Is Garrosh Flex tuned too high for pugs?

[DeadmanWalking]

Is Flex Garrosh too hard for a pug? Mind you I am not asking if its too hard for a well co-ordinated raid guild but rather for a group of complete strangers with some leeway given to the reality that a couple of people in a pug are not going to be performing as good as others as well as some over performing.

My experiences thus far has been that I used Open Raid to join the same group every week and it took us 4 weeks of 4 hour face slams to finally down Garrosh. We did have the last phase mechanic wrong for 2 of those initial weeks and we were running 25 man groups so increased difficulty. Now mind you that 90% of the group stayed the same for the 4 weeks.

Then they changed their raid times and I have been joining random open raid groups with high required standards to down Garrosh and I have yet to down garrosh for the last few weeks in those other pugs. All of these pugs said they required high ilevel 540+ and experience downing Garrosh but I have yet to find a group in a random pug beyond that initial group to down Garrosh.

I’m a raid leader myself and I tend to drop a consistent 200k+ dps and I know the fights and I have excellent raid awareness, I am usually the last to die in a group so I know that I am not contributing to the fails on garrosh.

I expect wipes on Garrosh, I could even handle an hour or two of wipes so long but having gone several weeks with only one Garrosh kill I am wondering if perhaps it is tuned too high for pugs and someone like me who has to rely on pugs to complete this wing because my guild is still working on wing 3 thok.

[Ailylia]

I believe it is, because my group usually gets our pugs through by some of us grabbing our overgeared mains, and as a last resort, removing people below a certain thresshold of dps. Not because they aren't doing the mechanics properly but just because the shorter the fight is, the easier it is. But yes if you had nothing but pugs doing ~200k you'd have a very hard time doing the fight and I don't think 200k is a bad number for FLEX DPS.

However, the only solution I can offer you is to try and simplify your strategy as much as possible to increase DPS uptime.

[Csnyder]

as always it depends on the pugs themselves, pugs on my server down heroic garrosh on a regular basis.

[Deleted]

Its fine for group where ppl watch their addons and not tunnel the boss only
I never had problems but i preff overgeared groups where we can just get him to ph 3 before second transiction

[Boricha]

I've only killed him twice on flex with random OQueue pug groups. To me the fight doesn't seem that difficult and dps is almost never the issue (I've finished the fight with many dps in the 140-180k dps range). The downfall always seems to be either people not killing adds and MCs anymore in phase 3 or tanks not positioning adds correctly in phase 1. I'm not sure how you could nerf either of those things though without just removing them.

[Deleted]

No its not it allways depends on the players - if u go with people who dont reforge, gem, enchant ofc its to hard...

[threads]

It just depends on the people you run with. I've been in groups that solo healed it and then groups that wiped for 2 hours.

[Annarion]

I almost always one shot Garrosh on OQueue. And people complain when I set my ilvl req to be 550.

[xixixviixiiii]

Flex Garrosh is fairly easily killed between 530-550 ilevel. You're not supposed to be able to ignore mechanics and win, nor should you have anyone without proper reforges, gems, enchants and whatever else. That is what LFR is for (even then, it's not really acceptable-- just lazy).

I've never had any problems with Flex Garrosh. It is pretty faceroll compared to normal even.

[ryklin]

what are people saying?
200k is the dps check for garrosh normal, lol, I think in flex, you'd be more than fine with everyone pulling at least 120k or so, with 150k+ being a pretty much guaranteed kill

usually what causes wipes in garrosh is poor thinking out of where you'll be leaving the weapons that come right after empowered whirl hits and those limiting your p3 movement, people getting hit by the purple swirlies during empowered whirl and falling over, and mind controls not get taken care of well
poor add handling can also cause a wipe, but it can usually be solved after a mistake with a tank cd and a taunt or someone grabbing threat on them and kiting

try coming up with a more safe plan for placing the last couple desecrates, or even just kill every desecrate until p3 starts so you'll have no movement problems

but yes, garrosh is a really annoying fight that likes to punish people for small, easily possible mistakes, which is not a good thing for pugging

you can try having everyone but 3 ranged dps (3 is 10man, 8 is 25, not sure about between points) stack on garrosh, and just have that grouping place desecrates out at range

some guilds just stack there and heal through each desecrate while they immediately kill, but that's not a strat I'd recommend w/o seeing your healers

tell your dps to pad meters less with aoe in phase 1

if the fight is taking more than 10 minutes, as it usually does on people's first kills, use bloodlust on the pull and again in phase 3 as the enrage timer is 12 minutes

[DeadmanWalking]

as always it depends on the pugs themselves, pugs on my server down heroic garrosh on a regular basis.

I doubt those are real pugs and more likely are mostly a guild that invites a few people you know are good into the group. Open Raid Pugs are people who you don't know from the four corners of the planet.

The wierd thing is that the requirement for my last group was 'must have downed Garrosh' and I checked the other puggers out and they were 14/14 but I ended up explaining what to do in the fight (and I was not the raid leader, just another pugger) and they still didn't seem like they had experienced those mechanics before.

[Demeia]

I find the biggest problem with Garrosh is the extraordinarily slow pulls. Some guy in awesome gear comes for a chance at an heirloom, the raid wipes, and that guy bolts meaning we need a replacement. The worst thing, is raids seem to want to replace dps--as if having 14 were a requirement. The few times raids didn't replace unless they had to, things went better as we got smaller.

Having to constantly search and replace people, the fight leading to natural attrition through wipes, and also requiring somewhere between 1 hour and sometimes 2-3 all lead to it being a fairly miserable experience. Objectively it's not too hard or unfair--it's what you'd expect for a last boss--but it sure ends up feeling like it because of all the social problems a pug will have.

[Bathory]

I almost always one shot Garrosh on OQueue. And people complain when I set my ilvl req to be 550.

This. And thank you for that.

[Deleted]

pugs are not the target group for flex.

[Senen]

as always it depends on the pugs themselves, pugs on my server down heroic garrosh on a regular basis.

I highly doubt that.
Even on top 10 eu/top 10 us servers, there are maximum 6 guilds at 14/14HM on a given server. More often than not it's less than 4 guilds and that's considering both 25-man and 10-man.
So yeah, that would mean that the pugs on your server are better than the top guilds on your server. Very unlikely.

Unless you're asian, and you're talking about nerfed 10-man Garrosh, ofc.

[DeadmanWalking]

pugs are not the target group for flex.

They may not be the target but I can guarantee you that Blizzard is getting very annoyed that oqueue and openraid are making money off their product serving those flex groups.

And for not being the target of pug groups I certainly have never had a problem beating the other 13 bosses in a pug group, they are practically on farm now.

[Ailylia]

I almost always one shot Garrosh on OQueue. And people complain when I set my ilvl req to be 550.

But thats kindof the point. Sure garrosh is easy when you stack the deck with gear, but having a fight that requires 550+ in an instance that drops 540 loot? thats overtuned.

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They may not be the target but I can guarantee you that Blizzard is getting very annoyed that oqueue and openraid are making money off their product serving those flex groups.

Yeah openraid is just ROLLING in dough. You do know its run by volunteers and barely makes enough to pay server costs, right?

[DeadmanWalking]

But thats kindof the point. Sure garrosh is easy when you stack the deck with gear, but having a fight that requires 550+ in an instance that drops 540 loot? thats overtuned.

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Yeah openraid is just ROLLING in dough. You do know its run by volunteers and barely makes enough to pay server costs, right?

I work in the advertisement business and I can tell you straight up that if I print something with mickey mouse on it and make a dime off it without Disney permission they will show up at my door with a hatchet looking to take my hands off at the wrist. Nobody likes people making money off their product on the side. I've recieved jobs from companies like Nike and Ford because they caught someone selling products for scratch, shut them down and passed the niche market to my company.

[Nobleshield]

I don't think so, but I've only killed him once on Flex (I don't run Flex often), just last week actually with a group from OpenRaid, I want to say there was around 15 of us but might have been more. We one-shot everything, including Garrosh; we only did Wing #4 and it took just under an hour (two hours had been booked). I think I was highest DPS at 204k or thereabouts (my memory is hazy). To be honest I found it was pretty easy as long as people get down the mind controlled people fast; we ignored the little spawns from Empowered Corruption in the last phase (when he went Super Garrosh) and just burned him down.

[Toiran]

You can literally stack the entire group on flex and practically cheese the fight.

As long as you have a couple healers its fine, literally everyone stacks, and NEVER moves apart from the port phases obviously, just need decent healers and people using defensive properly and making sure the weapon dies within seconds as it's right under the entire group.

Obviously this requires a group actually listening and following the tactics, which shouldn't be anywhere near as much as a problem for a Openraid group in comparison to oQueue.

I think its tuned pretty well, you can't afk, and it's not impossible for a pug at the same time, you just need people to be aware of whats going on, the entire fight is practically target switch > nuke > target switch > nuke and again and again and again, nuke the weapon, nuke/cc the MC'd, nuke the healing add, etc.

I really enjoy the Garrosh fight tbh, but yes, true pugs of randoms are not the target of flex, really you want a core group in the pug to be friends/guildies that you can rely on more than a random player.