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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    Sometimes i feel like analogies are giant misdirections. Cata leveling was lackluster. The answer to that isn't eliminating leveling for cash.
    You have no idea whether or not that is the answer, fact is, the answer wasn't re-doing zones, so they are trying a different approach. You may not like that answer, but it could be the move that stabilizes their sub numbers, or at least slows the decline.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Infernix View Post
    I wonder if Blizzard would be okay with me selling level 90s on Ebay. I mean, I won't have end-game gear and whatnot, surely they'd be okay with that.
    It's against their Terms of Service but that doesn't stop people from doing it anyway.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Infernix View Post
    I wonder if Blizzard would be okay with me selling level 90s on Ebay. I mean, I won't have end-game gear and whatnot, surely they'd be okay with that.
    The difference is: you selling 90s means you are selling something you do not own (read the terms of service); Blizz selling 90s is them selling something they do own.
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  4. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babzu View Post
    All those years we made fun of the people saying. "If they sell server transfers whats stoping them from selling gear or max lvl characters? We thought such connection would never happen, since blizzard knows better.

    Then they removed the faction limit and sold faction changes.....ok not that big of a deal, a little bit of worry spread the forums, but most people learned to accept it.

    Now they are officially selling lvl 90 characters, even offering you a lvl 90 while the lvl 90 expansion is still out. This is officially, for me and my personal comfort level, too far. Wow has changes and so design physiology changes with it. It will continent you do so, iv spent much time in wow thinking that they made some mistakes and they will simply get back on track with the epic gameplay choices they made in the past.

    But I realize now, that im simply an outdated customer, and that few of these things are mistakes. They are simply shifts to a new style of game, one that does not catch my fancy. Im more of an oldschool RPG fan, wow back in TBC hit my personal favorite balance on the genre. Wow is still a good game to some, but its not the same game. Do I feel its fair? Not really. I wish they would open up oldschool servers to support the fans of wow past. But there are always other ways to do that.

    Blizzard seems under the impression that "less people are playing mmos in general" but I dont think that is a result of the consumer, as much as it is a result of the lack of a true mmo products. (This one could be opinion, but for me this is true, I still love mmos, I just dont know of any REAL mmos these days)
    I couldn't care less if they sold instant leveling to 90 as long as there were some stipulations.
    EverQuest, City of Heroes, Star Wars Galaxies, EverQuest II, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Star Wars TOR, Guild Wars 2, Rift.

  5. #665
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    They are going to where games such as SWTOR have already gone and are picking up speed. But what all of you and Blizzard conveniently forget is that WoW still has a monthly subscription. All these services we have to pay extra for, because people like you are willing to pay, should be free.
    So why can f2p games have a monthly subscription but a pay to play game can not have a cash shop? The flaw in your reasoning is that there is nothing wrong with a subscription service selling additional items at an extra cost. Many companies do it that range across all types of products. Blizzard certainly isn't the first and they won't be the last.

    Why should everything be free just because you pay a monthly fee?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    This isn't about giving everyone ONE free 90 with their purchase, this is about them going to SELL level 90s for MONEY. That's a big difference right there and that is going to have a huge impact on the game and the way people act. It directly benefits those more willing or able to invest huge loads of money.
    Just like the selling of increased experience potions impacted every ones game play? Funny how no one complains about that still. What if selling of level X is only for certain markets? What if they limit it to Asian realms? It also isn't an arduous grind to 90, even for a 100% new player. Leveling is pretty fast, and if it is an alt you can power level to 90 in a few days. Will some still by a level 90? Sure, people have disposable income.

    But leveling is by no means arduous. It sounds like you haven't leveled in a while.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flimsy View Post
    I wont be happy if they sell level 90 boosts, that's pay 2 win no matter how you look at it. I can see the logic of giving away 1 free 90 with WoD but selling them in the cash shop will be Blizzard taking the piss.
    But then you really don't have an issue with them selling level 90 boosts. You have an issue with the price point of the boost. If boosts are bad, they would be bad regardless of how they are given. No one complained much about people that got a Free Cataclysm license and a free level 80 just for returning to the game during that promotion.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So why can f2p games have a monthly subscription but a pay to play game can not have a cash shop? The flaw in your reasoning is that there is nothing wrong with a subscription service selling additional items at an extra cost. Many companies do it that range across all types of products. Blizzard certainly isn't the first and they won't be the last.

    Why should everything be free just because you pay a monthly fee?
    Because ever since I picked up my sub I was paying for a full access limited only by my skill - now it's going the other way round: you pay = you gain access no matter the skill. Eg. there where massive nerfs in ICC to allow players to see the content because prog. race ended and there was no lfr. - now there's lfr and they still decide to nerf bosses. And I'm for one pissed as hell bc I worked hard to get to them and now that i have a chance to do just that they get nerfed. Same deal here: I wanted a mount or a piece of gear I had to work on it to get it be it grind or progressing in skill and now i get to have something cool only if I pay them more money?

  7. #667
    The game should be generally difficult by default with easier pathways, not the other way around.

  8. #668
    Need more tanks and healers for lfr so buy more 90's please.

  9. #669
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitu View Post
    I wanted a mount or a piece of gear I had to work on it to get it be it grind or progressing in skill and now i get to have something cool only if I pay them more money?
    Getting to level 90 is cool? Remember that level 100 is the new max level once WoD comes out (and this boost is part of the pre-sale of WoD). It also doesn't take much skill to reach level 90, just time. Things get nerfed all the time, if you can't handle a few nerfs then you are playing the wrong type of game. You always got something cool for paying more money because Vanilla had CE pets and TCG loot. (And you didn't even pay Blizzard for TCG loot).
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Getting to level 90 is cool? Remember that level 100 is the new max level once WoD comes out (and this boost is part of the pre-sale of WoD). It also doesn't take much skill to reach level 90, just time. Things get nerfed all the time, if you can't handle a few nerfs then you are playing the wrong type of game. You always got something cool for paying more money because Vanilla had CE pets and TCG loot. (And you didn't even pay Blizzard for TCG loot).
    Here i was just pinning up the tmog gear, mounts and pets as for 90 boosts... well believe it or not but you do learn some of your class while lvling. Don't believe me? Think you can learn your spec just by playing it on max lvl/reading a tutorial? Look at all those dps->tank/healer rerollers on lfr...

  11. #671
    they are offering it in order to not shrink the leveling experience any further.
    the reasonning for this is simple. currently you're done with a zone after a few quests. in order to procceed at the maximum pace (that's the human brain. do what's most efficient even if it's the most boring way) you then have to move to the next zone before you even get what the quests are about. this kills the immersion for many and makes leveling even more boring than it could be.
    with the boost to 90 you CAN skip content you're bored of anyways and blizz can tune the xp-curve to the required state for the immersion at the same time.

    as i see it it's a win-win scenario for everyone besides ones account balance if one really intends to skip the actually fun content.

    and guess why they do sell all their "services" for 15-20 bucks?
    they want people to have an option to do what is offered in an easier way (remember when you had to level a totally new toon when you got bored of the race/gender? i do as i went through that process and have been pissed of farming all i had again!), but they set the price high enough to make people actually think about whether it's worth it to take the shortcut.

    if they were greedy they'd sell these services for such a low price like 5-7 bucks for everything, because at such a low price almost anyone would take that shortcut which in turn would total in more people buying these services (maybe even more often) and resulting in a higher profit.
    but guess what? they don't!
    Last edited by Flaim; 2014-01-19 at 04:21 PM.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by vitu View Post
    Here i was just pinning up the tmog gear, mounts and pets as for 90 boosts... well believe it or not but you do learn some of your class while lvling. Don't believe me? Think you can learn your spec just by playing it on max lvl/reading a tutorial? Look at all those dps->tank/healer rerollers on lfr...
    I look forward to seeing the WoD threads raging about how terrible everyone 90-100 in dungeons and out in the world leveling.

    Remember all those silly things that you see people doing while leveling up? Priests in melee combat, mages hard-casting Pyro, Pally tanks with a two-hander...That's what the WoD 90-100 experience is going to be like. All because Blizz is hemorrhaging subs and is desperate for cash and players are inherently lazy.
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  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    Careful with that line of thinking on these forums, sine most rational people will mock you for making gross exaggerations.
    Won the post

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by vitu View Post
    Here i was just pinning up the tmog gear, mounts and pets as for 90 boosts... well believe it or not but you do learn some of your class while lvling. Don't believe me? Think you can learn your spec just by playing it on max lvl/reading a tutorial? Look at all those dps->tank/healer rerollers on lfr...
    A whole lot of people level up with a different spec than they end up playing at max level. I know I did on multiple characters.

    Even if you do, though, is learning how to heal a 5 man balanced around the "is this item higher ilevel than the ones I have equipped?" gearing strategy really going to teach you that much about healing a raid? Does learning how to kill a mob that autoattacks and dies in 8 seconds teach you how to counter another team in an arena? And so on and so on.

    95% of what you learn about playing your character at max level is learned at max level. The other 5%, you CAN learn while leveling up - or just as easily at max level.

    The reason people are playing so poorly in LFR is that most people don't consider LFR to be serious content. It's where you go to figure things out about your character if you don't know how to play yet - not where you go once you know what to do.
    Last edited by Shamanberry; 2014-01-19 at 04:29 PM.

  15. #675
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    I think the problem here is that Blizzard tried to slowly introduce micro-transactions into the game and succeeded. It's been going on for years now and every time they have pushed the boundaries a little further. At first it was a services, then a few pets and most people said it's nothing and doesn't change anything.. Well, maybe they didn't change much on their own but take a step back now and take all those cash shop related topics into account. WoW is already following the F2P freemium model now.. only without the free part. You still have to pay the subscription on top of everything.

    I guess you can't really blame them though, they're just taking advantage of their monopoly. If we had 3+ roughly equal MMOs on the market and lots of competition between them, they could never have got away with this.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I think the problem here is that Blizzard tried to slowly introduce micro-transactions into the game and succeeded. It's been going on for years now and every time they have pushed the boundaries a little further. At first it was a services, then a few pets and most people said it's nothing and doesn't change anything.. Well, maybe they didn't change much on their own but take a step back now and take all those cash shop related topics into account. WoW is already following the F2P freemium model now.. only without the free part. You still have to pay the subscription on top of everything.

    I guess you can't really blame them though, they're just taking advantage of their monopoly. If we had 3+ roughly equal MMOs on the market and lots of competition between them, they could never have got away with this.
    It isn't a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination. WoW doesn't just compete with other MMOs. It competes with a broad swath of other video games and other forms of entertainment. It's a commonly propagated fallacy that entertainment products only compete with other entertainment products that fall into the same very, very narrow category. WoW still has to have at least a perceived value, dollar for dollar, that exceeds that of spending that money on other entertainment products, even if there were zero other MMOs on the market.

  17. #677
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I guess you can't really blame them though, they're just taking advantage of their monopoly. If we had 3+ roughly equal MMOs on the market and lots of competition between them, they could never have got away with this.
    Gotten away with what? Charging a subscription while selling things in a cash shop? 90% of free to play games also offer subscription packages. Why does it make a difference what the base level of the game costs? Why is it only bad when Blizzard does it, but not when any other company does it? Magazines, Newspapers, Netflix, Cable Companies, Insurance, Car companies, Airlines, Amazon Prime etc all charge you a subscription fee while also selling you additional items at an extra cost.

    Why is it so wrong for a subscription game to sell additional things at an additional cost?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2014-01-19 at 06:31 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Gotten away with what? Charging a subscription while selling things in a cash shop? 90% of free to play games also offer subscription packages? Why does it make a difference what the base level of the game costs? Why is it only bad when Blizzard does it, but not when any other company does it? Magazines, Newspapers, Netflix, Cable Companies, Insurance, Car companies, Airlines, Amazon Prime etc all charge you a subscription fee while also selling you additional items at an extra cost.

    Why is it so wrong for a subscription game to sell additional things at an additional cost?
    Because Blizzard is not supposed to be a business damnit! It's supposed to be a non-profit organisation with the intent to spread happiness and joy!

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Because Blizzard is not supposed to be a business damnit! It's supposed to be a non-profit organisation with the intent to spread happiness and joy!
    Sarcasm aside, they can do both. The problem with this shitty business attitude is that it goes for the MOST possible profit they can suck out. Which means 100% of the time they will disregard game quality if it means they make one more dollar. It's really sad seeing people perpetuating this toxic philosophy.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Infernix View Post
    I look forward to seeing the WoD threads raging about how terrible everyone 90-100 in dungeons and out in the world leveling.

    Remember all those silly things that you see people doing while leveling up? Priests in melee combat, mages hard-casting Pyro, Pally tanks with a two-hander...That's what the WoD 90-100 experience is going to be like. All because Blizz is hemorrhaging subs and is desperate for cash and players are inherently lazy.
    Are players also inherently flushed with cash?

    And honestly, I would rather play with someone with the desire to play than a burnt out player who goes afk half the time because that's technically the bare minimum he needs to do to claw his way through an instance. At least the new guy will be willing to learn, and if he's not, well then he's going to be a dick no matter the level we play with him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Sarcasm aside, they can do both. The problem with this shitty business attitude is that it goes for the MOST possible profit they can suck out. Which means 100% of the time they will disregard game quality if it means they make one more dollar. It's really sad seeing people perpetuating this toxic philosophy.
    Are they cutting back on developers? Because that would be the first obvious step to suck more profit out of the game, which would obviously hurt the quality of the game. Just because YOU don't like the game anymore doesn't mean the quality has gone down in general.

    The majority of your posts are personal opinions you claim as facts, but that doesn't make them fact though.

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