Blizzard doesn't care enough about PvP Balance.

[nyc81991]

I feel like it is one of the main things that are wrong with WoW at the moment. I am not saying they don't try to balance things at all, However they obviously don't make it a main priority.

Most Balance changes happen in major patches. Outside of that there are very minor tweaks and bug fixes. If they really cared about making a balanced game they would make serious changes all of the time. They could even be using the PTR for balance testing to get some feedback on whether a change is overkill or not enough.

For example, Most people agree that Warriors are too strong at the moment. Even the other day Holinka acknowledged that Warriors and Frost Mages are Fotm. Where are the changes bringing them in line with other classes / specs? Or why aren't they bringing the classes at the bottom up so they can more easily compete? My under geared Warrior's slams hit harder than my geared Paladins Templar's Verdicts. How does that make sense?

There is really no excuse for them not to be making more of an effort to balance PvP. Especially when there are no new content patches coming out this expansion and WoD is still quite a while away.

[Rucati]

Things are actually pretty balanced, to be honest. Mage/Rogue synergy is broken, but it always is so that's nothing new. Warriors are fotm because they're easy to do well with, not because they're overpowered. People bitch about them because they pop every CD they have and Bladestorm and it's "unstoppable" because people don't know how to use their abilities to get away, which every single class can do.

Frost Mages need to be nerfed, sure. Nerf Ice Lance damage by 20%, Frostfire Bolt by 10% and buff Frostbolt by 40%, problem solved. But Mages are only really broken when paired with Warriors or Rogues, because of Skull Banner and Prey on the Weak/Tricks of the Trade respectively. All they really need to do is remove CD stacking the way it is, which obviously can't happen right now, but they've already said they want to do in the next expansion.

Honestly, I'd take it now over Cata any day of the weak. All 5 healers are viable, and every DPS aside from probably Moonkins are viable. That's pretty damn balanced as far as I'm concerned.

[dinouille]

PRETTY BALANCED?

my god ! i play since vanilla


i got multi glad with 3 different classes and for me, it's the WORSE SEASON EVER, and the WORSE XPAC when talking about balance ... it's HORRIBLE

i use to be able to top ladder without having to wear the best gear of the game, now, you just can't, gear >>>>>>>>> skill... and classes are just brocken, aoe everywhere, 984894189 sec dot's, instant cast, 48949494 cc for every class .... no man, you can't say that, sorry

the probleme is not damage ... no offense here but, honestly, have you ever play this game competitively ?

every xpac is worse and worse and worse

sry bad english

[Rucati]

PRETTY BALANCED?

my god ! i play since vanilla


i got multi glad with 3 different classes and for me, it's the WORSE SEASON EVER, and the WORSE XPAC when talking about balance ... it's HORRIBLE

i use to be able to top ladder without having to wear the best gear of the game, now, you just can't, gear >>>>>>>>> skill... and classes are just brocken, aoe everywhere, 984894189 sec dot's, instant cast, 48949494 cc for every class .... no man, you can't say that, sorry

the probleme is not damage ... no offense here but, honestly, have you ever play this game competitively ?

Wow, what? Try that again.

Gear matters, of course, it has *always* mattered and if you think otherwise you are provably wrong. Play on a BC server, get full Brutal gear, fight someone with full Brutal and Warglaives, you'll get trashed. Gear has always been more important than skill, it's an RPG, that's how it works. And with the catch up mechanic you can get plenty of gear plenty fast enough. My Priest hit 90 about 3 weeks ago and I'm already 2k rated on him, so in 3 weeks I grinded a full set of Tyrannical gear from BGs, then grinded arenas and got my 10k or whatever it was Conquest Cap finished, and then started actually playing with a 509 ilvl. Gear is important, but it's not the end all be all.

AoE everywhere? Except, not really. There's hardly any AoE right now, aside from DKs and Aff Locks nothing else does strong AoE damage consistently. DoTs are no longer than they were before. Only certain classes have mostly instants, HPaladins and Mages for example, because they wouldn't actually get casts off otherwise. And CC isn't that bad if you have good teammates and know how to avoid it.

If you were actually multi glad with 3 classes you'd know how to avoid the CC and see it coming, it's far from impossible. No offense here, but don't talk about being gladiator when it's clear that's not the case.

[Knslyr]

Warriors are fotm because they're easy to do well with, not because they're overpowered. People bitch about them because they pop every CD they have and Bladestorm and it's "unstoppable" because people don't know how to use their abilities to get away, which every single class can do.

Yea.. I have a really hard time to get away from warriors as a SPriest. Sure, I can Disperse for 6 seconds during Blade Storm/reckless. But after that I don't have much to do with all spell reflects, double interrupts, double charge, heroic leap and constant slow on me.

[nyc81991]

Things are actually pretty balanced, to be honest. Mage/Rogue synergy is broken, but it always is so that's nothing new. Warriors are fotm because they're easy to do well with, not because they're overpowered. People bitch about them because they pop every CD they have and Bladestorm and it's "unstoppable" because people don't know how to use their abilities to get away, which every single class can do.

Frost Mages need to be nerfed, sure. Nerf Ice Lance damage by 20%, Frostfire Bolt by 10% and buff Frostbolt by 40%, problem solved. But Mages are only really broken when paired with Warriors or Rogues, because of Skull Banner and Prey on the Weak/Tricks of the Trade respectively. All they really need to do is remove CD stacking the way it is, which obviously can't happen right now, but they've already said they want to do in the next expansion.

Honestly, I'd take it now over Cata any day of the weak. All 5 healers are viable, and every DPS aside from probably Moonkins are viable. That's pretty damn balanced as far as I'm concerned.

The game is pretty far from being balanced. And my point is that Blizzard isn't doing much at all to make it better. They should be constantly making balance changes where they are needed instead of waiting until major patches to do anything.

Even looking at things like Talents. Some classes have tiers of talents where one of the three have been the only viable choice this entire expansion. People have asked Blizzard to make the other talents stronger to there is some choice and for the most part they have ignored doing anything. If Balance was important to them these things would be getting fixed.

[corebit]

Blizzard doesn't care enough about PvP Balance.

I heard this complaint every single arena season, and even before that.

[Senathor]

They never have and never will.

- - - Updated - - -

I heard this complaint every single arena season, and even before that.

It's quite true. I mean the developers don't even play the game and yet they think they know what's going on.

[dinouille]

how can you avoid instant cc? i'm not playing against bot you know ... honestly, just tel me how to avoid cc, i send you all my money if you tell me how avoid a chain of full INSTANT CC

and yeah, you could beat full brutal + warglaive rogue, cuz i did, ok is was very hard, and not fair, but NOT IMPOSSIBLE

ofc stuff matter, i didnt say that, but the probleme is, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE STUFF, 99% is stuff ! it's to mutch!

now it's IMPOSSIBLE, even if the guy who have the warglaive play with his dick!

no point lying about my multi glad, but ok if you don't believe me, what can i do x)

[Heyer]

May LoS be your friend.

[Veyne]

PRETTY BALANCED?

my god ! i play since vanilla


i got multi glad with 3 different classes and for me, it's the WORSE SEASON EVER, and the WORSE XPAC when talking about balance ... it's HORRIBLE

i use to be able to top ladder without having to wear the best gear of the game, now, you just can't, gear >>>>>>>>> skill... and classes are just brocken, aoe everywhere, 984894189 sec dot's, instant cast, 48949494 cc for every class .... no man, you can't say that, sorry

the probleme is not damage ... no offense here but, honestly, have you ever play this game competitively ?

every xpac is worse and worse and worse

sry bad english

I don't PvP. I think it's pointless. But I have tons of in game friends that have been hardcore PvPers since TBC, and pretty much all of them agree that class balance is pretty solid at the moment in equal gear. And yes, gear has been a major contributor to PvP success since Resilience was implemented. And these are multi-glad people as well. The only real complaint they have is far too much CC, which even Blizzard admits.

But regardless, PvP has never been and won't ever be the main priority for Blizzard. This has always been and always will be predominantly a PvE game. That being said, they DO give PvP a HELL of a lot more attention now than they ever have in the past.

[Hyve]

This topic is always brought up, and nothing new ever comes from it.

PvP is far more balanced today, then it was years ago, but unless they separate PvE & PvP Abilities, I don't see how there could be any real balance in the game at all. Balancing numbers is easy enough, if you asked Blizzard to simply balance them, that'd be done by now, but asking them to keep it interesting, exciting, complex and balanced is the hard part.

Making all the numbers evenly distributed is easy, doing so with the amount of abilities, class and specialisations is not. Unless you want a game that has Attack & Strong Attack, and everyone has the same Health, and does the same damage in the same way, you'll never get PvP Balance in World of Warcraft.

[Yunru]

Eh i play wow since vanila and i can tell you this:
A) They will never balance classes
B) Having some other classes being better for a time makes players switch
C) Every player that goes from a start to lvl a new OP pvp class is profit for blizzard
D) Racials get reworked all the time, not because of balance but because of money (see human racial)
E) I miss starshards on my priest
F) Due to stat changes every expansion (removing armor pent, removing resilance, limiting players power) makes some classes less powerfull than others,
but then its a new patch that makes them OP .... logic? = money?

[Deleted]

I agree.

First of all though, we must be fair and give it to Blizzard because at this very moment every class/spec can reach high ratings in pvp. Sure some of them have a hard time, but everything works, both healer, dps, and comp wise (except some crazy ones ofc).
But I feel that pvp should be addressed much more thoroughly. For example, a more careful examination of the current state of the season, which would allow a quicker response to balance issues. People rolling FOTM to get gladiator and then sitting for the rest of the season, or simply people rolling specific classes because they make grabbing 2k/glad title much easier seems...wrong.
Of course there's always variation in every season, but what about the same old elite classes? Mages, warriors, warlocks are just examples of a solid class that you can always use confident that you're in a good spot. I'd like to see more rets, monks, holy priests (the whole expac for a change), demo warlocks, dks, etc etc. I mean, the fact that people tell you "if you (healer) got a warrior, you totally need this and this" is a sign that some classes just bring much more than others. RMP was OP at some point, but it was because of the synergy. Nowadays doesn't even matter what you take, in the sense that if you can burst, you're good to go.

One last thing: content. We should have more tournaments/pvp events/pvp dailies/bgs rewards. Pvp has so much and while it's predominant in the game, that doesn't mean Blizzard wouldn't rip the fruit if they gave the pvp community more. It shouldn't be hard to implement things like "cap twice as fast" or "free bandages in bgs" or other stuff like that (maybe a secondary professions with a huge cost that would work as engineering but 100% pvp oriented).
In WoD people will rush to try the new dungeons, then the new raids, the quests, etc etc. What will pvpers do? Try 1 or 2 bgs (new arenas don't count because they are just texture content), and a "special" type of arena, which adds nothing new but faster queues.

Even pve players (like myself) can see that pvp players get much less than they deserve.

[Deleted]

The game has always been unbalanced, you'll just have to find a way to overcome the unbalance. There's always a way to win. Except versus a shaman KFC with a goat. That shit's unbeatable.

[Logiks]

The game is pretty far from being balanced. And my point is that Blizzard isn't doing much at all to make it better. They should be constantly making balance changes where they are needed instead of waiting until major patches to do anything.

Even looking at things like Talents. Some classes have tiers of talents where one of the three have been the only viable choice this entire expansion. People have asked Blizzard to make the other talents stronger to there is some choice and for the most part they have ignored doing anything. If Balance was important to them these things would be getting fixed.

Have you read about what they're doing for arena in WoD? If not, I would recommend doing so and then thinking about what side effects it will have. Basically they are leveling the playing field by GIVING YOU FULL PVP GEAR (remember this phrase in caps, it's important soon) to put more of a focus on skill. If they give you full pvp gear and they are seeing that Class 'X' is too over/under powered, they can just alter the stats on the premade gear sets to adjust... easiest fixes in the history of pvp balance.

[Deleted]

tbh they dont even care about proper PvE balance. For all I see, if they make a kind-off balance on the LFR-level they think they did a good job.

[Wildtree]

PRETTY BALANCED?

my god ! i play since vanilla


i got multi glad with 3 different classes and for me, it's the WORSE SEASON EVER, and the WORSE XPAC when talking about balance ... it's HORRIBLE

i use to be able to top ladder without having to wear the best gear of the game, now, you just can't, gear >>>>>>>>> skill... and classes are just brocken, aoe everywhere, 984894189 sec dot's, instant cast, 48949494 cc for every class .... no man, you can't say that, sorry

the probleme is not damage ... no offense here but, honestly, have you ever play this game competitively ?

every xpac is worse and worse and worse

sry bad english

So you think it was better balanced when you were able to top the ladders in shitty gear?
All I read from your post is, I cannot top the ladders anymore, the game is horrible.
To me that however sounds like it actually IS balanced better than ever before.

The more balance there is, the more variety there is, and the more difficult it is to climb up in meters/ranks to the top for everyone.

anyhow, there won't be a perfect balance at all.
The only way would be what Blizzard is reluctant to do. And that is to tread PVP and PVE as separate entities. For as long as that's not the case, there can't be balance. Because what you may want for PVP may at the same time just completely ruin a boss encounter in a current raid.
Given how Blizzard has to tip toe around both aspects of the game, I think they do a pretty decent job.
Not a perfect job though, that could only happen if they'd make 2 sets of spells and abilities for each class/spec. But they've stated why they don't want to do that.
It's a valid reason, even if one doesn't agree with it.

[Thelxi]

They care too much. Fatigue pvp power and all that crap will do more harm than good in the long run.

[Wildtree]

tbh they dont even care about proper PvE balance. For all I see, if they make a kind-off balance on the LFR-level they think they did a good job.

The problem I just said lies in the same set of spells and abilities for both PVP and PVE...
They tweak PVP and it messes with PVE impact.. of course the other way around too..