the other way around... The elitists are forced to tolerate the bad gameplay of casuals, while casuals getting griefed for poor performance have no grounds to get butthurt.

If certain words and phrases offend you, it is not the fault of the utterer when you get offended. Either step up your game play so "elitists" won't "yell" at you, or tighten your butthole, and accept criticism in the ruthless way the internet dishes it out.

Elitism in WoW has a purpose, and that purpose is to make others strive to improve their gameplay, and allow the game to be played more optimally... The ultimate goal is utilitarian =p

[lakhesis]

No it's not weak. I do close to 300k on nazgrim on my alt feral if i go "fuck this shit" and just dps nazgrim. I do far less when i swap around to the different targets.
Nazgrim is in no way a dps check. Ever. It's a mechanic check, which you should very well know.

In fairness, everything is at least some degree of DPS check. Nazgrim apparently has 571 million hp in LFR, judging of the video guide I just checked, and there's an enrage at 10 minutes even in LFR. The adds apparently have 13.9 million hp. I forget how many waves there are, but it's at least 5 with 3-4 in each wave, so we'll be moderate & round it down heavily to 10 adds needing to be killed at 13.9m health, for an extra 139 million hp.

So even by my extremely generous numbers, there's 710 million health to get through in 10 minutes, which requires 1,183,333 raid dps. With ~18 players (17 dps & 2 tanks doing 0.5 of a dps each) that means you need to be pulling about 65k dps to pull your own weight.

I've been in plenty of LFRs where there are at least 3-5 dpsers pulling well below that level of dps.

The idea that it's all about mechanics is a nice fiction & all, and you can at least be less of a nuisance if you're doing mechanics right, but there is a fundamental "must be this competent to succeed" level even in LFR. It's not the free epics some like to portray it as. Easy maybe, free no - if you're not working for them, someone's carrying you.

Numbers may have been nerfed since the video I checked them from was released, but my point stands. Someone doing sub 50k isn't meeting the expectations Bliz sets on LFR, and in reality you'd want to be doing significantly higher than that to reduce the difficulty of many types of in-fight mechanics.

I rarely meet anyone in LFR whose scintillating personality shines through to such a degree that I'd happily carry them. Personally I'll constrain my distain & keep it in my own head, but few people like a freeloading stranger.

[Giscoicus]

No.
It has never happened if all the players actually swapped to adds.
Enrage only occurs because adds/totems heals boss
Last 10% is from people not killing last addwave(sometimes the wave that spawned around the same time as 10% got hit).

I'm sorry but have you even tried the fight?
It has nothing to do with a dps check any of that you mentioned. What you're talking about is having some people bruteforcing it with high dps. It's two different things.
And you're missing my point entirely about the dps. I do play the game, and i know that the add damage is logged.
Take me for instance going on my feral. I want bleeds up to do good damage. But the adds dies too fast for it to get up and running. Then i starve myself of energy to get enough damage in on them quickly, and swap to next add, standing there, and waiting for my energy to come back.

You LOSE dps from swapping! So the person on adds will almost always do way less than one tunneling the boss. That's why i hate people doing 100k on the boss telling that the guy doing 60-70k with most being on adds, that he sucks. Because he would probably do more than 100k if he haven't had to waste time running around, swapping, reapplying.

Edit:
Is of course some classes that is great at it, and have large enough aoe to get more damage from it, but a lot doesn't.

You lose dps yes, but not a significant amount that ou should stand ou on the meters if you wouldn't stand out before. That's what the guy was suggesting, that people can be good but end up low because of mechanics. While it can lower your dps compared to a patchwerk fight, you wouldn't be good on the meters before then suddenly bad afterwards.

It IS a dps check if players are terrible. I've had flex groups wiping to enrage before because the group leader wouldn't kick low dps. No it isn't built as a dps check but unlike something like Malkorok, dps heavily influences the fight outcome.

[khalltusk]

In fairness, everything is at least some degree of DPS check. Nazgrim apparently has 571 million hp in LFR, judging of the video guide I just checked, and there's an enrage at 10 minutes even in LFR. The adds apparently have 13.9 million hp. I forget how many waves there are, but it's at least 5 with 3-4 in each wave, so we'll be moderate & round it down heavily to 10 adds needing to be killed at 13.9m health, for an extra 139 million hp.

So even by my extremely generous numbers, there's 710 million health to get through in 10 minutes, which requires 1,183,333 raid dps. With ~18 players (17 dps & 2 tanks doing 0.5 of a dps each) that means you need to be pulling about 65k dps to pull your own weight.

I've been in plenty of LFRs where there are at least 3-5 dpsers pulling well below that level of dps.

The idea that it's all about mechanics is a nice fiction & all, and you can at least be less of a nuisance if you're doing mechanics right, but there is a fundamental "must be this competent to succeed" level even in LFR.

Numbers may have been nerfed since the video I checked them from was released, but my point stands. Someone doing sub 50k isn't meeting the expectations Bliz sets on LFR, and in reality you'd want to be doing significantly higher than that to reduce the difficulty of many types of in-fight mechanics.

You are bang on about how many people are sub 65k DPS on Naz :*( I call him the slayer of raids for a reason. Funny thing as a tank its an easy ass fight taunt at the right time kill banners (Which is easily done solo ona tank in lfr) and when not tanking the boss deal with adds. Repeat. A melee dps for sure has a less fun time rushing after adds but thats been the same since forever.

[Outofmana]

I agree elitist a are not the ones bad mouthing, most of the times you don't see the truly high Dps or healers do that but the idiots that die due to not knowing a mechanic and just want to be carried being the bad mouth in any of those.

Now a question:

I have two simple rules when I'm doing a group event:
When I'm healing and you pull as a Dps before the tank pulls, that means you can take care off yourself and don't need healing
When I'm tanking: you pull it, you tank it.

Exception, when it's accidental that it happens, nothing will happen to you

Am I now elitist for doing that? Or am I just playing a game that is social?

Not a elitist, just a total jerk. When I'm dpsing and I see the tank running to a mob, of course I'm gonna dot it up already, dickhead tanks like you make the game less enjoyable. Same with your healing answer, don't be lame and just do your job (keeping the group up), not healing someone because he pulled is just beyond lame. This game has evolved from the "wait for 5 sunders" and with tanks having 100s of tools to get or keep aggro and dps being counted upon doing a lot of dps or "low dps noob, /kick" it's simply a jerk move to not tank when a dps pulls.

Of course there are exceptions with dpsing pulling extra packs etc, but you sound like the anoying guy that if you're like 1MM away from the mob and someone let's a fireball go or casts a dot, you stop tanking, which is why people hate tanks so much these days that act like they're in charge.

[Karon]

#RemoveDeadWeightAFKer

[khalltusk]

There is also no reason for people to ever not give 100%.

While I a disagree with a lot of your views I do agree with this.

[Jyggalag]

The world's full of assholes. You can't expect to play a game with 7 million others and not run into a few. Get over it.

[Terridon]

You lose dps yes, but not a significant amount that ou should stand ou on the meters if you wouldn't stand out before. That's what the guy was suggesting, that people can be good but end up low because of mechanics. While it can lower your dps compared to a patchwerk fight, you wouldn't be good on the meters before then suddenly bad afterwards.

It IS a dps check if players are terrible. I've had flex groups wiping to enrage before because the group leader wouldn't kick low dps. No it isn't built as a dps check but unlike something like Malkorok, dps heavily influences the fight outcome.

Did some calculations because i got bored. You need tanks and dps to do an average of 58k dps to not hit enrage if you get 5 waves on nazgrim lfr, if they don't let adds/boss getting healed. Let's say they do, so we can say 60k dps required because it's such a nice number.

Tell me if that has ever happened that people on average was this low? Are you still going to argue that this in any way is something that you should be worried about happening?
It's just about people doing it right, so i rather have that low geared guy getting 20-30k lower than he could be, because he don't walk back to nazgrim when he can see next addwave is going to hit, and instead just idle a bit, waiting for the shaman, so he can pummel him down from start and interrupt.
I notice that kind of things. I do notice if they're just afking or if they're actually just more focused on doing the mechanics right than cheesing mechanisms. Just like people popping all CDs on the adds surrounding the boss.

Flex is, as i said another case, since it's not made to be faceroll to the degree that lfr is. I'm solely talking about lfr, because in a flex i will make sure to boot the obnoxious person with a max of one warning. People are usually very nice there, though.
The underperforming ones too, if it matters.

And you're just plain wrong about people not losing significant damage from swapping around to fast dying adds that isn't really stacked up.
Some can, some can't, but that's not what you're saying. You say that you know mechanics that nobody else does, to keep the damage almost the same as tunneling on one target for almost all classes. At least that is how i see it, because i don't know how to.

[-Superman-]

There is also no reason for people to ever not give 100%.

I do not disagree with this. What I disagree with is people blatantly losing their cool in a Dungeon, BG, Raid, etc. If you have a temper, keep it to yourself. If you have something to say, say it like an adult.

[Rhaide]

So, I thought I would toss out an idea, since the front page seems to be littered with ideas of the same level of merit. I would love to have the system auto-kick the first person to gets defensive about his own misstakes in a BG, LFR, Flex, or Heroic. The system would see the excuses or masked blaming based on certain excuses and remove the burden from the run and allow everyone else to enjoy their game. This could be any douche in the group who feels the rest of the team should make up for his lack of effort or belittle his team thinking they are his servants.

In the end, it is just a game. It should matter that those of us who might prefer LFR should get members that puts some effort into their DPS, or those like myself who tank might miss a step and wipe and don't feel the need to make up an excuse or get extremly butthurt over being corrected. Shit happens. So the burdens either need to get the fuck over it, or not run LFR with strangers. Group with your friends and let the rest of us play the game without having to try to make up for your lack of basic effort. Since we are obviously bothering you, YOU need to look elsewhere for your runs, because you should not be expected to be carried by everyone else, while the majority of us enjoy our game at reasonable pace.

You're a bit harsh, but I agree with you, OP is assuming that everyone he groups with is happy to deal with people wasting time. He's commenting about elitism while simultaneously being elitist in his own way. Sad that he doesn't see it.

[-Superman-]

The world's full of assholes. You can't expect to play a game with 7 million others and not run into a few. Get over it.

If it were only a few, it would likely not be an issue. But it seems like EVERY SINGLE RUN has one asshole that cannot hold his temper. They need to remember it is just a game, be an adult, handle it like one, and move on. Blowing their top and making it uncomfortable for others who are there to have fun is not necessary.

- - - Updated - - -

You're a bit harsh, but I agree with you, OP is assuming that everyone he groups with is happy to deal with people wasting time. He's commenting about elitism while simultaneously being elitist in his own way. Sad that he doesn't see it.

If asking people to act like adults and handle low scoring players in an adult manner makes me an elitist, then yea, I am an elitist.

[khalltusk]

If it were only a few, it would likely not be an issue. But it seems like EVERY SINGLE RUN has one asshole that cannot hold his temper. They need to remember it is just a game, be an adult, handle it like one, and move on. Blowing their top and making it uncomfortable for others who are there to have fun is not necessary.

- - - Updated - - -



If asking people to act like adults and handle low scoring players in an adult manner makes me an elitist, then yea, I am an elitist.

I am glad so many people on this thread think like you do. If you cannot get a point across with out directly flaming someone its probably not worth doing so. I have seen quite a few people openly flame someone whos not performing as well as they could do. Sure I don't mind pointing out sub par play if its constructive even better! But just telling someone they suck or a fucking noob etc is not really cool and just a waste of time. You earn no respect in doing it.

[Giscoicus]

Apologies I was referring to the "general" you rather than stating YOU directly.

There is nothing childish about pointing out someones falings but it is childish to call someone terribad. IF the guys doing low DPS sure point it out, this guys damage is low kick away. Saying "this guys a terribad mage" is childish and is infact flaming them. Blizzard may not even action on it as its not really that bad an insult. It is still an insult however.

If you read my posts you will note I am not asking for you to be all nice and rosey to people. You can point out failings with out resorting to flaming. As for my choice in gemming? I've quite clearly not kept up to date with theory crafting on the best gems/enchants etc. Why? I am no longer doing cutting edge content like I used to. Shock Horror I am a former Heroic raider. If I ever get back into it the first thing I would do is shake off the rust and get my Theory crafting on and figure out what I should be doing right gear wise.

No it isn't flaming them. Terribad=terrible and bad. If they are dying and have low output then they as soon badly. Terribly bad. Hence the term. Is not flaming them. Calling them names that have no connection I what they are doing in game is flaming. Calling something in relation to their performance in game is not. If I call you a cunt, that really has no connection to any intake performance. I saying "this cunt has terrible dps" is flaming, because I'm using the dps as grounds to call you a cunt, when there is no relation. To say "this noob has terrible dps" is NOT flaming because the noob comment is based on the damage.

I was usin your gems as an example, I know you only do LFR but you should still keep up with your class mechanics. You aren't giving 100% because its not heroic raiding. I'm ire you are a good player and can handle yourself otherwise, but there is still not a reason to, just because its LFR, not give 100%. Howeve there are those who do not have the skill of a heroic raider who do not learn their class and keep up with changes. The "it only LFR don't care" mentality is horrible, and a sign of lack of dedication or care for others who will need to work harder to make up the difference. I'm not a great healer, but when I heal Inmake sure the raid lead knows I'm not great and have a friend who is willing to make up the difference. I do this in flex, and when I do LFR I have a healer friend come to help me out. If you have a healer willing to group with you to make up the difference then great! But don't expect random grouped healer to work harder since you don check icyveins.

[Terridon]

I am glad so many people on this thread think like you do. If you cannot get a point across with out directly flaming someone its probably not worth doing so. I have seen quite a few people openly flame someone whos not performing as well as they could do. Sure I don't mind pointing out sub par play if its constructive even better! But just telling someone they suck or a fucking noob etc is not really cool and just a waste of time. You earn no respect in doing it.

Think most thinks the same. We just see some people that want to defend doing it because that's how they've always done it.
Don't really think we've seen a lot in this thread, if any, that actively afks and finds it unfair/elitist that people kicks them. Just players that don't like being flamed randomly by somebody that often is no better than themself.