Put Immersion BACK Into The Game

[Stansyo]

Having only 3 posts, I can only assume your main posting account was banned recently and you are now trying to circumvent the forums. Please, allow me to report this post as harassment and allow MMOC to compare your account info. If this is not the case, up your post count and come back to see me.

i dont post on mmoc i just read it. ever so often i come open these kind of thread that just begs someone to call out the OP for what he really is. compare info all you like, is if i care.

was just my 2 cent. take it as it is

[-Superman-]

i dont post on mmoc i just read it. ever so often i come open these kind of thread that just begs someone to call out the OP for what he really is. compare info all you like, is if i care.

was just my 2 cent. take it as it is

Well then, Thank you for your input and please remain on topic. Insulting me is not the topic.

On Topic: Though the post was made with humor in mind, I do still miss TBC and experiencing each of these things. I would not mind either way if Blizz brought them back. My first alliance character ever was a Night Elf hunter on Suramar.

[corebit]

I would like monster resistances and weaknesses back. It's just weird and non-immersive that throwing fireballs at a fire elemental is the same as throwing frostbolts, or any other bolt to it. A fire elemental should be resistant to fire and weak to frost.

Other examples: undead should be weak to holy damage and shadow damage heals them. Arcane weak to nature/poison and viceversa.

I would also like more differentiation between the weapon types. For example:

Maces, Shields, Bows: bludgeoning damage, deals extra damage to constructs/bony undead
Axes, Swords: Slashing damage, higher critical chance.
Daggers, Polearms, Throwing Knifes: Piercing damage, deals extra bleed.

[Frolk]

We should change buffs like Arcane int, mark of the wild to be buffed on 1 and 1 target/group and to cost a reagentm that made the game fun and paladin buffs to last 5min

[Labz]

I miss some of the things listed but in all honesty it just sounds like OP is being a little too nostalgic and wishes he could play in Vanilla again.

[valliant13]

Yep, improved it so much half the people playing it left.

You realize the game has been out for nine years right? A lot of people I know who quit had been playing since launch when they quit in cata or mop. I don't blame them either. No mmo can maintain 12 million customers for 10 years. Iirc wow's sub numbers right now are more than all the pay to play mmos sub numbers combined. That is including all the ones that had to go F2P to avoid being shut down.

I am close to quitting myself. Not because the game is bad(although that was the reason at the end of cataclysm) but simply because I have been playing wow for 10 years(original beta player). The time played has more to do than the quality of life improvements made. There were a couple points the OP brought up I would like back, the rest no thanks.

[-Superman-]

I miss some of the things listed but in all honesty it just sounds like OP is being a little too nostalgic and wishes he could play in Vanilla again.

The OP is nostalgic, but reading the last line in the OP would clear things up

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So your sitting here admitting your a troll, no suprises there.

Regardless this thread has turned on you spectacularly. Some if not most of the things you linked are contributing to the loss of immersion this game once had.

Of course it turned, half the people who flew off the handle failed to read the entire OP. Had they read, and understood, everything in the OP, they would see some light-hearted humor mixed with nostalgia.

[Kidoeng7]

So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.
2. Ammunition will make its return.
4. Weapon and unarmed skills will need to be raised separately once more.
5. Hunter and Active Pet will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.
6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.
7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.
8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented
10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
13. Guild perks will be removed
14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.
15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.
16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
18. Druids will be reduced to 3 specs which will once again combine Guardian and Feral into the original Cat/Bear combo.
19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.
20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.
21. Pet trainers will be included in the as before mentioned.
22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.
23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class
24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.

Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

*Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.

Thats the list that i can agree with

[Anon56]

They removed the first boss of SoO ??? When ??

[Whiskra]

Read the entire list, agree with 85% of it, read last sentence and realise it's all a sarcastic joke...

Fucking hell I hate this forum sometimes.

[-Superman-]

Read the entire list, agree with 85% of it, read last sentence and realise it's all a sarcastic joke...

Fucking hell I hate this forum sometimes.

Was not sarcastic, it was just humorous. As I said in other posts here, I came from TBC and would gladly welcome those items back. I was mostly poking fun at nostalgics while being nostalgic myself

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And had the great Superman grasped some basic social skills he would know that trying to invalidate peoples opinions by listing some old mechanics and screaming nostalgia, doesnt go down well.

Your still admitting your thread was a waste of time and an attempt to get a rise out of people, and judging from your started threads history I can see that your another reason why MMOC needs a decent ignore button.

Here's a thought: Open thread, see it is me, close thread. No one asked you to post. Now, as I have stated over and over in this thread, the OP was made with humorous intent, but coming from TBC I would still gladly welcome these items back. I don't really care either way. Just having some personal fun with my own nostalgia. If people took it personally, rather than humorously, that is there own fault. Stay on topic or remove yourself from the thread. Derails are not permitted on MMOC.

[draykorinee]

I'm glad its a joke, because I wouldn't want 90% of that stuff back.

[Raeln]

So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.

I would be fine with this if special effect arrows were available. While "equipping" the special effect arrows, all shots gained that special effect. (Think burning effects, lightning effects, splash damage from explosive arrows, etc).

2. Ammunition will make its return.

I'll agree to ammunition returning when other classes get a fatigue mechanic. While it seems a bit silly for a hunter to have unlimited ammo - it is more ludicrous for a warrior to never get tired while slinging his 50lb 2hander. Melee suffer no fatigue. DPS casters do not either.

3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.

No. The dead-zone had always been an arbitrary mechanic put in in the name of some supposed level of balance.

How about we implement a dead-zone for other classes? Mages can't cast any harmful spell if they are less than 10 yards from their target - my, how fun that sounds! We have no lore reason why they can't scorch their target 10 yards away - kind of the same way a crossbow or gun stops firing on things closer than 10 yards.

4. Weapon and unarmed skills will need to be raised separately once more.

Skills were never really an issue and were just a time sink. If anything, they pointed out issues with Blizzard's itemization since some classes would go for months at a time without finding the specific weapon they wanted. Since there were no casting skills (they were disabled long ago) - this only effected melee/hunters anyway.

5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.

As if owning 400 Battle Pets and being able to summon any one of of them in milliseconds without visiting some sort of a stable isn't strange enough already.

I mean really... 400+? but the immersion breaker is that we don't have to feed them...

As a hunter, I do think our pets should require some small maintenance - but feeding should provide some sort of buff and should be accomplished with a "Forage" ability when in the pet's native habitat.

Just keep in mind that to be balanced, other classes need to be given their own maintenance mechanics. If hunters have to feed their pets to maintain them then melee need to regularly sharpen their weapons and casters likely need to meditate.

This immersion stuff does both ways.

6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.

For gameplay, this sucked - especially for alts.

For immersion: when attunements exist - my experience is that devs seem to have problems restraining from using them for every door in the game. Yet, very few devs have understood that the burly warrior could just simply attack the same door until it falls from the hinges. Engineers should be able to just remove the hinges. Mages could attempt to nullify the magic binding the door.

Those are immersive ways of overcoming "attunements". Unfortunately, WoW and most MMORPGs take the lazy way out and just require the player to complete a binary quest that awards them a key, whether it's physically in their inventory or hidden in the character file.

7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.

Why would mages need simple wood and a flint & tender to make a cooking fire?

If cooking/campfires had more of a use, I'd agree to this but for a +4 short-duration spirit buff? Uh, no.

8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented

If you mean totems for shaman too, then absolutely no. I wouldn't mind if light feathers were removed from the game and the dev that thought of it fired and banned from developing video games for life.

Spell reagents for ultra-powerful, high cost spells are okay. Spell reagents for convenience spells like Levitate/Slow fall/Waterwalking? Don't be stupid. Carrying light feathers and fish scales provided immersion for no one. Most of the time it just meant they swam instead of getting to use their class ability.

9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion

Flight should not be outright removed but reworked. Weather and wind should be made a thing to deal with. Flying mounts should have a energy resource where they cannot just be used indefinitely without "getting tired" or "running out of fuel". Flying should also be slowed down a bit (possibly due to weather/wind effects).

Flying should be redesigned where it is always not the clear winner between flying and ground mounts. As it is now, 99% of the time - flying mounts are the best choice.

11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.

In other words - "certain quests will be made elite - signifying that players should skip them while leveling and come back at max level to complete them, especially after the first boat of leveling players have finished leveling."

12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning

Only if the theme of the dungeon provides/requires a lore-based reason for such patrols.

13. Guild perks will be removed
14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.

You can't really "fail" at picking herbs, skinning or picking up rocks. At most, you damage the quality of the materials which is represented by only looting 1 item. Looting 3+ can be construed as "doing a great job".

15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.

Emphatic no. To go further, we need more reasons to actually visit somewhere beside Orgrimmar/Stormwind.

16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.

No. It made playing them suck,... bad. If this returns, then other classes need similar mechanics. Deathknights could be made to slaughter mobs to fill their runic power. Warriors need to slaughter piles of mobs between raid wipes, else their rage generates at a very slow rate. Use your imagination on how to break every class to be a pile of suck like shard farming used to be for locks.

17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.

I'd love to see mountains of class and racial based quest lines. I'd like to see those types of quests far more than just a mountain of story-lite quests that really only impact the local area of the zone that I'm currently in.

19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.

Only if every class has to complete some trivial quest before they can use each weapon or spell. In other words, no.

20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.

I fail to see why visiting the trainer would be required when my character levels to make my spells more powerful. That is really the result of my character becoming more powerful after leveling.

Actually - if the trainer gives me a lesson that makes my spells more powerful, why can't I just hand the trainer even more gold to give me that new spell rank before I level. Not being able to do this breaks my immersion because we all know that money talks and I gots plenty of money (in game).

22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.

Only if tanking is removed and healing is built into the remaining trees automatically. Tanking is an immersion breaking class. Why would "a tank" ever be able to shout obscenities at a big beast (as if they could understand language anyway) and make the beast completely forget about that super critical fireball that just went up its butt?

MMORPG tanking has never "made sense" - yet here we are, in an immersion thread.

23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class

Haha, why don't we just go back to riding in horse and buggies too?

24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.

See my ammunition reply.

25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.

I don't really have a problem with this; however, Blizzard is not willing to make the balance changes necessary to make this work.

Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

*Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.

=)

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Was not sarcastic, it was just humorous. As I said in other posts here, I came from TBC and would gladly welcome those items back. I was mostly poking fun at nostalgics while being nostalgic myself

It's easy to say you would want those things back until it is actually back and you have to deal with it again.

To put things in perspective - if WoW was "just like it was back in TBC", Ordos would only be killed by the top guild on each server (most servers anyway) - with some smaller servers not able to field enough players with cloaks to kill him one time per week.

While not everything that has changed in WoW has been for the better - TBC had a lot of problems, chiefly: content access. Blizzard realized that people will not continue to pay for content that they will not see at all during that expansion cycle, thus: we have LFR. Without LFR and other mechanisms, WoW would have lost a great deal of their revenue as people eventually seen that the carrot was placed too far down the stick to continue to entice them to keep playing and buying the next expansion.

Here's a thought: Open thread, see it is me, close thread. No one asked you to post. Now, as I have stated over and over in this thread, the OP was made with humorous intent, but coming from TBC I would still gladly welcome these items back. I don't really care either way. Just having some personal fun with my own nostalgia. If people took it personally, rather than humorously, that is there own fault. Stay on topic or remove yourself from the thread. Derails are not permitted on MMOC.

Some advice: don't wait until the TLDR line make a vague reference to humor. If you didn't want to upset folks - you need to make sure they know your "list" is for laughs within the first two lines of the post, not after a wall of a text.

[-Superman-]

Some advice: don't wait until the TLDR line make a vague reference to humor. If you didn't want to upset folks - you need to make sure they know your "list" is for laughs within the first two lines of the post, not after a wall of a text.

It is not my responsibility to cater to every type of reader. I post my threads the way I read threads. From start to finish. Putting a TL;DR at the start of the post means you are pandering to people who are too lazy to read it and comprehend it. Not exactly the type of person I want to pander to. I post for me, and I like what I post. If others have a hard time following that, it is their's to deal with. The person I was responding to has issue with me personally, and I was asking for some courtesy to keep the thread on track.

[Thage]

I don't really have a problem with this; however, Blizzard is not willing to make the balance changes necessary to make this work.

There's also the problem of those players playing blood elf or tauren paladins or dwarf or draenei (or Alliance Pandaren) shaman having their characters forcibly taken away or faction-changed and unplayable in their current state until they're changed. Even graphic changes like when they lowered the poly count on female human faces in TBC caused a huge backlash on the forums, Blizzard wouldn't risk the massive PR fallout coming from forcibly changing peoples' characters' factions or removing the character outright.

[Raeln]

It is not my responsibility to cater to every type of reader. I post my threads the way I read threads. From start to finish. Putting a TL;DR at the start of the post means you are pandering to people who are too lazy to read it and comprehend it. Not exactly the type of person I want to pander to. I post for me, and I like what I post. If others have a hard time following that, it is their's to deal with. The person I was responding to has issue with me personally, and I was asking for some courtesy to keep the thread on track.

I didn't say to put a TLDR at the top of your post.

I said to make sure you tell people that you are tickling their funnybones within the first two lines of your post - not at the end of a wall of text after they have already invested 5 minutes reading your post and building emotion.

[Deleted]

No god please no... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Raeln]

There's also the problem of those players playing blood elf or tauren paladins or dwarf or draenei (or Alliance Pandaren) shaman having their characters forcibly taken away or faction-changed and unplayable in their current state until they're changed. Even graphic changes like when they lowered the poly count on female human faces in TBC caused a huge backlash on the forums, Blizzard wouldn't risk the massive PR fallout coming from forcibly changing peoples' characters' factions or removing the character outright.

We both know that paladins and shaman are never going away from the other faction. My point was that they were never designed correctly from the start. The paladin and shaman are not anti-classes of each other and their abilities did not mirror each other at all.

What would have made sense back in Vanilla was to put paladins on Alliance and deathknights on Horde - their abilities could have been mirrored and they would have been balanced. One class spells were light based, the other death based.

Shamans should have been the Horde's version of priests, obviously - that would mean that only Alliance would have priests. They could have mirrored each other in ability with priests using Holy magic to heal and Shaman using Nature magic to heal.

My point was that Paladins and Shaman are not comparable and they were not initially designed to have comparable abilities. Eventually, some patches made them more alike but not enough to compensate for their individual buffs.

You are right now though, it would upset players to have their choice taken away from them - sort of how I knew the Wrath story about the Forsaken was going to be meaningless - Blizzard was not going to do some awesome cool story thing and actually purge the Forsaken from the Horde (which they have no right to be a member of in my opinion btw).

[-Superman-]

I didn't say to put a TLDR at the top of your post.

I said to make sure you tell people that you are tickling their funnybones within the first two lines of your post - not at the end of a wall of text after they have already invested 5 minutes reading your post and building emotion.

Really, cause I read:

If you didn't want to upset folks - you need to make sure they know your "list" is for laughs within the first two lines of the post, not after a wall of a text.

This is essentially making a TL;DR. Why would I put the cart before the horse, or the punchline before the farce? That is not good humor.

ON TOPIC: I would not mind at all if these items were returned to WoW. As someone who played in TBC, I actually enjoyed it then, and would do it again. Though, for all practical purposes, the game has improved and removed smaller elements which were more troublesome.

[Xanderz]

Really, cause I read:


This is essentially making a TL;DR. Why would I put the cart before the horse, or the punchline before the farce? That is not good humor.

ON TOPIC: I would not mind at all if these items were returned to WoW. As someone who played in TBC, I actually enjoyed it then, and would do it again. Though, for all practical purposes, the game has improved and removed smaller elements which were more troublesome.

Holy crap i can't believe this thread is still going. This is great!

I loved the mechanics of this post. This just shows that people can get so upset over something as small as their own mistake to not read the whole post before aimlessly shooting down the poster. Well done, Superman. Well done.