Why Is A Free 90 A Bad Thing To Some?

[stabetha]

so if I have 6 90's I won? cool what do I win?

[Daltin]

Did an LFR wing 1 today. #2 DPS was doing 80k DPS. If only they had leveled from 1 through 90 to learn how to play their class.

There's nothing to "learn" about any classes. All DPS classes, for all intents and purposes, are identical to each other. Keep W buff up, Keep X debuff up, use Y ability on cooldown, use Z when there's nothing else to use. Use your CDs either on cooldown, or hold for special burn phases. People who suck from 1 to 90 are going to suck starting at 90. You either get it, or you don't.

Keep Slice and Dice up, keep Rupture up, use Envenom at 5CPs, use Mutilate to fill. Er, I mean..
Keep Tiger Palm up, keep RSK on CD, use BoK to spend, Jab to fill. Er, I mean...
Keep Inquisition up, keep Exorcism on CD, use TV to spend, CS/Judg to fill. Er, I mean...

Make sure you use Vendetta/Brew/Avenging Wrath in optimal areas. Er, I mean...

Make sure you use Feint/Brew/DP when you need personal accountability. Er, I mean...

Make sure you use Smoke Bomb/Zen/Devotion Aura when the raid needs something from you.. Er....

[Luxeley]

It's not "pay to win" but it MOST CERTAINLY is step in that direction. Plus, blizzard purposely creates a "flavor of the month" class. Why do they do this? The answer is simple, people want to be Godlike and they will expend the necessary time to re-roll. When (not if, because I am 100% certain Blizzard will do this) they implement a level 90 w/e for purchase, they will exploit the flavor of the month concept to a whole new level.

[Theendgamelv3]

It's not "pay to win" but it MOST CERTAINLY is step in that direction. Plus, blizzard purposely creates a "flavor of the month" class. Why do they do this? The answer is simple, people want to be Godlike and they will expend the necessary time to re-roll. When (not if, because I am 100% certain Blizzard will do this) they implement a level 90 w/e for purchase, they will exploit the flavor of the month concept to a whole new level.

Except that you know how to play that FTM class. Just because lets say for example Locks are the best class in PVE doesn't mean I pay for a lvl 90 lock and I can out dps everyone in sight because it is the best dps class. You have to know how to be effective in playing in order to bring out the best of the class. Even if they "exploit" the FTM class doesn't mean it is pay 2 win. Who would you take, a well experienced player who plays the worst class and spec or the guy who is playing the FTM class with little experience with said class?

[Pua]

I am guessing you don't see the irony in you calling it cynical right?

I can give you a 100% fact, some people love leveling, some do not.

You're missing the point, it's the "remove the nerfs to raids" argument all over again. Yes, you could take off the stacking nerfs if you're that hardcore, but then you're putting yourself behind guilds who you're directly competing against for both kills and (more importantly) recruits. In this example, if two chums decide to play a couple of alts for fun, and one wants an immediate 90, the other is "forced" to do the same whether he loves levelling or not. In a raiding guild, if the RL says he needs everyone to have an alt, then the player who might like levelling, or at least dislike paying, will feel "forced" to cough up in order to maintain his place in the roster.

Blizzard know, full well, that this goes on. Their constant baiting that nobody has to do anything is a smokescreen so that fanboys can come to this forum, and others, and argue their case for them.

I think the problem here is, we see the boost as two different things.

Ultimately, yes. I disagree with your post, but you already know why I view things differently; that doesn't make your opinion invalid at all, though, and I thank you for sharing it so eloquently.

[Vxt]

Leveling is not nearly as confusing as it used to be. Theorycrafting, Leveling Guides, Class Guides, Youtube, there are tons of sources of information at any person's fingertips. World of Warcraft isn't even remotely the only game to have these resources either. Hell, there was Strategy Guides printed and sold for Super Nintendo games. Taking a small amount of time to bookmark a few google links, and any player, new or old, now has a full set of knowledge resources to use.

There is now a 'Core Abilities' tab in the in-game spellbook. As well as a 'What Has Changed?' tab. There anyone playing the game can see a simplified list of priority spells and abilities. Add that with the tutorials built-in to the interface, players have more than enough information to have an understanding of the base structure of the game and class they are playing.

Using the DK's ruining stuff in TBC argument is entirely ignorant. Death Knights, at that time, and before Beta Test even had large player pools testing content(Annual Pass granted Blizzard a HUGE amount of feedback), were a BRAND NEW class. Hardly anyone knew ANYTHING about the class at that point. Hell, even dedicated theorycrafters were updating guides on a weekly basis for Monks when they hit. It was not the players who were causing the problems, it was the mystery and lack of knowledge by the ENTIRE community about the class that caused "negative" experiences. To say that it was the player's fault, is to contradict your statements of LEVELING being the most important tool in learning. You're basically saying, "Leveling teaches players how to play their class, but leveling a new class makes you a bad player."

Time spent, in no way shape or form, directly equals how good you are as a player or at your class. I started playing in Wrath of the Lich King, and by the end of the expansion I had cleared all of ICC25 Heroic. The very next expansion(and my first expansion playing it from the day it launched, to the day it ended), I was raiding in top world and top US ranked guilds. So if the "Time=Skill" argument is true, then why is there an entire player population that has been playing the game longer than me, be not as skilled at the game? I'll tell you why: Because there is no one solution and answer to what makes one good at something. Everyone learns at different paces and in different ways.

The argument that, "MMO'S ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GRINDY!" is false as well. MMO means 'Massively Multiplayer Online'. This means the game is a server-based, persistent game with support for a larger than normal population of players allowed to be active on the server at any given time. RPG, just like an MMO, has no rule that it must be grindy. RPG means 'Role Playing Game', meaning you take on the role of an avatar within a world, where your actions and decisions help progress the story and world. Neither of these systems have a 'MUST BE GRINDY' rule to them. Literally everything you would do from questing and dungeons from 1-90 can be revisted by a fresh 90. Story, zones, dungeons. They are all accessible.

And finally, the 'OMG PAY2WIN' argument. If you are a player who has been playing the game for any span of time larger than 'I Just Hit 1-90 this week!', if a player instantly making a fresh 90 with normal 5-man level gear or worse, is a THREAT(as some have worded it on these forums) to you, well, that's your problem. Especially if you are also adopting the 'Time=Skill' philosophy. The service is also not REQUIRED. You don't have to give Blizzard a single cent of your money for additional services. At any time with this service, players just get the choice: Level 1-100, or Level 90-100. It's a choice they have the freedom and ability to make on their own. Just like any other decision a player can make in this game.

[Eroginous]

Explain how a lvl90 character isn't winning at pretty much everything vs a lvl 1 character.

Leveling is an artificial gating process. The problem of which is that gating automatically makes the highest level content the best you can play, while everything else becomes arbitrary. World of Warcraft is an aging game where a significant portion of the game needs to be updated in order to remain relevant. However, it will never accomplish what games are supposed to accomplish because all of the importance is placed on end game content.

The only thing they could do to really fix Wow is to remove levels completely, making all content relevant, then redoing large amounts of it to be challenging and engaging with meaningful story and game play.

Giving people free 90s is the exact opposite of what they should do.

[Khalys]

We're going to have a Free2Play Cash Shop that is just selling characters now and yet it's still a subscription game.

Actually, scratch that. Even F2P MMOs such as TOR, Star Trek, TERA and Rift don't sell leveled up characters, at best they give a potion to speed it up, but don't let your credit card bypass the process entirely.

[Noctredors]

If we didn't pay $15 a month as it is, then it won't bother me.

[The Flavour Cat]

I don't think 1 free level 90 is bad, as long as it's only 1 free character. If there are hundreds of un-geared, unskilled level 90's running around with no idea on how use their class/run dungeons or raids, then it's a problem. And that looks like it could be a possible future thanks to some idiot thinking they should monetise the levelling process.

[melodramocracy]

Leveling is an artificial gating process.

Interesting opinion. I'd say that leveling is indeed content, though over the course of years it's been absolutely gutted by Blizzard in their repeated acquiescence to the playerbase this game unfortunately attracts. To be fair though, leveling has never really been constructed the way it should be in this title.

If anything is an 'artificial gating process', it's the sheer volume of repetition that's associated with end game. Mat collection, valor collection, etc etc. There's actually very little content at any time that's considered 'relevant' end game. Only the sheer required repetition of it (and at times the slow process of trying to defeat it) deludes players into thinking there's much in the way of variance.

[Grush]

I've experienced 'ebay' characters (when they used to be easy to get) - people could do the basic 3 or 4 things, but had no idea how to dispel, cc, shield or any of the other things you learn ONE at a time as you level up from 1.

You don't or very rarely use any of those while leveling, especially if you are just questing.

[Mezzolith]

We're going to have a Free2Play Cash Shop that is just selling characters now and yet it's still a subscription game.

Actually, scratch that. Even F2P MMOs such as TOR, Star Trek, TERA and Rift don't sell leveled up characters, at best they give a potion to speed it up, but don't let your credit card bypass the process entirely.

TOR, Star Trek, Tera and Rift don't have five expansions of content and leveling either. Nor have they been around nearly as long.

I enjoy leveling but I can certainly see the tedium of doing the same shit or wanting to play a new class with your friends only to be stopped by the need to level. People always preach that the game doesn't start until max level. And now suddenly leveling is the single most important thing ever. :\

It's just the same people as always: I had to do it the hard way, so they should too! It's a childish mentality.

[Bad Ashe]

people QQ so much about leveling a class, and when they do it really makes me think they're pathetic and lazy.

if its important enough to you that you want to play the class, then its important enough to put the little amount of time into leveling them. its where you learn how the class works, what does and doesnt work, how to act in combat with your class, and along the way reminds you what the game is really about. its not about being max level and doing the same dungeon or quest every day, its the WORLD of warcraft, not the MAX LEVEL of warcraft.

[RickJamesLich]

My main thing is, if people really hate leveling that bad, they probably don't realize a lot of the stuff you do on the way to 90 you will still do at 90. The only thing that changes really is arena and raiding, otherwise it's the same exact stuff.

[Deleted]

I have no problem with Pay2Lv90 when All I need is a Shaman and then I can level the rest myself ( I really HATE levelling Shamans ).

[darxide]

I think the summary of 14 pages of posts is this:

"I'm not an elitist, but..."

You children are too cute.


I've always been into the Warcraft lore and story ever since I first played Warcraft II nearly two decades ago. I've read a lot of the novels and without a doubt my favorite novel is Rise of the Horde and the other novels in that story arc are also right there along with it (The Last Guardian, Tides of Darkness, and Beyond the Dark Portal) so when WOD was announced I was instantly at attention. Here's the thing: I quit playing almost two years ago. For those with short attention spans, that was during Cataclysm. I quit because the game itself was getting boring. Having played since Vanilla, I got to see the dumbing down of end game content and the inclusion of endless daily quests and all that other stuff that people seem to have forgotten about by now, so it's not even worth mentioning anymore.

Anyhow, back on topic here, if I had to level a character through all of the Pandaland content just to reach the WOD stuff, I would dismiss it out of hand and be on my way. However, with an option for an instant level 90 character to jump right into the WOD content, that takes the chances that I would resub from exactly 0% up to a one-in-three chance. That's a pretty significant chance that Blizz is going to get my sub back after all this time. Hell, I've been saying since Wrath that Blizz should have a service whereby you could purchase a character who was leveled to halfway through that expansion (in Wrath it would have been a level 75 character) with some basic blue level/class/role appropriate gear and a basic assortment of necessary items and gold. And for the record, I DO consider myself an elitist and I feel that the way raiding was in TBC was more on point with only 0.01% of people seeing the full end-game content. I can already hear the whining and the crying for having said that. Your tears fuel my raging hard-on. My point is that allowing freebee level ups has little impact on anything. Those people suck when they get to max level? Oh well, don't let them in your guild. End of story. I played through most of this game's lifespan with 80+% of the population being under par leeches with little to no hope of even being considered average. A few more won't affect me.

[Vishtara]

I think it's fine. I have leveled countless toons to 90, but I just cant force myself to level a rogue for free lockpicking. I have also wanted to level an extra druid specifically for mining/herbalism that I won't actually play except for mat farming. My free 90 will be one of those, but I haven't yet decided on which. Going through the leveling process doesn't take skill, but rather some time, so I consider it a nice perk.

Learning your class is simple for the new person to wow, because there are countless discussion boards and sites like icy-veins, that help make it easy.

The free 90 to some people also makes leaving their server an easy choice, especially if they cant justify giving Blizzard money to transfer. Also, a 90 toon is not the same as a max level toon, so you would still have to do the grunt work to get the last 10 levels.

Another thing that people forget, is that if you quit WoW for an extended amount of time, your class abilities can change and you won't remember how to play your already leveled toon perfectly. It doesn't mean that they should have to start over because they don't remember how to execute their rotations perfectly. Perhaps someone left WoW when they were level 80 in Wrath, and would like to check it out with their friends. A free 90 is a pretty sweet incentive to jump right back into the game and try it out.

[Mytheros]

I don't get the argument against the level 90 boost ...like AT ALL. I've been playing the game for quite a while, it doesn't take a lot of effort to learn your abilities - so its funny to me how people against the 90 boost use the constant argument that "Well people that are instant 90 will not how to play their class"......first there's people since day one of Vanilla release to NOW that don't know how to play their class. Second, blizzard has said and WHY DO PEOPLE ALWAYS LEAVE THIS PART OUT...lol.... boosted characters will have a different system that will introduce all the "powers" / abilities of the class ... everyone making the argument against the level 90 boost treats it like this.....so you create a character its level 1......you decide to boost it....BAM! you instantly have all 40 abilities or whatever thrown right at you....that's not how its going to work (unless blizzard changes their mind from what they have so far stated).

Also use common sense people....most players will naturally experiment with their abilities when they are new to them, stop with acting like every player is going to be some brain dead drone...."ooh I just got boosted to 90...let me jump right into this pug group....hmm...wonder what those abilities on my action bar do...ahh...I'll figure it out later...".......now WILL there be some % of players like that , probably a small amount there is a pool of 8 million people playing the game there's going to be some like that. The overwhelmingly vast majority of players I'd suggest will NOT be like that though...the will seek to learn on their own.

Finally, someone boosting to 90 has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on *YOU*.....why ? A) Its not like they'll be showing up in any raid you are in anytime soon -- they won't meet the ilvls for them right off, B) How is it different if someone is a "bad" due to boosting to 90 or someone that played for 5 years is a "bad" still the same net result right? So then deal with "bads" how you deal with "bads" .....don't hang them out SOLELY because they level boosted, C) Finally based on forums (mainly the official forums) people have been nasty to each other for years hacking on one another so really -- how is the hacking people get for level boosting really going to feel that different?

...oh and there's this too "GET OVER YOURSELF".......Wow isn't a hard game to learn....its not a action based MMO its not based on REAL character reactions -- like dodging or actually aiming...you learn a rotation you just have to get good at reading boss strats, listening to raid calls and knowing your rotation like the back of your hand....that's about as hard as wow gets....stop trying to pat yourself on the back like 1 in 100,000 people in the world are skilled enough to win at raiding or something.

[Deleted]

people QQ so much about leveling a class, and when they do it really makes me think they're pathetic and lazy.

if its important enough to you that you want to play the class, then its important enough to put the little amount of time into leveling them. its where you learn how the class works, what does and doesnt work, how to act in combat with your class, and along the way reminds you what the game is really about. its not about being max level and doing the same dungeon or quest every day, its the WORLD of warcraft, not the MAX LEVEL of warcraft.

"little amount of time into levelling them" - if you don't have the time to play all day long like some people, levelling will take quite a long time, and yes the game is called WORLD of warcraft, but most of the things to do in the game is done at MAX LEVEL, making your last point a stupid one.