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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    I don't know how many times I've raged quit because we wiped on trash or really easy bosses, just because the majority doesn't understand or want to follow mechanics.
    Rage quitting isn't going to help anyone understand or follow mechanics. A wipe is the best teacher of all. Players are much more inclined to listen to advice after a wipe. No one wants to repeat the wipe again.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Rage quitting isn't going to help anyone understand or follow mechanics. A wipe is the best teacher of all. Players are much more inclined to listen to advice after a wipe. No one wants to repeat the wipe again.
    If only there wasn't a buff for every wipe people could also learn bosses. But wait, that would mean getting better.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    You really don't know anything about the new expansion do you? First you said that we would be having 3 difficulties next expansion and now you don't know about the item squish.
    You do realize that the expansion doesn't even have a release date, right? The item squish was supposed to come this expansion, but it didn't happen. They may say there's a squish next expansion, but until that happens, it's still just speculation even from Blizzard. You keep talking about the new expansion in the present tense as if it's already out. When it comes out then you can make comments about my ignorance, but until then you know as much about it as I do, even if I don't know anything about it. This is why I qualified my statement with "unless they actually go through with the item squish."
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  4. #424
    The Lightbringer Fullmetal89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Rage quitting isn't going to help anyone understand or follow mechanics. A wipe is the best teacher of all. Players are much more inclined to listen to advice after a wipe. No one wants to repeat the wipe again.

    I don't mean I rage quit after 1 wipe, I'm talking continuous failure even after the mechanics have been pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Pst. You can join your own group. Oh no how awful it is that you should be in a guild! Damn those creators trying to push guild interaction and all that.

    If Blizzards group making DOESN'T let you have requirements then it will fail horribly. I happen to like my Wing 4 heirloom farm runs and I'm not interested in inviting and kicking people because I cant demand AoTC.
    First off I didn't say I wasn't in a guild, second I know that I can make my own group that doesn't change the fact that If I try to run this on an alt it's very very difficult if guild isn't raiding. Trying to pug a Flex with an alt that has 530ish gear on my server is very difficult everyone wants 540+. I'm not talking about wing 4 either, just for Flex 1 and 2. It's not impossible to Flex, but it's far from casual imo.
    Last edited by Fullmetal89; 2013-12-20 at 08:51 PM.
    "I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. "
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  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    For me its fun when I can heal 250k per second and have people look at the meters and go, "Holy shit, how do you do that?"
    That I would notice. And that's what I respect in a player, how well they use the stuff they have.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Alternately, raids haven't been getting nerfed to any great degree while they're current tier which was the previous mechanism to encourage more people to raid. I'll bet you miss that. Right? Thought not.

    Enchanting? Come on.

    And I'm always amused by the argument that Raid Finder ruined the community. Something is always ruining the community. This is just the latest in a long, long list. People who post angry rants in which they dismiss bad players by insulting them and then turn around and bleat about how the community has gotten so terrible are so lacking in self-awareness that there's practically nothing one can say. You've been busy labeling people as 'shitters' and other things starting with a post on the first page of this thread and now you're complaining about how Raid Finder has damaged community? If I take your attitude here as an example of how you treat people in game, you get exactly the community you and others like you deserve.
    I know that raids are getting nerfed. But trying to get a ToT run off the ground instead of doing LFR is difficult, ToT is still significantly harder than LFR, and the gear is still sub-LFR. Sometimes there are ToT groups, but very rarely, and most are mount farm groups looking for high level players.

    The comment about enchanting is just saying that it does impact me, despite avoiding it like the plague. Now Timeless Isle is just as bad, same as other catchup heroics we have seen in the past, but LFR does offer the crafting pieces from previous patches, although that is more crafting than enchanting, which is why in 5.2 normal mode blood spirits were dirt cheap for the 496 gear they could craft. If we didn't have LFR, at least part of the expansion the enchanting market would be different, especially at the start when dungeons are mostly blue drops.

    I'm cynical, sue me. A description of their skill is no reflection of the community. Somebody playing like crap is playing like crap. The fact remains that when you have no need to group up, talk to others at all or even join a guild/pug and still complete the entire game in an MMO, there is a problem. LFG was bad but you still needed to work with others for raiding. Guilds are just for perks, not playing with others, you can down every boss in the game without typing in chat a single time. That is absolutely crushing the community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    I don't mean I rage quit after 1 wipe, I'm talking continuous failure even after the mechanics have been pointed out.



    First off I didn't say I wasn't in a guild, second I know that I can make my own group that doesn't change the fact that If I try to run this on an alt it's very very difficult if guild isn't raiding. Trying to pug a Flex with an alt that has 530ish gear on my server is very difficult everyone wants 540+. I'm not talking about wing 4 either, just for Flex 1 and 2. It's not impossible to Flex, but it's far from casual imo.
    It is completely casual because 540 is a casual item level right now.

    Legendary cloak+Ordos+Timeless+LFR is more than enough to get into 540, and all of that is casual content. And again, the 540 groups are not looking for progression, they have done their progression they are looking to farm. Don't join a farming group if you need to do progression. The problem since the beginning of the game is new players want to join groups instead of joining other new players and doing their own progression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    You do realize that the expansion doesn't even have a release date, right? The item squish was supposed to come this expansion, but it didn't happen. They may say there's a squish next expansion, but until that happens, it's still just speculation even from Blizzard. You keep talking about the new expansion in the present tense as if it's already out. When it comes out then you can make comments about my ignorance, but until then you know as much about it as I do, even if I don't know anything about it. This is why I qualified my statement with "unless they actually go through with the item squish."
    No there IS a squish next expansion they have already announced it and it was working at Blizzcon. They were looking at having a squish this expansion but they never promised anything. Its no longer something that is being discussed in meetings, it is already implemented.

    Release dates come out before game information right?

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The fact remains that when you have no need to group up, talk to others at all or even join a guild/pug and still complete the entire game in an MMO, there is a problem.
    You still have to group up to run LFR. The difference is that you're grouping up with random people. You still have to talk to others to win fights in LFR. The difference is that you have to speak to strangers. Why is it so bad that you can actually achieve limited success in a MMO by interacting with strangers? Where is the rule requiring you to play with the same 25 people week in and week out to "properly" play a MMO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    That is absolutely crushing the community.
    No it's not. What's crushing the community is players who refuse to politely interact with strangers who may or may not be encountering content for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    It is completely casual because 540 is a casual item level right now.
    Your definition of casual differs from mine. 528 is casual. 540 is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Legendary cloak+Ordos+Timeless+LFR is more than enough to get into 540
    If you get extremely lucky with the Ordos kills, and those don't even begin until you've gotten the cloak. Also, casual players are going to spend an awfully long time grinding for that cloak. 10 sigils of power + 10 sigils of wisdom + loot the sha of fear + prince rep to exalted + 2 pvp battle ground victories + 3000 VP grind + commander blood hilt + 20 secrets of the empire + 40 trillium + lei shen + solo quest + nalak + 12 titan rune stones + 4 celestials is not something that is casually done over a couple of weeks. Once you've gotten the cloak, even assuming you're fully geared in LFR you have (15 * 528 + 602) / 16 = 532 ilevel. To get that up to
    540 you'll need to add a total of 118 ilevels to your gear. You can get up to 14 ilevels from upgrading so that's max upgrades on nine pieces of gear, or 4500 valor points. Yes, it is feasible to get 540 without running flex, but the process is far from casual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Release dates come out before game information right?
    Game information is unreliable until the release. The Adventures of Thrall was working and implemented but it was never released. Just because you saw it working and implemented at Blizzcon doesn't mean it will be in the final product. I've been following Blizzard games long enough (since 1995) to know that just because they say it will be one way doesn't mean it will be so.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    I'm willing to bet large portions of these people abusing others and then claiming the community is bad just miss people saying "cool mount"
    Bwahahaha exactly.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    If you're having to heal 250K per second there's either something wrong or you're solo healing. I've only ever broken 200k HPS in LFR because the tanks were failing hard, and that was in 520 gear. I understand feeling proud of your abilities, but gear is only partially responsible for that. I'm sure that having a HPS that high will get you invited back to groups often (provided it's not coming at the expense of obeying actual mechanics), but it's not going to get you "prestige" in real life.

    Ultimately, unless they actually go through with the item squish in WoD this time around, 250K will be laughably low next expansion.
    The 250k was in normal. And I agree, I'm not going to go around trying to get a job because "I can heal in wow so you should hire me!". Prestige is usually confined within the activity it is for (or to spectators of that activity). Someone could be a world champion dune buggy racer and I could give half a shit, cuz I don't care about dune buggy racing. I don't think any wow player expects any kind of prestige outside the wow community.

    I know its not all gear, but gear does help/limit your skill. I think they will go though with the stat squish, so we will probably be back to healing 20k/sec or something like that.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post

    Game information is unreliable until the release. The Adventures of Thrall was working and implemented but it was never released. Just because you saw it working and implemented at Blizzcon doesn't mean it will be in the final product. I've been following Blizzard games long enough (since 1995) to know that just because they say it will be one way doesn't mean it will be so.
    Gear squish is coming, even if it breaks the game in various places. The reason Garrosh needs 3 health pools is because he'd have more health than the maximum the games engine can support otherwise.
    They need to REALLY nerf peoples DPS, or bosses will need to have 20 health pools by the end of the xpac.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    It is completely casual because 540 is a casual item level right now.
    Sure, that's an item level that a "casual" player would have if she has a legendary cape and has mostly filled every other slot with upgraded SoO LFR gear.

    Although I'm not sure how casual that is.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Beyond that I could care less if they're wearing heroic warforged or greens from the MoP starter vendors. If they are nice and exhibit a positive attitude throughout the raid I'm happy to group with them.
    Even if they are doing 20k dps?

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Even if they are doing 20k dps?
    If the boss died I don't care about getting rid of "bads" except for the ones that are AFK not even keeping up with the group as it moves along. Those are probably the heroic raiders who are "too good" for LFR but who are "forced" to do it anyway for some reason.

    My usual reaction to someone posting recount and saying "OK kick XXX he did 23k" is to vote to kick the guy posting the recount, and I am usually not the first person to do it.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Just as it's difficult to see posters whose armories show them to be competent at heroic mode raiding proud of the fact that they can AFK through Raid Finder because they need a trinket. There's plenty of bad behavior/whining on both sides. I don't approve of any of it personally.
    I for one give it my all even when I step foot in an LF"R". There is really no benefit to being one of the scrubs that goes there to be carried, specially when they are geared to where they should be the ones doing the carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post


    I thought you were in the reserves. How did you get through basic training without getting your ass kicked?

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    6', 220 lbs, three black belts, 8 years experience full contact fighting, and willing to give as good as i get.

    as to throwing down the reserve card, you must only have experience in the newer kinder army of the present. my basic training was before the "its ok to be a degenerate" movement in the military.

    my first experience with someone taking offense to me in basic the drill sergeant locked us both in a barracks bay till we "worked it out".










    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post

    That's only because most people will only run with others in 540+ gear. I guarantee that if you ran Flex with 25 random players in 510 ilevel gear you would reconsider that statement.

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    Flex was not designed to be LF"R", or else your choice in who you group with would be removed just like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    And that's why they're scaling it back to three modes in WoD. Instead of easy, normal, hard, and super-hard they're just going to have easy, normal, and super-hard.
    actually incorrect, as the the new "heroic" mode will be nothing more than normal with a new name attached to it. per blue posts.

    so there will be

    super easy
    easy
    hard

    which granted they may take the steps needed to make hard mode, or mythic super hard however they have stated repeatedly that heroic will just be a face over of normal, or in better terms a sell out to entitled players who want to wear the name "heroic raider" without having earned it, much like LF"R" only players consider themselves raiders now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    TV and music are different. They require no input from the consumer, therefore there is no measurement of comparison. Dancing on the other hand: Yes I suck ass at dancing, therefore I choose not to partake in it. If i did decide to do it, I would put my all into it and really learn how. I retain my right to make fun of dumbasses that choose to publicly do things that they suck royal ass at. If you do something that others can witness and you are not good at it you should expect some amount of ridicule.
    you cannot win an argument agains someone who is going to compare going to a dance club which is not a competitive hobby to one that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Well having 4 modes isn't helping that transition be easier. If we didn't have a ton of different modes people wouldn't need to hear through LFR to gear through Flex to get into normal do they could do heroic. ToT is barely a viable gearing path right now, which is a shame.

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    absolutely correct. if someone wanted to step up to raiding in the past they maximized their toon the best they could outside of raid and got in as a pug or in an alt run of a competent guild and got some experience then moved up through some feeder guilds until they reached their level of competence.

    there was no need for hand me down candy land raiding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    I guarantee that 99% of those "dumbasses" are meeting many more members of the opposite sex than you are. Ridicule all you want, but your fear of ridicule is your problem. I know because my attitude was similar to yours in high school. Fear of looking "stupid" is a stupid reason to deprive yourself of fun. A secure, confident person isn't afraid to face a little ridicule. What's more, they don't have to ridicule others just to feel better about themselves.
    If I was busy meeting members of the opposite sex my 5'10 125 lb slovenian underwear model wife would become quite upset with me. So I will quite happily stay out of the bars and no longer come home with bruises and contusions from a tournament. I have earned my arm chair general time at WOW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Automatic View Post
    Did you put your all into the grammar of that post? Or did you insult yourself by making mistakes? Or were you forced into doing it at gun point?

    No offense meant, just being flippant.
    A good portion of posters on this forum do tend to be from countries where English is not the first language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Not 250k. Unless we're talking pesos or Zimbabwe currency. You don't make that sort of money as an incompetent nitwit.
    Well, yes you can. But that is certainly a topic for another thread.

    What is the salary of the president?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Likeability, negotiation skills, and leadership count for far more than one's ability to dance a virtual avatar into and out of virtual fire.
    Really? Likeability? Hi guys, let me tell you a nice fire side story. Are you comfortable? Do you have enough s'mores? You know what that raid leader gets? He gets players that show up 10 minutes late then bitch that they were sat and a raid that muddles down to nothing as 24 other alpha individuals walk all over him on the way to their next guild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Because the dungeon journal was implemented for the raiders who read Icyveins right?

    The problem IS with LFR because of the fact that it is a queue based system for content meant for a group cooperating
    All insults pointed at lack of capability to comprehend simple mechanics and how to react to them, that statement hits it on the head. LF"R" is designed so that you should be able to complete it with little or no organization whatsoever. THAT is why it brings on the ire of some players who are offended by it's mere existence as a means for others to obtain nearly what they have but for no investment.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  15. #435
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    Maybe I'm the luckiest bastard on the planet, but I've had exactly 1 horrible group in LFR. This was mostly due to 5 guildies lol-pulling shaman and the tanks refusing to follow the same strat. (One of the tanks being one of the guildies.) 8 stacks later, I was gone. The Irony here is that the organized uber-raiders (they were all 545+) were the reason it took almost 2 hours to get to Shaman. I've never had a fight go to more than three stacks outside of that. People have always followed the leader and gotten through relatively quickly. If you're constantly having problems with the community, perhaps the community isn't the problem.
    You either die a Varian, or live long enough to see yourself become a Thrall...

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Icy Veins is the Cliffs Notes for the dungeon journal. I wish that journal was as useful as Icy Veins. If every player didn't have to dig through 20 different descriptions to pick out the two or three crucial ones that they actually had any control over then it might actually have been useful. As it is you can read the dungeon journal all day, but unless you have a photographic memory and/or several fights' experience under your belt it's not going to do jack for you.

    If a raid is a logic puzzle then the dungeon journal is the series of facts that is laid out for you while Icy Veins is the filled-in logic chart. Just because you choose to memorize that logic chart up front doesn't make the person who opts to fill it in themselves a dumbass.
    Well, they incorporate ad dons that circumvent the way they intend queing to happen, they hire forum commentators to the Blue staff, who is to say that an icy-veins tab is not next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    So you're advising players to AFK on the trash between bosses in order to read the journal?
    No. Advising they read up on the four bosses they will be encountering in the wing they sat in que an hour to get in to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaltazarDZ View Post

    Which is often forgotten by those who have plenty of experience behind their belt. And here's the part why I think complainers are bad. Because they by no way try to improve the performance of the team. They do not explain the tactics (or where,who and why did wrong) in a sensible way but instead insult other people. They think that the simple fact of them attending the boss fight is all that's required from them. And what I want to say by that is....

    If you are not ready to raid in LFR with a group that most likely doesn't know what they are doing and can't be arsed to say more than "STFU Noob Tank/DPS/Healer" and simply don't have the balls to take up leadership of the group and share your experience then keep silent yourself and let other people do their best.

    .
    it is not a team activity.
    if it were a team activity I would either be prepared to explain to members of my team or bench them for not having read up before hand.

    ALL the tools you need to know the fights are in the dungeon journal. ALL of them. You need no external source in order to know if it is bad don't stand in it or if it is good do stand in it. The journal delineates these things in simple English, or I assume the language that your client is written in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post


    Not really. Blizzard is the problem because they don't sufficiently penalize individual players in an obvious manner for tunnelling Nazgrim. Instead everyone else pays for that player's failure in a manner that is not even intuitively connected to said failure. A better design for LFR would cause the player to get a stacking debuff that lowers their damage and ultimately stuns the player for thirty seconds every time the player hits him. Instead one guy beats on him and everyone else has to deal with the axes later. That's not not a "dumbass player" problem. That's a "dumbass designer" problem.
    sure. a mechanic that basically nullifies the fact that they are screwing up by removing them from play.

    have a reasonable idea to post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    indeed.. HC scenario gives 100 valor each (with the timed bonus ofc) and not counting the first(wich give even more) and each hc scenario take at max 15 min

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    then why use it as an example "LFR is so good i got 400 valor in 3hrs"
    i generally have no issue capping on a tuesday. the 1000 point cap is not well thought out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zozobra View Post
    I completely agree, but the current damage-based design of tanking just isn't fun for me.
    agree. it was great before they threw the nerf bat at us.
    why should I be able to swing the same sword, wearing the same gear and be told I cannot do relevant damage just because I am the on getting smacked on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    I can make my own group that doesn't change the fact that If I try to run this on an alt it's very very difficult if guild isn't raiding..

    B.S.

    99% of the flex raiding I did until I completely out geared flex was in groups that I either put together myself or joined, but had ZERO interaction with my guild in doing so. if I waited on my guild I would still be in nothing but the pieces I pick up from normal kills.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by BEYR View Post
    Maybe I'm the luckiest bastard on the planet, but I've had exactly 1 horrible group in LFR. This was mostly due to 5 guildies lol-pulling shaman and the tanks refusing to follow the same strat. (One of the tanks being one of the guildies.) 8 stacks later, I was gone. The Irony here is that the organized uber-raiders (they were all 545+) were the reason it took almost 2 hours to get to Shaman. I've never had a fight go to more than three stacks outside of that. People have always followed the leader and gotten through relatively quickly. If you're constantly having problems with the community, perhaps the community isn't the problem.
    The thing is, even if a run is going good I promise you, open up skada and you will see people pulling 20k dps, hell some people may not even be on the meters.

    It isn't really a problem as far as completing the instance, more the fact that people are not doing crap.

    If they were geared raiders, and 545 isnt all that good right now, then the question is why the other tank wasnt following the strat? Don't blame the raiders for insisting on their way when the other tank was doing the same thing

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The thing is, even if a run is going good I promise you, open up skada and you will see people pulling 20k dps, hell some people may not even be on the meters.

    It isn't really a problem as far as completing the instance, more the fact that people are not doing crap.

    If they were geared raiders, and 545 isnt all that good right now, then the question is why the other tank wasnt following the strat? Don't blame the raiders for insisting on their way when the other tank was doing the same thing
    The people who aren't doing crap will always be stuck in LFR. If that's their goal, then mission accomplished. If they want to move on to harder content, they will have to get off their ass and learn the strat. Either way, if the boss is dying in a timely manner it isn't really affecting you. And to answer your question, their start was to burn in place. Doesn't work on any level of shamans as far as I know. It became very clear by the time I left that they were just griefing the raid in the end.
    You either die a Varian, or live long enough to see yourself become a Thrall...

  19. #439
    This has been gone over many, many times and the ultimate conclusion is that what ails LFR is the community.

    Well, if that's truly the case as I and much of the community believes it is, then it is only the community that can fix it and that necessitates tools to fix it.

    I've advocated that Blizz can help by implementing many of the accountability tools that are in League of Legends. Plus, they are PUBLIC and the COMMUNITY votes. So, if you get bounced, it's by the community. If you post something horrible or behave badly, the community will step forward and make clear what behavior is appropriate, which is borderline and which is intolerable.

    I love tanking and have three tanks (Pally, DK and Monk) geared at least to iLvl 500. I'd spend all of my time tanking except for the community. I've been playing since Vanilla and have never experienced this level of antipathy of players...outright rage for gearing tanks during the first month, vitriol for tanks that aren't flawless in LFR (note: I'm not excusing exceptionally poor play here), etc.

    I finally just said, enough, and went with my hunter and sat 3 of my favorite toons.

    With the proper tools, the community can self-police. Unfortunately, Blizzard expects the community to self-police with rules like those that exist on Wall Street and then with little and lax enforcement and almost no punishment, we've seen the entire community suffer and the only answer from Blizz is that they refuse to allow the community a voice in fixing a problem that only they CAN fix.

    Blizz has certainly borrowed things from other devs. Now isn't the time for pride, it's the time for humility and community and reconciling ourselves to the notion that playing together means being responsible to and for one another (at least with respect to the game). WoW became strong because of the community first. For all of the horror stories, there are 10x more stories of folks being taught, nurtured and grown.

    I switched to my hunter to TRY and focus on the positive, but I'd like to spend more time on my tanks.

    That would require the community embracing a more positive attitude and I've not seen that, not even during Winter Veil, Xmas, Kwanzaa, or the early Hanukkah season...

    Maybe a Festivus celebration? I dunno, but unless the community embraces others in the community, it's like trees in the forest playing with matches... not the best plan...

  20. #440
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackeyser View Post
    I've advocated that Blizz can help by implementing many of the accountability tools that are in League of Legends. Plus, they are PUBLIC and the COMMUNITY votes. So, if you get bounced, it's by the community. If you post something horrible or behave badly, the community will step forward and make clear what behavior is appropriate, which is borderline and which is intolerable.
    While I think that you're on the right track it's not the only track and it's perfectly fair to point out that even with all of the stuff that LoL has done--stuff that I approve of--the community there is not exactly a bed of roses yet. Maybe someday.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

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