Currently class with the most pressure?

[Ragaflask]

So which classes keep the best pressure on healers and ranged in 3s? Just curious to get peoples experience/opinions so far this season.

[Kreeshak]

if pressure = sustained damage I would go for unholy dk, arms warrior, affliction lock

[Deleted]

Overall Affliction Warlock is the best for sustained pressure.

If you count pressure on healers and ranged while sitting the target id go with uhdk/arms.

[saucyboy]

arms warriors so mean to me

[Kreeshak]

if pressure = cc chains first thing that comes in mind is hunter,priest,mage

[Korgoth]

This is MOP! Pressure is meaningless in the face of overwhelming healing throughput. It's nothing but a burst into CC game now. Which is why DKs, who by far have the most pressure with NS stacking and massive spread damage, are rather shitty.

[Ragaflask]

Quite interesting, seem like the majority are pointing towards DK and warriors. I've seen good DKs fold like paper in groups with rogues and warriors into the mix. I'm guessing DK survivability sucks at this point compare to defenses of the warrior? I can see where an affliction lock can put decent pressure one if geared correctly.

[Rorke]

Quite interesting, seem like the majority are pointing towards DK and warriors. I've seen good DKs fold like paper in groups with rogues and warriors into the mix. I'm guessing DK survivability sucks at this point compare to defenses of the warrior? I can see where an affliction lock can put decent pressure one if geared correctly.

It's not the fact that DK survivability sucks (people say this but its not true) but DK damage just doesn't cut it when its not completely mindless and easily applied as Warrior damage is. Even as mindless and tunnel like Unholy is, you still have to have some clue as to how to line up your resources correctly to score a kill at a somewhat competitive level. Warriors don't have a resource system or any drawbacks to their damage rotation even if its played incorrectly due to the fact that you literally can't play it incorrectly. Every single gcd of the Warrior attacking you is all high amounts of sustained damage where as Unholy DK's deal shit damage until they can start stacking Necrotic Strike (if they can even do that).

The main problem I see with DK's is the over reliance of Asphyxiate to have any form of pressure on the player. And yes, if you're a DK, you're literally forced to spec Asphyxiate or else you won't kill anything. DK's literally have to sacrifice mobility for an overpowered 5 second stun on a 30 second cool down. It's not a blessing, its a burden because outside of Asphyxiate, you're a walking dummy that relies an mindless dots damage and pet damage. Not to mention Blood Presence which is another burden, will affect your overall dps unlike Defensive Stance for Warriors which is a minor impact for them. Let's not forget that DK's get completely punished for swapping presences, something Warriors never have to worry about.

I'm not going to sit here and act like Unholy is bad though, its more like mid tier at decent levels and lower mid at high levels. It does have some good tools that Warriors don't have and I believe that as much as people bitch and complain about Warrior survivability, I think DK's overall have a superior survival tool kit. The only problem with DK's survivability is that they're completely fucked against cleave damage when they actually get locked down. It's the burden for having such great anti stun/CC abilities.

This is where I believe the whole "DK survivability is bad" misconception stems from. Warriors do good against cleave damage because of their mostly passive defensive survival system. DK's on the other hand are somewhat closer to Rets in the regard that they have a more active yet still somewhat passive survival tool kit.

None of this matters because Subtlety Rogues are secretly the best melee in the game right now. It's just that Arms Warriors are 10x easier to play.

[Korgoth]

It's not the fact that DK survivability sucks (people say this but its not true) but DK damage just doesn't cut it when its not completely mindless and easily applied as Warrior damage is. Even as mindless and tunnel like Unholy is, you still have to have some clue as to how to line up your resources correctly to score a kill at a somewhat competitive level. Warriors don't have a resource system or any drawbacks to their damage rotation even if its played incorrectly due to the fact that you literally can't play it incorrectly. Every single gcd of the Warrior attacking you is all high amounts of sustained damage where as Unholy DK's deal shit damage until they can start stacking Necrotic Strike (if they can even do that).

The main problem I see with DK's is the over reliance of Asphyxiate to have any form of pressure on the player. And yes, if you're a DK, you're literally forced to spec Asphyxiate or else you won't kill anything. DK's literally have to sacrifice mobility for an overpowered 5 second stun on a 30 second cool down. It's not a blessing, its a burden because outside of Asphyxiate, you're a walking dummy that relies an mindless dots damage and pet damage. Not to mention Blood Presence which is another burden, will affect your overall dps unlike Defensive Stance for Warriors which is a minor impact for them. Let's not forget that DK's get completely punished for swapping presences, something Warriors never have to worry about.

I'm not going to sit here and act like Unholy is bad though, its more like mid tier at decent levels and lower mid at high levels. It does have some good tools that Warriors don't have and I believe that as much as people bitch and complain about Warrior survivability, I think DK's overall have a superior survival tool kit. The only problem with DK's survivability is that they're completely fucked against cleave damage when they actually get locked down. It's the burden for having such great anti stun/CC abilities.

This is where I believe the whole "DK survivability is bad" misconception stems from. Warriors do good against cleave damage because of their mostly passive defensive survival system. DK's on the other hand are somewhat closer to Rets in the regard that they have a more active yet still somewhat passive survival tool kit.

None of this matters because Subtlety Rogues are secretly the best melee in the game right now. It's just that Arms Warriors are 10x easier to play.

There is nothing remotely more complicated on a DK then a Warrior, and if you played both like I do, you'd realize that. DKs dont work right now because they still exist for a game where healers werent god mode and could actually fall behind in healing, instead of the current game of CC healer burst hard get CD, CC healer burst hard get next CD, CC healer burst hard kill target.

[Deleted]

There is nothing remotely more complicated on a DK then a Warrior, and if you played both like I do, you'd realize that. DKs dont work right now because they still exist for a game where healers werent god mode and could actually fall behind in healing, instead of the current game of CC healer burst hard get CD, CC healer burst hard get next CD, CC healer burst hard kill target.

I dont really see this god mode healer problem. Do you want games to end in 1 minute or what?

Maybe in 1v1 scenarios or random bgs i could see healers being slightly annoying but thats it.

[Korgoth]

I dont really see this god mode healer problem. Do you want games to end in 1 minute or what?

Maybe in 1v1 scenarios or random bgs i could see healers being slightly annoying but thats it.

On the contrary healers need to be nerfed for games to last longer, as burst and instant CC can only be reduced when healing is reduced. Sustained damage should matter, but it does not since healing completely dwarfs it.

DKs have the big super expensive Super Soaker for Pressure.

Wars have the cheaper version of it.

But healers have a fire hose.

[Deleted]

On the contrary healers need to be nerfed for games to last longer, as burst and instant CC can only be reduced when healing is reduced. Sustained damage should matter, but it does not since healing completely dwarfs it.

I see it the other way around. The burst is insane sometimes and would be even more ridicolous if the healing was nerfed even more.

[Rorke]

I see it the other way around. The burst is insane sometimes and would be even more ridicolous if the healing was nerfed even more.

You're misunderstanding him. He's basically saying that if you nerfed healing, there wouldn't need to be ridiculous burst in the game. Which is somewhat true because healers are easily the most powerful and most responsible role in the game.

I think the stat squish is going to fix the healing and damage issues though. But we'll see.

There is nothing remotely more complicated on a DK then a Warrior, and if you played both like I do, you'd realize that. DKs dont work right now because they still exist for a game where healers werent god mode and could actually fall behind in healing, instead of the current game of CC healer burst hard get CD, CC healer burst hard get next CD, CC healer burst hard kill target.

I actually do play both and a Rogue actually. Unholy isn't complicated, never said it was. But it definitely has a higher skill floor than a Warrior. Skill cap is about the same though.

[Korgoth]

How long does it take without CDs to heal someone from 10% to full. 2-4s. Now how long without CDs to dps them from 100 to 10%, 10s+. Which makes you need CCs to deal with that period, or burst to shorten it considerably.

Healing needs to line up with sustained pressure, not burst, and burst should line up against defensive CDs. That healing through burst is possible proves it's overpowered.

[Ragaflask]

You're misunderstanding him. He's basically saying that if you nerfed healing, there wouldn't need to be ridiculous burst in the game. Which is somewhat true because healers are easily the most powerful and most responsible role in the game.

I think the stat squish is going to fix the healing and damage issues though. But we'll see.


I actually do play both and a Rogue actually. Unholy isn't complicated, never said it was. But it definitely has a higher skill floor than a Warrior. Skill cap is about the same though.

Very interesting, you are making great points. So from experience lets say if you are running with a healer and ret paladin in the group would you take a unholy DK, rogue or warrior? Also lets say if you are just messing around in threes and wanting to mongo a group with 3 dps, what would you pair with a feral druid and ret paladin?

[Korgoth]

You take a rogue, Smoke Bomb > Everything in triple dps.

[Ragaflask]

You take a rogue, Smoke Bomb > Everything in triple dps.

Hmm i believe i can understand why, plus they can cause some pressure outside of smoke bomb I'm sure?

[Korgoth]

Hmm i believe i can understand why, plus they can cause some pressure outside of smoke bomb I'm sure?

Massive pressure, and utility, Nerve Strike is ridiculous. With a good setup, tricks on the pally + wings + bomb + kindey with the damage debuff, the target should die, or trinket and pop massive CDs, or pop an immunity. Game shouldnt last that long.

I played some WRM, if you want triple dps to work you can't be not killing people or forcing every CD in bomb.

[Ragaflask]

Massive pressure, and utility, Nerve Strike is ridiculous. With a good setup, tricks on the pally + wings + bomb + kindey with the damage debuff, the target should die, or trinket and pop massive CDs, or pop an immunity. Game shouldnt last that long.

I played some WRM, if you want triple dps to work you can't be not killing people or forcing every CD in bomb.

Hmm I might have to start to studying rogues a bit closely. I've been maining a WW monk and I wonder i should try it out, I've been successful against rogues but I can tell if a rogue knows what it's doing it can juggle through my defenses.

[Korgoth]

Hmm I might have to start to studying rogues a bit closely. I've been maining a WW monk and I wonder i should try it out, I've been successful against rogues but I can tell if a rogue knows what it's doing it can juggle through my defenses.

I'd suggest watching some Twitch.tv streams or vods from good rogue players. Pikaboo, RZN, hell even Snutzr.