Dishonorable kills

[Hyve]

I think it'd be nice to add in, if it had no effect on the player themselves.

Just a counter, to see how many they've accumulated, rather then a punishment system.

[wych]

No one's crying about PvP happening on a PvP realm, it's about idiots with no skill using the fact that it's a PvP realm as an excuse to kill people who could never hope to fight back. A dishonor system could easily work:

If someone's more than 10 levels lower than you, you can't initiate damage unless you use a directed attack (meaning you can't accidentally kill someone with aoe, nor they jump into your aoe deliberately. However, once you hit them with a direct attack assuming they survive it, they become vulnerable to all of your abilities. From there, on obtaining a killing blow on someone 10 or more levels lower you start a 30 second count down. At the end of which you suffer a stack-able debuff starting at 5 minutes per lower level player you killed in that that 30 seconds where all of your stats and gear are reduced to that of the lowest level of any players you killed more than 10 levels below your own. From here, you get what you claimed to want all along - PvP at the same level as the person you just ganked. If they kill you they can add an additional 5 minutes to your debuff a maximum of 3 times (15 minutes total regardless of how many you killed). For interests sake cap the lowbie ganking debuff to 45 minutes along with the possible 15 minutes of extensions to an absolute max of 60 minutes.

Should a higher level player gank you in your lower state, you're still whatever level you started with, so it will not debuff them, but it will not yield honor. Should you at 90 gank a level 70 first, then scaled to 70 gank a 50, a new 30 second timer will start and you will go down to 50, however your 60 minute maximum debuff will not be reset, however you will get closer to the maximum because of the additional 5 minutes from said kill.

Congrats, a system where you get a free kill on people, followed by having to fight them at their own level. Gankers should be delighted that they get that PvP they were hoping for, since it was their aim when they killed someone 82 levels lower than them, not just being a dick.

Tough shit.

World PvP isn't about being on an equal footing, it's a brutal world full of potential danger. I find it exciting when leveling an alt on a PvP realm because of the constant threat which isn't otherwise present in the world.

I might see a lvl 90 come sniffing around, and i'll run and hide behind or inside a building and hope they don't see me. It adds another element to the game

People use it as an excuse to kill people who can't win? Should we ban people from fighting if they massively outgear them or if they are lower than 50% health too? Or if they're fighting a few mobs at the time?

If you want fair PvP go into a PvE realm and fight in BGs. A PvP realm is a jungle, a dangerous place where you can die at any junction where you have to consider if it's even safer to stay on the roads or better to run through a bunch of mobs instead.

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

Unless i'm mistaken didn't Dishonourable kills only come into play when you killed enemy village NPCs? Although I didn't care about my rank too much I just killed the shit out of people.

Anyway if you can't handle ganking, roll PvE server

If you want to avoid it go and play a PvE realm.

It's the way of the jungle on PvP realms

Hey, I welcome anyone that feels ganking a level 20 when they are level 90 to please put your character name and realm up; since you love pvp so much, and PvP realms are all about PvP, I'm sure you wouldn't mind more PvP to go with your PvP.

Or ... is it more in the line you like being a bully and are afraid of a fair fight? 'I'm gonna punch a baby because someone who even approaches equal footing might kill me'.

Yep, that is all I see in those comments. People aren't complaining about being ganked by someone within a few levels of them. They complain about idiots with nothing better to do than one shot people to make them feel 'bigger'. If those people had -any- chance of putting up a fight and defeating them, they wouldn't do it.

I have no problems with ganking and getting ganked, it is a healthy part of a PvP realm, and I think for a lot of people, it could improve the overall engagement in the world (though some just don't have the heart for it). But, it is only truly 'PvP' if there is a fight to be had. I'm all for short term harassment though, say MC/fear bombing lowbies without doing damage to them, possibly them pulling mobs and those mobs kill them; that is still a fighting chance to survive, run away, etc. I just don't see me hitting fel flame and one shotting a level 20 to be 'fun' for either me or the victim; almost seems psychopathic to me to methodically attack and harass the weakest possible people you can find, and get joy in making them rage quit or otherwise cause severe stress to them. That seems more than just toxic to the game, and something to do with deeper seeded issues.

Say I'm level 63, I'd still gank a 60, but if I was 70, I'd just MC/Fear a 58 fresh in Hellfire for a minute or two and go about my way. I'd feel that was a strong warning to watch their back and pay attention to their surroundings ... but I wouldn't just camp them for 30 minutes for no reason than to be a douchebag. If I was 90 and I found a 90 not paying attention, and I could MC them off a cliff, I'd probably do it every time I felt like engaging in PvP. No remorse. I still wouldn't camp the same player for 30 minutes ... unless they deserved it (by camping lowbies or just really bad PvPers).


It is a reason more people just do instances on PvP realms, making the world empty; by not having some sort of protection for the lowbies against insurmountable threats like people 10+ levels above them that they can't hit, and even if they did everything right, no escape. That isn't PvP, that is just pure slaughter. So I'd support a dishonorable rating ... max it out, no conquest points for current lockout and the next. Each time they hit the break point, another week is added on. That would wake them up really fast ... because I'm guessing these are the same people who -need- the gear to make up for lack of skill. Add in a certain level of dishonor and your own guards will attack you for causing dishonor to your faction.

I mean seriously; you wanted to lynch Garrosh for nuking a city and killing indiscriminately ... well, we have players who are in essence killing the youngest and weakest and it is okie dokie.

Blizz has some lowbie gankers in their ranks, only reason I can see them allowing it; instead of supporting same-level pvp that would help keep new players from getting frustrated (some won't even think of rerolling on a pve realm) and think the game is broken and leave. People would have reasonable expectation that if they are in a level 30 pvp zone, that there is a chance to pvp against people around level 30 +-5 levels, not someone that is 60 levels above them.

Oh, and don't bitch at PvP realm populations and faction imbalances if you partake in this. It is one of the major causes of it. 'Don't like it, go to a pve realm' ... they are ... or are getting smart and checking balance and going with the 'winning' team because not many want to be outnumbered 20+ to 1.

[georef]

I think they should give hk's for any level. But I love to grief lowbies in duskwood when im waiting for BG ques.

[Captain N]

I like all the people saying that they killed lowbies because "That's how WPvP Started" its the same excuse as to why people claimed they twinked out rogues in the 11-19 and 21-29 level range years ago. You can lie about challenge and how you hope it will put you against people with equal footing...However it usually means you're terrible and you need to make yourself feel better by beating up on those who have no chance of winning. If Blizzard brought back Dishonorable Kills the way the OP mentions...it would do little more than make the vocal minority on PvP Realms cry about how Blizzard doesn't care about PvP and only wants people to concentrate on PvE and how it's not fair that they can't start the "Epic WPvP Battles" like back in Vanilla.

[Draknalor186]

just make them loose RBG/arena rating or just simply loose conquest points if you kill someone at grey level

[Deleted]

--World of Warcraft Manual

You really shouldn't believe everything you read in a manual

[Deleted]

Anyway if you can't handle ganking, roll PvE server

PvP is ok when you killl (or gank) someone who can kill you otherwise its just a vile spending time while you are boring. In that case you should logout.

- - - Updated - - -

I like all the people saying that they killed lowbies because "That's how WPvP Started" its the same excuse as to why people claimed they twinked out rogues in the 11-19 and 21-29 level range years ago. You can lie about challenge and how you hope it will put you against people with equal footing...However it usually means you're terrible and you need to make yourself feel better by beating up on those who have no chance of winning. If Blizzard brought back Dishonorable Kills the way the OP mentions...it would do little more than make the vocal minority on PvP Realms cry about how Blizzard doesn't care about PvP and only wants people to concentrate on PvE and how it's not fair that they can't start the "Epic WPvP Battles" like back in Vanilla.

I agree with you Sir

[wych]

Hey, I welcome anyone that feels ganking a level 20 when they are level 90 to please put your character name and realm up; since you love pvp so much, and PvP realms are all about PvP, I'm sure you wouldn't mind more PvP to go with your PvP.

Or ... is it more in the line you like being a bully and are afraid of a fair fight? 'I'm gonna punch a baby because someone who even approaches equal footing might kill me'.

Yep, that is all I see in those comments. People aren't complaining about being ganked by someone within a few levels of them. They complain about idiots with nothing better to do than one shot people to make them feel 'bigger'. If those people had -any- chance of putting up a fight and defeating them, they wouldn't do it.

I have no problems with ganking and getting ganked, it is a healthy part of a PvP realm, and I think for a lot of people, it could improve the overall engagement in the world (though some just don't have the heart for it). But, it is only truly 'PvP' if there is a fight to be had. I'm all for short term harassment though, say MC/fear bombing lowbies without doing damage to them, possibly them pulling mobs and those mobs kill them; that is still a fighting chance to survive, run away, etc. I just don't see me hitting fel flame and one shotting a level 20 to be 'fun' for either me or the victim; almost seems psychopathic to me to methodically attack and harass the weakest possible people you can find, and get joy in making them rage quit or otherwise cause severe stress to them. That seems more than just toxic to the game, and something to do with deeper seeded issues.

Say I'm level 63, I'd still gank a 60, but if I was 70, I'd just MC/Fear a 58 fresh in Hellfire for a minute or two and go about my way. I'd feel that was a strong warning to watch their back and pay attention to their surroundings ... but I wouldn't just camp them for 30 minutes for no reason than to be a douchebag. If I was 90 and I found a 90 not paying attention, and I could MC them off a cliff, I'd probably do it every time I felt like engaging in PvP. No remorse. I still wouldn't camp the same player for 30 minutes ... unless they deserved it (by camping lowbies or just really bad PvPers).


It is a reason more people just do instances on PvP realms, making the world empty; by not having some sort of protection for the lowbies against insurmountable threats like people 10+ levels above them that they can't hit, and even if they did everything right, no escape. That isn't PvP, that is just pure slaughter. So I'd support a dishonorable rating ... max it out, no conquest points for current lockout and the next. Each time they hit the break point, another week is added on. That would wake them up really fast ... because I'm guessing these are the same people who -need- the gear to make up for lack of skill. Add in a certain level of dishonor and your own guards will attack you for causing dishonor to your faction.

I mean seriously; you wanted to lynch Garrosh for nuking a city and killing indiscriminately ... well, we have players who are in essence killing the youngest and weakest and it is okie dokie.

Blizz has some lowbie gankers in their ranks, only reason I can see them allowing it; instead of supporting same-level pvp that would help keep new players from getting frustrated (some won't even think of rerolling on a pve realm) and think the game is broken and leave. People would have reasonable expectation that if they are in a level 30 pvp zone, that there is a chance to pvp against people around level 30 +-5 levels, not someone that is 60 levels above them.

Oh, and don't bitch at PvP realm populations and faction imbalances if you partake in this. It is one of the major causes of it. 'Don't like it, go to a pve realm' ... they are ... or are getting smart and checking balance and going with the 'winning' team because not many want to be outnumbered 20+ to 1.

You can cry all you want but as I pointed out above it adds an interesting element to the realm, it adds a fear factor when leveling, you're constantly on your toes and never feel safe even on the roads. I see a level 90 flying overhead and I immediately run into the barn nearby, even if it means I pull another 3 mobs, then hope they haven't seen me.

Even at same level, world PvP often isn't fair.

If 3 people are going around together killing lvl 90s should they be getting dishonourable kills too? Since it's just a slaughter and not really PvP by your definition?

[Zoofro]

I recently rolled a rogue on Illidan-Horde to break my curse of the rogue in WoW (never able to get one fully max level). Anyways, while I was in Hellfire I was camped continuously for a good 20 minutes and killed 6x in a row by the same level 90 Night Elf Rogue (who shall remain nameless). I've always been a 'rager' but since embarking on this journey I have been taking this behavior a lot better. All I simply did was ask in general chat if other 90 Hordies were around to help. They came by and destroyed the 90 and everyone moved on.

I'm not saying what I did is right or wrong or that their behavior is substantiated but there are avenues you can take to get some help in that situation. It did however make me think that this guy griefing us lowbies in Hellfire couldn't stand a chance against any 90s just goes to show why he feels he needs to take it out on the lowbies.

[Ragnarohk]

IMO, they should implement such system to world PvP. Killing a low level once or twice is fine (I've done it myself and others have done it to me) , however what's the point of griefing such player for hours? To stroke your e-peen?

I play for both teams, and most of the time I apply the "if it's red, it's dead" mentality, however I don't have to humiliate people and harass them just because I can, IMO the honorable thing to do (and that's what I do) is kill a person once, twice or even three times and then wait for him/her to re spawn and /bow.

You already proved that you are "vastly superior" why can't people just stop and move on?
As a side note, I usually do the same to somebody that killed me a few times in a row, just /bow and the person usually bows back in respect and leaves.

People have to distinguish between real world pvp and griefing, a real pvper would't consider killing a low player over and over again as world pvp, that's just being an a-hole

Side note:
I mostly play in an RP-PVP realm btw. And while sometimes I can be a "carebear" (mind control + buff/heal players from opposing faction) I also encourage world pvp (like leading a counter raid against my own guild's attack on orgrimmar or SW). My point is, have fun, just don't be a dick with others (aka griefing)

[Deleted]

I'm currently farming the camel mount in Uldum and I gank every single alliance that I can bring down no matter his level. I rarely camp people but anyone that I can find I'll do my best to kill. Real ID is makes it all worthwhile when people tell me about my apparent small penis, slutty mom and no quality of life.
Of course when that happens they get on my /target macro for the rest of the day.
This is going to wind people up but if you can't handle ganking PvP servers aren't for you, it's really as simple as that.

Dishonourable kills seems stupid to me, is it dishonourable to kill someone with 470 ilvl while you've got 570? It's a war between the factions, deal with it.

[Deleted]

I wish they would add disshonorable kills like it was in vanilla.. then suckas wont kill low lvls on pvp realms.. VOTE!

As said before if u dont wanna get ganked dont roll on a PVP realm.... otherwise theres only one rule acceptable on pvp realms:
"If its Red then its dead!"

[Gwiez]

DHKs dissuaded people from doing things like raiding enemy cities. I remember being in an Undercity raid that fell apart because a couple of people thought it would be funny to get everyone in the raid some DHKs.

Being able to attack lower level characters does serve a purpose on pvp realms, even if its often used to gank lowbies. It's so if your lowbie is being camped by some mid-level (or just better geared toons of the same level, or out numbered by toons of the same level, etc) then you can call in reinforcements from your guild, from your main, or from random strangers in the zone.

Also, you can keep lowbies from coming in and stealing the ore at the edge of the zone. Also, STV. In STV everyone is supposed to kill lowbies, even if the player is courteous everywhere else.

Seriously, just play on a pve server if you can't put up with the danger of being ganked for a little while. Congrats, you don't need some convoluted system that makes lowbies able to grief higher characters.

[Anzaman]

As said before if u dont wanna get ganked dont roll on a PVP realm..

I'd so transfer to a server which would have "fair" World PvP, where PvP would be limited to certain level-range to prevent level 90's from swooping down and killing the leveler. A lowbie could still start a fight but high level couldn't one-shot him/her.

I joined for PvP realm because I wanted max level open world combat, not getting one-shotted by some bored jerk.

[Ragnarohk]

I'd so transfer to a server which would have "fair" World PvP, where PvP would be limited to certain level-range to prevent level 90's from swooping down and killing the leveler. A lowbie could still start a fight but high level couldn't one-shot him/her.

I joined for PvP realm because I wanted max level open world combat, not getting one-shotted by some bored jerk.

I agree, I love world pvp when characters are the same level. It's exciting to find a player of the opposing faction while you're questing in Tanaris or w/e
I don't know why people equate PvP realm to ganking, like as if they are synonyms. Killing a player =/= ganking. Why must people kill players over and over when obviously they are at a disadvantage?

[Tziva]

I don't mind the concept of DHK being tracked, but I haaaated how it impacted you in vanilla, especially since all it took was one guy in your raid group ganking the Southshore flightmaster than bam, don't expect to make rank this week.

But then, if you add DHK without the penalty, then what's the point?

[GhostShaman]

If you want to avoid it go and play a PvE realm.

It's the way of the jungle on PvP realms

He does bring up a good point. DHKs could subtract from their Honor or arena rating and if it gets low enough, they cant wear the gear anymore. Potential solution.

[wych]

He does bring up a good point. DHKs could subtract from their Honor or arena rating and if it gets low enough, they cant wear the gear anymore. Potential solution.

It's a solution to something which isn't an actual problem

[Abysal]

Anyway if you can't handle ganking, roll PvE server

I actually think it could be a cool idea if implemented properly. Perhaps a system showing who from the other faction has been racking up a lot of "dishonor" lately so that that player can incur the wrath of max level players on his opposing faction. It would bring an element of RP that this game is lacking.

I don't necessarily think you need to lose honor or something like that, but it'd be cool if being a lowbie ganker gave you a bad rep in the world. Perhaps the worse your dishonor, the further NPC guards will pursue you just another idea.