Runic Corruption - Y U SUCK?

[Skygoneblue]

I'm dusting off my DK after having not played him since DS. I'm doing what every self-respecting WoW player should do and researching best play strategies, gearing, talents, etc.

I was honestly surprised to see several sources, including Icy Veins, say that Runic Corruption is a very bad talent for Frost. What I can't understand is: Why?

You don't have to micromanage unholy runes to ensure you only proc deaths or frosts. You don't have to press anything, you literally can't screw up using it. It's a flat increase in valuable resources, all of which you use as Frost.

I get that "mathematically" the other two options can work themselves out to be worth more runes over time, but that assumes perfect play. Is that really the only reason everyone says RC is bad? Or is there something else about it that I'm missing?

[Chrispotter]

You will find most Theory crafting is (for obvious reasons) done under the assumption that your playing your class correctly and will not take human error into account.

[Temp name]

I use it. I used it on Heroic Lei Shen progression. Was it the best choice? Maybe not in a theoretic setting, but there was a lot of things distracting me from doing a perfect rotation, and more keeping me away from the boss. I prefer RC just because it means you can focus on everything BUT your rotation.

I could maybe squeeze 1-2k dps more out if I went with BT, but yeah, not really interested.

[Skarssen]

RC is not significantly worse than RE or BT for 2h frost. It does math out slightly weaker than the other two options, but the key is SLIGHTLY. I don't remember the actual numbers but the difference is ~1%. If you prefer RC for 2h, blood or unholy then by all means use it.

DW frost is the only spec where RC puts you at a disadvantage.

[Schizoide]

You will find most Theory crafting is (for obvious reasons) done under the assumption that your playing your class correctly and will not take human error into account.

They do, but that's not necessarily a concern. You can macro Blood Tap into Frost Strike and beat RC, so execution is not a problem at all. RE is another option too, but you do need to hold a single unholy rune for top performance there (as DW). That's not difficult to do but it is something.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't really matter which one you pick, as we're talking very small variance here. The only real wrong decision is if you choose Blood Tap, don't macro it, forget to use it, and cap your stacks.

[DemoBytom]

From personal testing - and I'm a Runic Corruption lover - Empowerment does work better for frost (at least DW frost).
For DW frost you want quick frost runes (or death) for howling blasts - and you don't care about unholy ones at all (only to put 2nd disease). Remember that things like Pillar of Frost does use your frost rune as well. Now during the fight the instant refreshed frost runes are far better than waiting till they regenerate via Corruption. Frost already suffers from downtime, extending the time between runes only makes it worse.
Personally I found that Runic Corruption makes the rotation just more clunky. I went back to Empowerment and found that you have more opportunities to actually click your howling blasts and the whole rotation becomes more fluid.
Corruption is good when you constantly need paired runes to regenerate (Blood for Death Strikes, Unholy for whatever Unholy uses (I don't play that spec)).
Empowerment is better when you constantly need only 1 rune, since that's what this option generate.
Of course - that's just my personal preference, and my personal testings on fights, raids and dummies.

I have no idea about the 3rd option, I really don't like the design and micromanagement for Blood Tap.

[rhapso]

Play what you are comfortable with, the difference is usually way lower than human error and/or not being attentive to your encounter environment: Knowing the other talent is better mathematically does not have to be true in practice for YOU and YOUR comfort zone ;-)

Also, for 1h Frost I feel BT (macro'd and not) and RE feel smoother, because you are spamming a 1-rune spell instead of a 2-rune spell (OB for 2h Frost)

[Schizoide]

Play what you are comfortable with, the difference is usually way lower than human error and/or not being attentive to your encounter environment: Knowing the other talent is better mathematically does not have to be true in practice for YOU and YOUR comfort zone ;-)

This is completely true. Like I said above, it really doesn't matter which one you pick.

This is why I strongly feel the L75 talent tier is a failure. It generates a ton of discussion, and lots of people don't understand how it works due to being fairly mathy, but none of it has any real impact on performance or gameplay. Most DKs flat-out prefer RC for consistency and gameplay; I know I do.

Ideally for 6.0, RC would be the baseline, RE removed from the game, and Blood Tap buffed and put in a tier with two other competing talents that offer meaningful changes to gameplay and performance.

[Skygoneblue]

Thanks for the responses guys. I suspected that RC was at least competitive, I guess that what I read may have exaggerated a bit.

I appreciate posters that embrace reality and don't just mindlessly follow sim numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the responses guys. I suspected that RC was at least competitive, I guess that what I read may have exaggerated a bit.

I appreciate posters that embrace reality and don't just mindlessly follow sim numbers.

[shadowboy]

I use it. I used it on Heroic Lei Shen progression. Was it the best choice? Maybe not in a theoretic setting, but there was a lot of things distracting me from doing a perfect rotation, and more keeping me away from the boss. I prefer RC just because it means you can focus on everything BUT your rotation.

I could maybe squeeze 1-2k dps more out if I went with BT, but yeah, not really interested.

In ToT runic corruption actually WAS a dps increase because of a real ppm bug (RC was inflating RPPM proc chances).

That said I play with blood tap on my 2h frost dk (in large part because blood tap allows me more control over how I use my killing machine procs).

[Skarssen]

Ideally for 6.0, RC would be the baseline, RE removed from the game, and Blood Tap buffed and put in a tier with two other competing talents that offer meaningful changes to gameplay and performance.

While I now prefer BT to both RE and RC for all specs, I would be okay with them making RC baseline and giving us back the old blood tap on a ~20second CD. The level 75 tier really is a massive failure.

[Raugnaut]

DW frost tends to almost forget about unholy runes. Due to heavy mastery stacking, and low weapon damage for Obliterate, Obliterate does less damage then FS+Unholy Rune Usage. Thus, RC, which equally returns 1/3rd of a rune is worse then RE, which fully returns a depleted rune (Which will either be a death or frost rune if played right), and RC, which fully returns a depleted rune as a death rune (Which can be more reliable then RE, but will return less overall runes then RE). For 2h frost, its significantly better because Obliterate has a much higher DPR then Howling Blast+Unholy Rune, thus making the rotation full of Obliterates.

So, anyway, due to Unholy Runes having signficantly less damage value then frost/death runes for DW frost, RC falls behind as it restores 1/3 of all 3 runes, whereas RE restores 1 complete rune, which will be a favorable rune for DW frost.

[Trubo]

I've used RC this entire expansion as I don't want to get two decent 1h weapons to play DW Frost.

[Darkfriend]

DW frost tends to almost forget about unholy runes. Due to heavy mastery stacking, and low weapon damage for Obliterate, Obliterate does less damage then FS+Unholy Rune Usage. Thus, RC, which equally returns 1/3rd of a rune is worse then RE, which fully returns a depleted rune (Which will either be a death or frost rune if played right), and RC, which fully returns a depleted rune as a death rune (Which can be more reliable then RE, but will return less overall runes then RE). For 2h frost, its significantly better because Obliterate has a much higher DPR then Howling Blast+Unholy Rune, thus making the rotation full of Obliterates.

So, anyway, due to Unholy Runes having signficantly less damage value then frost/death runes for DW frost, RC falls behind as it restores 1/3 of all 3 runes, whereas RE restores 1 complete rune, which will be a favorable rune for DW frost.

I still sim higher w/ OB/SR in rotation compared to mastersimple. That being said, Mastersimple is more forgiving, so I might just go back to that.

[apepi]

I use Runic Corruption in pvp, Blood Tap takes too much management and gcds for me.

[Darkfriend]

I use Runic Corruption in pvp, Blood Tap takes too much management and gcds for me.

BT is off the GCD.

[Kraeth]

BT is off the GCD.

I remember back when it was on GCD during beta.... Oh man, the horror!

[apepi]

BT is off the GCD.

It is? Huh. I might have to re think about using it. Though I am too lazy to make room for my keybinds...Maybe a macro...

[Soisoisoi]

I use Runic Corruption in pvp, Blood Tap takes too much management and gcds for me.

Doesn't use the GCD.


e: I should refresh pages before I post eh...

It is? Huh. I might have to re think about using it. Though I am too lazy to make room for my keybinds...Maybe a macro...

Just, no. Stay with RC if you're gonna do that. You lose the only benefit (on demand runes) if you macro.

[Barael]

Heh, I do 2h Frost with Blood Tap (manual, of course) and Plague Leech on top. I find RC boring as crap and (gaming) RE just annoying and ultimately more work than BT (once you play with BT long enough, it becomes fairly automatic especially with a good bind).