Applying to a new guild

[MerinPally]

lol i changed the topic that's coming form the person who quotes ppl out of context and then changes the subject themselves

We've already established I didn't take it out of context. Where have I changed the subject? We're discussing guild applications and their relevance. I said they're important and that through years of experience I can tell a good player from a bad player on an application.

Your rebuttle was "how will this help you in life? Do you have a diploma in human resources?"

My reply s as follows - it will help me in life, very minorly. Will it get me a job? No. Do I have a diploma in human resources? Of course not, I can read and write, I would do something remotely useful with my time. And I am, I'm currently at university studying Chemistry. But my true passion in life has always been to drop out and fail an NVQ in Management Studies.... That'll get me far in life!

[Raziella]

If taking 5 minutes to write some bullcrap about where you're from and what your previous WoW experience is, is too much work for you then I have a hard time believing you're able to put aside time before raids to prepare, read up on tactics, learn your class to a decent enough level - let alone set aside 9 hours a week to raid with us, and perform during this time.

And if asking you to do all that is too much, then raiding guilds, my friend, are not for you.

It's NOT just writing ONE bullcrap application, and going through one embarrassing vent interview though... It's going through like 10 of them (unless maybe you're a tank,) or more.
For jobs, I can do little edits to my resume, and that's good enough. For WoW, I have to re-write my life history, tell a funny joke, and talk about the first place I had sex, for some reason. Over and over and over.

This is pretty much why I quit raiding after my last guild broke up.
If I was looking for a hardcore heroic guild, I could understand this. When I'm looking for a spot on a normal mode guild with a more casual schedule?
The OP is right; I found myself having to spend more time making apps for dozens of guilds than I did to find a job, and I couldn't justify that anymore.
(The job actually PAYS me, which pays my bills, ffs...)

And for the "experienced" app analyzers: why, if this is such a good judge of how someone is going to perform, do I join these HC guilds full of failures and complete d-bags, anyways?
You would think they would get weeded out, but it's always been the same old guild drama bullshit time after time.

[durrtygoodz]

How come after 10 years of wow, people still have to fill in stiff boring applications that take way too long to fill in. Seriously I've put more time into applying to the last guild I joined than I had to put time into creating my CV which got me my job (accountant), does this fail to make sense to some of you?

What do you learn about someone's raiding capabilities by reading a fuckload of random shit? half the shit I write are blatant lies or stuff I copypasted from theorycrafting sites.

Why not fe. just invite them to an alt-flex guild-run and talk a bit on ts/vt during the raid? that will tell you fuckloads more about the person and show his/her raiding capabilities.

Yes, I realize I could "just" make my own raiding guild out of thin air using this method, but I'm kinda cba to be a GL/RL.

Oh yeah, anyone looking for a ranged dps? ^^

EDIT: I'm also not talking about just the elite guilds, I'm talking about your average 9/14 HC raiding guilds at this point.

How do you honestly expect a guild to trial every single person that wants to join them? And additionally, why should they? The application isn't the test, it's to see whether they WANT to test you or not.

You're right, TS chat is a nice way to apply. But again, don't you think 90% of officers have better shit to be doing than talking to every single guy on ts that ever wants to join? As a guy who's been an officer for a short while myself and was basically in charge of recruitment, it ain't easy mate.

[Bigitybones]

We've already established I didn't take it out of context. Where have I changed the subject? We're discussing guild applications and their relevance. I said they're important and that through years of experience I can tell a good player from a bad player on an application.

Your rebuttle was "how will this help you in life? Do you have a diploma in human resources?"

My reply s as follows - it will help me in life, very minorly. Will it get me a job? No. Do I have a diploma in human resources? Of course not, I can read and write, I would do something remotely useful with my time. And I am, I'm currently at university studying Chemistry. But my true passion in life has always been to drop out and fail an NVQ in Management Studies.... That'll get me far in life!

lol no we did not establish anything dont put words in other ppl's mouth it makes you seem arrogant but you dont seem to have issues with that your "experience" is worthless is the point you do not have the skills or abilities to judge a person's worth you know why you don't? because as i said you do not have a diploma in human resource therefore you do not have the skills to efficiently judge a persons worth from an application... shit you dont even have the skill to build an application that will do half of what ppl pretends apps do here.


but hey keep on being arrogant and putting words in ppls mouth and taking things out of context on that i have wasted enough of my time on this . enjoy the view from the ivory tower

[cFortyfive]

You're right, TS chat is a nice way to apply. But again, don't you think 90% of officers have better shit to be doing than talking to every single guy on ts that ever wants to join? As a guy who's been an officer for a short while myself and was basically in charge of recruitment, it ain't easy mate.

Absolutely. Same goes for test runs. Absurd waste of time.
Not sure what's so bad about asking a couple questions.

[Bigitybones]

Absolutely. Same goes for test runs. Absurd waste of time.
Not sure what's so bad about asking a couple questions.

because it will take the same time to ask said question in game or over a voice chat than it will reading an app

[The Madgod]

because it will take the same time to ask said question in game or over a voice chat than it will reading an app

I come from a pretty strong guild who's gotten a lot of applications.

I also have a social life outside of WoW, school, work, and moderation on this forum. It's not feasible to be able to do live voice chat for every applicant. Having a written application means that everything can be done at everyone else's convenience. You don't have to schedule out time to do live chat.

[Deleted]

lol no we did not establish anything dont put words in other ppl's mouth it makes you seem arrogant but you dont seem to have issues with that your "experience" is worthless is the point you do not have the skills or abilities to judge a person's worth you know why you don't? because as i said you do not have a diploma in human resource therefore you do not have the skills to efficiently judge a persons worth dfrom an application... shit you dont even have the skill to build an pplication that will do half of what ppl pretends apps do here.

Anyone who helped design, or understands the use for, an application form that was created to assess the usefulness of an applicant to a guild can use the answers provided to judge an applicants ability to complete the application form. If the application form has relevant questions then the answers provided can very easily be used to judge the applicant's worth to the guild. No one needs to be a human resources graduate to assess what their guild needs.

[Bigitybones]

I come from a pretty strong guild who's gotten a lot of applications.

I also have a social life outside of WoW, school, work, and moderation on this forum. It's not feasible to be able to do live voice chat for every applicant.

really? and yet you have time to read apps? which takes the exact same amount of time ... odd

[MerinPally]

lol no we did not establish anything dont put words in other ppl's mouth it makes you seem arrogant but you dont seem to have issues with that your "experience" is worthless is the point you do not have the skills or abilities to judge a person's worth you know why you don't? because as i said you do not have a diploma in human resource therefore you do not have the skills to efficiently judge a persons worth from an application... shit you dont even have the skill to build an application that will do half of what ppl pretends apps do here.


but hey keep on being arrogant and putting words in ppls mouth and taking things out of context on that i have wasted enough of my time on this . enjoy the view from the ivory tower

Sounds like you have a qualification in human resource management. Is this thread really the first time someone has broken it to you that you completely wasted every last second of the time you invested into that? I'm sorry you had to find out this way, you may as well have spent your time voluntarily shoveling horse shit at the local stables.

Your argument that you require a qualification in something to know something is pure rubbish. I don't have a qualification in swimming, reading, running, learning, teaching or detecting bullshit But I can do all of them really quite well.

[Sephius]

I come from a pretty strong guild who's gotten a lot of applications.

I also have a social life outside of WoW, school, work, and moderation on this forum. It's not feasible to be able to do live voice chat for every applicant.

I think the problem is that the guy can only think about himself, therefor he does not have the ability to comprehend that more than JUST him is apping to the guild.

[Bigitybones]

Anyone who helped design, or understands the use for, an application form that was created to assess the usefulness of an applicant to a guild can use the answers provided to judge an applicants ability to complete the application form. If the application form has relevant questions then the answers provided can very easily be used to judge the applicant's worth to the guild. No one needs to be a human resources graduate to assess what their guild needs.

was the app written by a professional? once again you have no claim that any of what you say is true.. unless your app was designed by some professionals ( read ppl with diplomas ) your doing guesswork at best

[Deleted]

really? and yet you have time to read apps? which takes the exact same amount of time ... odd

He's going all out.

[Deleted]

It's NOT just writing ONE bullcrap application, and going through one embarrassing vent interview though... It's going through like 10 of them (unless maybe you're a tank,) or more.
For jobs, I can do little edits to my resume, and that's good enough. For WoW, I have to re-write my life history, tell a funny joke, and talk about the first place I had sex, for some reason. Over and over and over.

This is pretty much why I quit raiding after my last guild broke up.
If I was looking for a hardcore heroic guild, I could understand this. When I'm looking for a spot on a normal mode guild with a more casual schedule?
The OP is right; I found myself having to spend more time making apps for dozens of guilds than I did to find a job, and I couldn't justify that anymore.
(The job actually PAYS me, which pays my bills, ffs...)

And for the "experienced" app analyzers: why, if this is such a good judge of how someone is going to perform, do I join these HC guilds full of failures and complete d-bags, anyways?
You would think they would get weeded out, but it's always been the same old guild drama bullshit time after time.

Why do you make so many applications? Because either you are very bad at applications or you are applying above your weight.

Why do you join guilds full of failures and d-bags? Because you are bad at researching the guild you're applying to.

Either those things, or you're exaggerating.

[PuppetShowJustice]

really? and yet you have time to read apps? which takes the exact same amount of time ... odd

You honestly can't understand how it would be easier for a busy person to read applications on their own terms than it would to organize a meeting between two parties at a pre-established time to have a conversation? I refuse to believe you're actually this dense and you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

[Deleted]

was the app written by a professional? once again you have no claim that any of what you say is true.. unless your app was designed by some professionals ( read ppl with diplomas ) your doing guesswork at best

The application form is made by the people running the guild. The people running the guild know what they want from an applicant. Why do you assume they are guessing at what they need from an applicant?

[Bigitybones]

You honestly can't understand how it would be easier for a busy person to read applications on their own terms than it would to organize a meeting between two parties at a pre-established time to have a conversation? I refuse to believe you're actually this dense and you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

yes its really hard to setup an interview like say jobs do cause thats what you ppl are amounting this to a job i mean someone even made the direct comparison to a job

[MerinPally]

was the app written by a professional? once again you have no claim that any of what you say is true.. unless your app was designed by some professionals ( read ppl with diplomas ) your doing guesswork at best

I thought you were done with posting in this thread, considering it's all the same argument. This is such rubbish I'm sitting here laughing, we now need a professional "human resource manager" (Whatever the fuck that is) to design a simple questionnaire and then to interpret it, to find out if someone thinks like we do? If you can't interpret your own questions then what the hell were you thinking when you wrote it. If you don't get it, how is some random person going to manage?

[Deleted]

really? and yet you have time to read apps? which takes the exact same amount of time ... odd

And you skipped the rest of the text. It is about convenience for all.

[The Madgod]

really? and yet you have time to read apps? which takes the exact same amount of time ... odd

The difference is scheduling.

I can read apps while I'm eating lunch or if I'm hanging out with friends and we aren't actively doing something (it's not hard to read and carry a conversation).

I can even do it in sneaks in class, looking at a bit of it and then tabbing back to my notes to copy those down.

I can't have a live chat with someone over the internet while eating in a cafeteria (it's also rather rude to talk to someone in what is supposed to be a pseudo-professional way when you're eating), I can't do it when hanging with friends (again, pretty rude), and I certainly can't do it in class or at work.