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  1. #1

    A suggested solution to the lack of tanks and LFD queue times (NOT LFR).

    This is not news to anyone by now. I propose the following solution:
    Allow dps specs to have the option to queue as tanks. Give them increased threat, health and/or armor and a vengeance-like mechanic. All classes now have tools for survival and some form of AoE so tanking multiple targets shouldn't be a problem.
    This is only for 5-man instances or scenarios maybe, but not for raids. Even low level instances too.
    Maybe with a requirement similar to You are Doing it Wrong in Proving Grounds.

    This is about 5-mans, not LFR
    Bolded part please.
    Last edited by whyabadi; 2013-12-07 at 05:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    We've said before that it's not a lack of tank specs. It's a lack of people willing to shoulder the abuse that gets heaped on them in such a pivotal role. A bad tank can make or break an LFR group while a good one is almost never thanked and just abused when things go wrong.

    I'm generalizing to a small degree but it's why I stopped running LFR on my alts and completely stopped tanking it despite the fact that I am a tank. Every tank to 90, every one of them raided with in some fashion.

  3. #3
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    I would like to can tank in dungeons i solo 5mans HC mine pet have more HP that tanks who goes there but i dint have option

  4. #4
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    I would like to can tank in dungeons i solo 5mans HC mine pet have more HP that tanks who goes there but i dint have option
    If your tank leaves the group you can.

  5. #5
    I am not talking about LFR here. That would require a lot of tweaking!

  6. #6
    The Patient Neforpubl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyabadi View Post
    This is not news to anyone by now. I propose the following solution:
    Allow dps specs to have the option to queue as tanks. Give them increased threat, health and/or armor and a vengeance-like mechanic. All classes now have tools for survival and some form of AoE so tanking multiple targets shouldn't be a problem.
    This is only for 5-man instances or scenarios maybe, but not for raids. Even low level instances too.
    Maybe with a requirement similar to You are Doing it Wrong in Proving Grounds.
    Do you have any idea how much time that would take? Months. Now by all means.... if you want to have WoD release at the same time as the Warcraft movie then push this idea.
    Some people on the other hand would really like to have the new expansion come out sometime this next year.


    Plus lets get real dude.... Your queues are still shorter then how LFD used to be :

    LFM RFC NEED 1 HEALER LEVEL 10+ DONT SUCK
    LFM WAILING CAVERNS NEED 2 DPS DONT SUCK

    Remember how long that shit took in Vanilla and TBC? That's what I thought.

    Thank you ElyPop for the sig!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    I would like to can tank in dungeons i solo 5mans HC mine pet have more HP that tanks who goes there but i dint have option
    could you please link your 1mil health pet?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Neforpubl View Post
    Do you have any idea how much time that would take? Months. Now by all means.... if you want to have WoD release at the same time as the Warcraft movie then push this idea.
    Some people on the other hand would really like to have the new expansion come out sometime this next year.


    Plus lets get real dude.... Your queues are still shorter then how LFD used to be :

    LFM RFC NEED 1 HEALER LEVEL 10+ DONT SUCK
    LFM WAILING CAVERNS NEED 2 DPS DONT SUCK

    Remember how long that shit took in Vanilla and TBC? That's what I thought.
    If you were half way competent and had built a reputation for being so not long at all.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  8. #8
    Deleted
    So, you're idea is to give people the ability to tank without leveling a tank?
    as has been mentioned, the issue isn't a classes ability to tank, it's all of the abuse tanks get that is the issue here, that needs fixing first. Not other classes ability to fill a tank role.

  9. #9
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    could you please link your 1mil health pet?
    Please link your screenshot when you used LFD and found a 1 mil hp tank? When I began doing LFD in MOP I had like 420k hp maybe, and before SoO gear no tank had 1mil. Even now you need full raid buffs or to gem pure stam.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorune View Post
    So, you're idea is to give people the ability to tank without leveling a tank?
    as has been mentioned, the issue isn't a classes ability to tank, it's all of the abuse tanks get that is the issue here, that needs fixing first. Not other classes ability to fill a tank role.
    It's to make tanking a slightly easier choice. You don't have to gear for tanking, change spec, or learn a new rotation. Most people who play a damage dealing role also know how to use some of their abilities to survive in dungeons and raids. Not much will change for you should you choose to tick that box.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Please link your screenshot when you used LFD and found a 1 mil hp tank? When I began doing LFD in MOP I had like 420k hp maybe, and before SoO gear no tank had 1mil. Even now you need full raid buffs or to gem pure stam.
    I can do better than that.

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...hills/skrillox

    This is my Co-tank.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    We've said before that it's not a lack of tank specs. It's a lack of people willing to shoulder the abuse that gets heaped on them in such a pivotal role. A bad tank can make or break an LFR group while a good one is almost never thanked and just abused when things go wrong.

    I'm generalizing to a small degree but it's why I stopped running LFR on my alts and completely stopped tanking it despite the fact that I am a tank. Every tank to 90, every one of them raided with in some fashion.
    100% this. I have a tank, I'm fairly good at tanking, I refuse to tank in LFR. The vast majority in LFR are shitheads and ingrates.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sibut View Post
    100% this. I have a tank, I'm fairly good at tanking, I refuse to tank in LFR. The vast majority in LFR are shitheads and ingrates.
    yep. ran a couple of throne LF"R" for an old guild member coming back who is way behind on his legendary cloak, which is a requirement of our raid team. The first one we entered there was some druid from Kelthazud just running his mouth full speed the whole time, trolling people. I asked him politely to zip it to no avail. The second boss in he kept popping in to bear form and taunting the boss and making comments about the tanks needed to gain better aggro. Regretfully after he god globaled each time he got battle rezz'd. After we completed the fight I initiated a vote kick, mentioned that there were two more votes needed for the kick, and found myself looking at a load screen. He then went on to roll a number of level one alts on my server each of which were ignored and reported to continue the harassment.

    Hopefully a temp ban follows but I highly doubt it.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  14. #14
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyabadi View Post
    I am not talking about LFR here. That would require a lot of tweaking!
    I'm sorry I misread it.

    Yeah I don't see a reason why 5 mans couldn't do away with tanks. We're not that necessary

  15. #15
    I switched mains from my warrior of 7 years to a hunter, and I started collecting prot gear for my warrior as she was always Fury, and with the cesspool LFR is, I've given up, I don't want to deal with that, and that is the central problem.

    The single only reason I'd ever tank now is; dungeons for the bag with the chance for mounts.

    Oqueue flex can be as bad as LFR a lot as well, I've been in groups with a high ilevel requirement, that after one wipe, half the raid instantly leaves, or pulls the boss then leaves, or shouts abuse then leaves, etc it's not a miracle tool that people sometimes think, great concept though, Openraid pisses ALL over it in terms of quality of people from my own experience.

    Edit: I'd tank for a guild, however, because I have far, far more experience as melee and ranged dps throughout my "career", I'd pretty much HAVE to run LFR to get some sort of feel of tanking the fights, which again, is a core problem, it's blocking the evolution of tanks.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer NuLogic's Avatar
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    If people wanted to tank they would simply play at least a tank alt.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I'm sorry I misread it.

    Yeah I don't see a reason why 5 mans couldn't do away with tanks. We're not that necessary
    No more than dps or heals are necessary at the end of the expansion. Really the only class that needs some form of parasitic attachment IS healers.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  18. #18
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    No more than dps or heals are necessary at the end of the expansion. Really the only class that needs some form of parasitic attachment IS healers.
    DPS are the measurement of the success of the group without a tank. The reason I can solo most heroics as 2H frost is because I do more damage solo than a 5 man group did at the start of an expansion. I can blow through most of the mechanics because they either don't happen (die too fast) or my health is high enough that I can survive it as a tank would have at 435 gear.

    The idea of making the DPS kinda "off-tank" is a good idea. I wouldn't want to remove the entire concept of a dungeon group - I've met some great people in dungeons but I don't think as the expansion continues that the original 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps format is necessary

  19. #19
    Maybe it's because I'm EU but, ehm, from my experience there is rarely ever a lack of tanks in LFD at all. I can't remember a single case when I waited longer than 5 minutes for an invite as DPS during the last year, which is as good as nothing, and more often this is due to a lack of heals and not tanks. Are things really so different on the other side of the ocean?
    Your rights as a consumer begin and end at the point where you choose not to consume, and not where you yourself influence the consumed goods.

    Translation: if you don't like a game don't play it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    DPS are the measurement of the success of the group without a tank. The reason I can solo most heroics as 2H frost is because I do more damage solo than a 5 man group did at the start of an expansion. I can blow through most of the mechanics because they either don't happen (die too fast) or my health is high enough that I can survive it as a tank would have at 435 gear.

    The idea of making the DPS kinda "off-tank" is a good idea. I wouldn't want to remove the entire concept of a dungeon group - I've met some great people in dungeons but I don't think as the expansion continues that the original 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps format is necessary
    that is my point. a lot of this "tanks don't matter" rubish is the sputum of overly geared dps that were not crying for the removal of tanks before they lost a bit of squish. This expansion I could solo the first two normal dungeons as a pally tank the day I hit 90. Most dps cannot make that claim.

    The simple answer is NOT to remove any one class, but to make the content challenging enough and remove the ability of dps to take more than one or two shots from a (group) boss much like it was in prior content. Taking the defense rating out of the game was a very silly mistake on blizzard's part. There was a mechanic that in one fell swoop added the ability to keep dps in their place. As tools to bring a target's health down. Mine is to fix it in place while you do so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kao View Post
    Maybe it's because I'm EU but, ehm, from my experience there is rarely ever a lack of tanks in LFD at all. I can't remember a single case when I waited longer than 5 minutes for an invite as DPS, which is as good as nothing, and more often this is due to a lack of heals and not tanks. Are things really so different on the other side of the ocean?
    I rarely que for LFD. I ONLY do so on tuesday or if a goody bag is up. Lately I have seen no goody bags, OR I que when it says that it is available and then it is not when the group forms so I obviously decline.

    This being said it would point to there NOT being a shortage of tanks. Maybe there is a shortage of competent players who are filling the tank rolls, but LFD is not built around the concept of any competency being needed.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

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