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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    i think the real shame is that you're defending it because "i don't wanna level for the Nth time so let me skip it". this is the worst possible logic when it comes to game design. just skip it. your like a kid playing an RPG. you skip everything and then what happens? you dunno what to do. thats what. not that everyone would be affected like this, but i can definitely see it being a problem. that aside though, theres a larger underlying problem.

    blizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick. rather than "how can we make the leveling process more intereting? less of a grind? a better way to teach players their class?" you all just say "SCREW IT".
    [snip]
    That's about as far as I got from that complete load of bunkam you wrote

    First off, new players cannot buy a level 90... only a player WITH a level 90 can buy a level 90. They've SEEN the leveling content.

    Secondly, No - blizz is NOT ignoring leveling content. Last I checked, we're going to have 10 more levels next expansion. Guess what? I'm betting the next expansion will have an additional set number o flevels with quests too...

    Thirdly, and this is the big one, YOU are the kind of people that make me sick - because if blizz actually implemented your "How can we make leveling more interest/less grind/ect" instead of this level 90 jump/skip, you will bitch that Blizzard is nerfing the game instead - and you damn well know you would.

    Skipping content you've already seen is perfectly fine... I never replay an RPG simply because I don't want to trudge through that again. If I did want to... I'd do it willingly. Remember, it's the PLAYER option, it's not mandatory.

    And you know leveling doesn't teach you your class or raid encounters... I'd argue that the Brawlers Guild at level 90 teaches a player 10x more to be a hardcore raider than standard leveling ever will how to play their class.

    EDIT: I must note that I'm not really for the level 90 skip, but I argue that it has more to do with charging players for more features in a SUBSCRIPTION based game. Your "points" are completely false as your fears are completely unfounded as NEW players cannot purchase level 90 boosts.
    Last edited by mvaliz; 2014-01-20 at 08:22 AM.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosotti View Post
    Before you throw up, think a little about the retarded things you are saying there. The leveling content until 90 IS ALREADY DESIGNED. Also it's already experienced by hmmmm 90% of the player base or more? They aren't designing it anymore, even the old world revamp was thrashed by a lot of people

    I still like to level alts, and I would never ever buy a fucking level 90 with the price of a new game or whatever price, BUT that doesn't mean many wouldn't prefer that way, and fuck me if I want to fuck up their gaming style by bitching about it.

    There is NOTHING to improve about the leveling process as long as you've experienced it multiple times already, unless they change it again. Not to mention those that hate the leveling by default and wouldn't do it even if it came bundled with a free blow job
    lets ignore the people that hate leveling, as you said if they don't wanna do it they won't. as for the "90% of the game is already designed" load of shit, most of it was designed years ago(TBC and WoTLK) and cata already proved they can over-haul zones. they are already doing technological leaps with connected realms and such. i don't think implementing what i said would be difficult, just time consuming. they don't need to do it all at once either. just over time, implement new small or large things in new area's. it is really not as difficult as you assume considering the technological advances the company has made.


    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    That's about as far as I got from that complete load of bunkam you wrote

    First off, new players cannot buy a level 90... only a player WITH a level 90 can buy a level 90. They've SEEN the leveling content.

    Secondly, No - blizz is NOT ignoring leveling content. Last I checked, we're going to have 10 more levels next expansion. Guess what? I'm betting the next expansion will have an additional set number o flevels with quests too...

    Thirdly, and this is the big one, YOU are the kind of people that make me sick - because if blizz actually implemented your "How can we make leveling more interest/less grind/ect" instead of this level 90 jump/skip, you will bitch that Blizzard is nerfing the game instead - and you damn well know you would.

    Skipping content you've already seen is perfectly fine... I never replay an RPG simply because I don't want to trudge through that again. If I did want to... I'd do it willingly. Remember, it's the PLAYER option, it's not mandatory.

    And you know leveling doesn't teach you your class or raid encounters... I'd argue that the Brawlers Guild at level 90 teaches a player 10x more to be a hardcore raider than standard leveling ever will how to play their class.

    EDIT: I must note that I'm not really for the level 90 skip, but I argue that it has more to do with charging players for more features in a SUBSCRIPTION based game. Your "points" are completely false as your fears are completely unfounded as NEW players cannot purchase level 90 boosts.
    i'm fairly sure that there is no confirmed limits to who can and can't buy a 90 yet. if you would like to cite a 100% confirmed source on that, i'll accede to your point on that.

    on your second point however, in the case we are talking about, we are not talking current tier. we are talking about everything that would be skipped, AKA past tiers. thus your second point is basically not applicable to this specific arguement.

    third, what the hell is that even supposed to mean? "blizz is making a feature more fun/improving it so its getting nerfed"? so long as the end-game remains the same no one will say shit about nerfing, and the people who REALLY hate leveling would simply, as i said above, not level. none of those changes need to be made in one over-arching patch like a new raid or area would. just over time make a quality of life change to the leveling process.

    on your 4th point, its that exact line of thought i don't like. "i've seen it so it doesn't matter". i'd like to make that thought heavily less applicable to the leveling process by adding a heavy amount of randomized events to various areas. making them so that higher level characters can't do them makes it that much more interesting.

    as for brawlers guild, it is a very good way to learn a characters strengths and weaknesses and a good intro to raiding. i don't disagree. however, i'm saying helping the player to learn they're class at level would be a lot better than relying on something like brawlers guild, which was introduced as more of a test of ones mettle rather than a raid teaching mechanic. not that it can't be used as one. basically, i think learning ones character SHOULD come from the leveling process (imagine that in an RPG).

    aside from that would you happen to have any complaints about the actual changes i went forth to put out there? or did you ignore those because you thought it would be easier to ignore and tell me off that way?

    Edit: i just noticed this but i don't even think i mentioned "New Players". just "players". if you were talking about the class teaching thing, then that could apply to anyone starting a new class they haven't had before.
    Last edited by Somaldelhar; 2014-01-20 at 08:46 AM.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    i think the real shame is that you're defending it because "i don't wanna level for the Nth time so let me skip it". this is the worst possible logic when it comes to game design. just skip it. your like a kid playing an RPG. you skip everything and then what happens? you dunno what to do. thats what.
    haha?

    I'm going to get to the part of the game which gives me the widest possible options of stuff to do, and you think I'll get to 90 and go? huh? what's VP? What's a keybind?! HOW DO I TURN??

    Grow up buddy, I'll buy a 90, craft some gear, do dungeons, do lfr and play the game while you'll still be here complaining that this is the worst thing to ever happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primohastat View Post
    That toxicity is normal in WoW. Even classic. And it comes from this what so called elitism, spreading everywhere. Average player say that classic is piss easy and every aspect can be done with minimal effort. But right after that, the same player ignites with rage when someone wants to apply that minimal effort

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    haha?

    I'm going to get to the part of the game which gives me the widest possible options of stuff to do, and you think I'll get to 90 and go? huh? what's VP? What's a keybind?! HOW DO I TURN??

    Grow up buddy, I'll buy a 90, craft some gear, do dungeons, do lfr and play the game while you'll still be here complaining that this is the worst thing to ever happen.
    Nah, you'll buy a 90, do LFR, and then, after doing that two or three times, you'll grow bored of gearing *too* and come to Blizzard and say that it's good that you can buy a char, but gearing chars up is so boring and tedious and takes no skill and you've done it many times now, so could they just please let you buy entry-level gear for raids as well.

    And they will let you.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    haha?

    I'm going to get to the part of the game which gives me the widest possible options of stuff to do, and you think I'll get to 90 and go? huh? what's VP? What's a keybind?! HOW DO I TURN??

    Grow up buddy, I'll buy a 90, craft some gear, do dungeons, do lfr and play the game while you'll still be here complaining that this is the worst thing to ever happen.
    the hell are you even talking about? i'm saying to make it so that the leveling process isn't a straight line so that you don't NEED to hit max level for the widest amount of options. i even went on to say in that exact part that it wouldn't affect everyone in that way. that was an extreme. way to make an out of context post. did you bother reading the rest of that, or did you just decide to take one thing out of context to see if you could manage to troll me? cuz if so, i guess mission accomplished

  6. #706
    lets ignore the people that hate leveling, as you said if they don't wanna do it they won't. as for the "90% of the game is already designed" load of shit, most of it was designed years ago(TBC and WoTLK) and cata already proved they can over-haul zones. they are already doing technological leaps with connected realms and such. i don't think implementing what i said would be difficult, just time consuming. they don't need to do it all at once either. just over time, implement new small or large things in new area's. it is really not as difficult as you assume considering the technological advances the company has made.
    They will NEVER overhaul anything again after most people BITCHED about the Cata overhaul. The overhaul is gone, bye bye, sayonara, a rivederci, auf wiedersehen...

    You don't seem to understand how much time and resources that shit takes, even though the Cata expansion failure is a pretty good indicator that happens if you try to "fix" old content instead of providing a shitload of NEW content.

    And you fail to realize that even if they would change them again, which they won't, ever, it only takes another toon and you AGAIN have seen the content and don't want to do it again, and we're back in the square 1...

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Nah, you'll buy a 90, do LFR, and then, after doing that two or three times, you'll grow bored of gearing *too*
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hos/Ikt/simple

    11 x garrosh kills

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...os/Oknp/simple

    8 x garrosh kills

    If you think I'm going to get bored of the reason I play wow, you're simply telling yourself what you want to hear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primohastat View Post
    That toxicity is normal in WoW. Even classic. And it comes from this what so called elitism, spreading everywhere. Average player say that classic is piss easy and every aspect can be done with minimal effort. But right after that, the same player ignites with rage when someone wants to apply that minimal effort

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hos/Ikt/simple

    11 x garrosh kills

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...os/Oknp/simple

    8 x garrosh kills

    If you think I'm going to get bored of the reason I play wow, you're simply telling yourself what you want to hear.
    So what? I have more kills than you even though I am not much into raiding. The number of kills that you have is nothing spectacular, tell me you aren't bored when you get a total of 50.

    But more importantly, I didn't mean that it is literally you who will grow bored of gearing and ask Blizzard. I meant a proportion of people who'd buy character boosts in general. They *will* say they don't have time to gear newly bought alts, and ask for gear for these alts, guaranteed. Using the same "it takes no skill anyway, it's just tedious" rhetoric. Just wait.

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    So what? I have more kills than you even though I am not much into raiding. The number of kills that you have is nothing spectacular, tell me you aren't bored when you get a total of 50.
    I'm pretty sure the expansion will be out by then :P

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Using the same "it takes no skill anyway, it's just tedious" rhetoric. Just wait.
    But it does take skill. In most LFR's I've been in if you're doing low dps or dying all the time you get kicked, it's going to be even more interesting when tourist mode kicks in and flex becomes the norm.

    And if that was the case and people start asking for paid gear then I will be on your side, but I can't be on your side in favour of a stupid boring unskilled unnecessary gating mechanic because of a possible slippery slope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primohastat View Post
    That toxicity is normal in WoW. Even classic. And it comes from this what so called elitism, spreading everywhere. Average player say that classic is piss easy and every aspect can be done with minimal effort. But right after that, the same player ignites with rage when someone wants to apply that minimal effort

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    But it does take skill. In most LFR's I've been in if you're doing low dps or dying all the time you get kicked, it's going to be even more interesting when tourist mode kicks in and flex becomes the norm.
    Did you miss that video of a guy who was INTENTIONALLY doing nothing or almost nothing in instances and LFR just to see how far he will get. It was back when ToT was current content, he got all 502s and he ended up being kicked *ONCE*. And, again, he was intentionally doing nothing or almost nothing (no DPS to speak of, just something to make the character appear attacking and moving - and something different from zero to appear in the meters - and lots and lots of damage taken, of course).

    As to gating mechanic and boring leveling - I'd have an easier time with them just making character boosts free, if you have a level 90. Maybe there should be a cooldown on that - eg, one level 90 a month or one level 90 a raid tier / arena season. That's bad for FotMs, but it's miles better than the same but paid-for. The main problem I have with the paid boost is that this is one more extra payment in a sub-based game and one more step down the road to p2w.
    Last edited by rda; 2014-01-20 at 12:58 PM.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Babzu View Post
    All those years we made fun of the people saying. "If they sell server transfers whats stoping them from selling gear or max lvl characters? We thought such connection would never happen, since blizzard knows better.
    peopel always knew they eventually will happen when wow will loose enough playerbase that blizzard will need to look for $$$$ in microtransactions like other games -_-

  12. #712
    Has anyone else noticed how in vanilla/tbc wow players were like 10 year olds whining over everything that they didn't have. Then they finally started to get it in wotlk and so on. Now we've grown up and we're like FFFFUUU BLIZZARD STOP GIVING IN TO OUR WHINING. The children have now become the adults, bad parenting Blizzard! Oh, and new players are the spoiled little siblings.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    i think the real shame is that you're defending it because "i don't wanna level for the Nth time so let me skip it". this is the worst possible logic when it comes to game design. just skip it. your like a kid playing an RPG. you skip everything and then what happens? you dunno what to do. thats what. not that everyone would be affected like this, but i can definitely see it being a problem. that aside though, theres a larger underlying problem.

    blizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick. rather than "how can we make the leveling process more intereting? less of a grind? a better way to teach players their class?" you all just say "SCREW IT".

    you wanna know one way to make leveling content more interesting? randomized events. not quests, not mobs, EVENTS. and i'm not talking large holiday stuff either. i mean events that can happen randomly out in the world of warcraft while leveling, perhaps a random large-scale attack between horde and alliance forces that your input can affect(in contested zones). and i don't mean outland PvP objective type things. i mean PvE fights. large amounts of regular mobs attacking other large groups of regular mobs. the side that has more after a certain amount of time wins that fight. this would confer a benefit to the winning side, and maybe even a detriment to the losing one.

    for non-contested zones there could be events that pit your faction against whatever monsters they may be facing at any one time. for example in eastern plaguelands you could have a large scale attack force heading from stratholme to lights hope, and its the players jobs to make sure it is either weakened or defeated by the time it gets there, or it can potentially cause very bad effects(like losing quest-givers or something), and beating them back could confer a buff of the light that increases damage against undead for until the next attack. of course there would be warnings to this and they would be geared for at-level players. maybe phase people of a higher level so that they can't participate in the events, to make it interesting. it would have to be realm(or connected realm) specific though. i realize that plaguelands is technically "contested" but aside from the duels that go on near thondoril river, theres not much PvP. its more of a neutral zone, and a good place to have an "everyone is equal, common enemy" type thing going, against the forces of stratholme. another thing is, there could be a different benefit to just "stalling them" for a certain amount of time, and "beating them back" entirely. perhaps some sort of achievement(that changes depending on the size of the force beat back), a trophy, a piece of gear, maybe a pair of mogg-able gloves that have the argent dawn insignia on the back of them, with a faint glow. of course, these events won't all be solo-able. some will require anyone in the area to help with it like stratholme. others will just be large scale fights that the player can participate in. of course the mobs will be somewhat hard to deal with so a single OP person can't just faceroll his way through the entire opposing army.

    and by randomized, i mean completely. not on a set timer. they have the rolling mechanic already that gives a seemingly random number between 1 and 100. use that to determine a time when said event will happen. its not that difficult a thing to manage honestly, once its set in motion. have a seperate roll for the type of event(depending on area's, certain ones may only get 1 kind of event). the third roll will decide the sizes of the forces that will fight(except for cases like the plaguelands ones, where lights-hope would most likely stay for the most part un-altered, aside from dialogue and what not). this would also mean tiered achievements based on the size of the forces that are fought. again lights hope chapel could have a "Beat back the undead scouts" and a "triumphed over the undead army" achievement for smaller and larger army sizes respectively. mind the forces won't change drastically in contested scenarios, as that would confer an un-fair advantage. its just that one might be slightly smaller or bigger then a set average. not by a lot but by a notice-able amount. for non-contested ones though, the army could range from anywhere from a few groups of 10 to a a few hundred undead. there could even be an option to teleport right to the combat, or rather, the starting point for your side in the conflict(again, for example, lights hope chapel), with a warning saying that the creatures in said area may or may not be a slightly higher level than you after the event is over with, and things return for the most part to normal.

    other ways would be to even out the leveling paces between expansions(and levels) so they don't take dramatic climbs in time needed, but still rise as you level. make dungeons a challenge again. then people wouldn't face roll them and get sick of them in a single sitting, and give them incentive to do quests as a faster alternative to dungeons, while dungeons hold better gear.


    there are PLENTY of ways to improve the leveling process. instead of improvement though, you are advocating turning a very large portion of the game into dead weight for a single continent that will become dead weight in a year or 2. you all make me sick to my stomach. those of you that don't advocate this god-awful mess of a catch-up mechanic, i salute you.
    Sure, there are plenty of ways to improve the leveling, and your ideas are not bad, especially not for a game where plenty of people were still leveling, but they aren't, most people have their max level character(s) and use their time there. Blizzards formula is that end-game is the name of the game, and their method has proved very succesful so far.
    You talk about "cool" random events that require more than one person, which is fun, unless you're alone there and an army of 100 undeads march towards your quest givers and now suddenly you have to find something else to do because the town you were questing near has been wiped out.
    They already tried reworking the leveling experience to get people back, and it did for a short while, but then it fizzled and all the work done in Cataclysm to rework zones was to a degree wasted.
    When you talk about dead weight you have to realise that the leveling process right now is regarded as mostly dead weight, and when they tried to make it "fresh" again it turned out to be a waste of developer time, with the 20/20 hindsight I would rather have seen more content in Cata than the reworked continent, and for a new player, the reworked continent didn't mean anything, because he hadn't seen the original one.
    And please: "Make dungeons challenging AGAIN", dungeons were never challenging, they suffer heavily under heirloom gear, because they are tuned for non heirloom, but they are pretty much the same difficulty as they've always been.
    We might be making you sick to your stomach, but I'm a realist, I won't be using the service, but I can see why they are testing it out.

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Sure, there are plenty of ways to improve the leveling, and your ideas are not bad, especially not for a game where plenty of people were still leveling, but they aren't, most people have their max level character(s) and use their time there. Blizzards formula is that end-game is the name of the game, and their method has proved very succesful so far.
    You talk about "cool" random events that require more than one person, which is fun, unless you're alone there and an army of 100 undeads march towards your quest givers and now suddenly you have to find something else to do because the town you were questing near has been wiped out.
    They already tried reworking the leveling experience to get people back, and it did for a short while, but then it fizzled and all the work done in Cataclysm to rework zones was to a degree wasted.
    When you talk about dead weight you have to realise that the leveling process right now is regarded as mostly dead weight, and when they tried to make it "fresh" again it turned out to be a waste of developer time, with the 20/20 hindsight I would rather have seen more content in Cata than the reworked continent, and for a new player, the reworked continent didn't mean anything, because he hadn't seen the original one.
    And please: "Make dungeons challenging AGAIN", dungeons were never challenging, they suffer heavily under heirloom gear, because they are tuned for non heirloom, but they are pretty much the same difficulty as they've always been.
    We might be making you sick to your stomach, but I'm a realist, I won't be using the service, but I can see why they are testing it out.
    Since when people label themselves as realists and being proud of it? Being a realist doesn't mean being right. However, can be very wrong sometimes.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Since when people label themselves as realists and being proud of it? Being a realist doesn't mean being right. However, can be very wrong sometimes.
    Because we don't live in a perfect world? Sure, if Blizzard had no investors to answer to they could put all their profits into perfecting both leveling and end-game content, but fact is that they do not have unlimited funds to do this.
    Realists are not always right though, oftentimes the wrong decisions are made, and then one can learn from that. But I still think it's better than presenting a number of unrealistic options and then go: "these would be better!". Yes, yes they would, reworking the entire game (making a new game essentially) to make it new and fresh and interesting for everyone again, but is it realistic?

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    i think the real shame is that you're defending it because "i don't wanna level for the Nth time so let me skip it". this is the worst possible logic when it comes to game design. just skip it. your like a kid playing an RPG. you skip everything and then what happens? you dunno what to do.
    No one is "defending" anything because it's not under attack. Blizzard is going through with this move regardless of any tantrums thrown by "hardcore fans" with the misguided notion that their preferences absolutely reflect the general player base's. We are discussing this topic because seeing other players' opinions of this move is interesting. I'm not Blizzard's PR manager. Quit characterizing our discussions as a "defense."

    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    blizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick. rather than "how can we make the leveling process more intereting? less of a grind? a better way to teach players their class?" you all just say "SCREW IT".
    I don't see where design enters into this. The zone design hasn't changed since Cataclysm, and given the negative response that redesign generated I don't think they're inclined to do another redesign again. The purpose of levelling was never to "teach" players how to play the game. It was to give players a fun experience. When Blizzard decided in Cataclysm that the purpose of the entire game was going to be to make players raid then they redesigned the talent tree with the intent to "teach" players how to play. That's why suddenly shadow priests found themselves with shadow form at level 10 instead of level 40. However, that idea of teaching players to raid through levelling and/or dungeons failed miserably. Also levelling is not a grind the first time through. It is a grind for players that have already done it repeatedly. For a first-time player it's all new content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    you wanna know one way to make leveling content more interesting? randomized events. not quests, not mobs, EVENTS.
    This would be a waste of Blizzard's time. How is a new player going to tell the difference between an event and just another quest? Why would an old player bother to level a new player exclusively on the off chance that there would be a new EVENT for them to encounter? This is good for just about no one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    other ways would be to even out the leveling paces between expansions(and levels) so they don't take dramatic climbs in time needed, but still rise as you level.
    The levelling pace was skewed to placate the group of people that would be purchasing these instant level 90s. I would personally love to see it normalized again so that you're not gaining 85 levels in 48 hours followed by 5 more levels over the next 48 hours. Again, though, the reason it was screwed up in the first place was because of this "let's please everyone at the same time" mentality that they've been applying to zones since Cataclysm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    make dungeons a challenge again. then people wouldn't face roll them and get sick of them in a single sitting, and give them incentive to do quests as a faster alternative to dungeons, while dungeons hold better gear.
    Pre-90 dungeons are a challenge... until you get four raiders decked out in full heirlooms tearing through the content at the fastest possible rate while the new player struggles to keep up with a group that's not even giving them time to loot. Imagine yourself as a new player experiencing a dungeon for the first time in that manner. Would you really want to stick around? The best is when someone fully decked out in heirlooms then spams their recount at the end of the dungeon, showing that they did four times the DPS of anyone else. To me that's like charging into a third graders' tackle football game, grabbing the ball, flinging kids from side to side, spiking the ball in the endzone, and then doing a victory lap afterwards. Again, giving those players the opportunity to pay to skip that content instead of ruining it for everyone else would be good for everybody. I have to say that Siege of Niuzao normal mode is one of the hardest dungeons I've done in a long time. I've never seen so many bad tanks and bad healers. I spent like 3 hours finishing this one on my level 89 hunter last week. Every other dungeon, including the heroic ones have been nothing but go go go. It was kind of nice to experience a challenging 5-man for a change. The entire game should be like that. I mean, not three hours long, but challenging for ungeared players. Unfortunately this proliferation of heirlooms has guaranteed that everyone is effectively raid geared up through level 85. That is the problem with the current levelling experience, and if this new buy-a-90 service provides an alternative to heirlooms I'm all for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    there are PLENTY of ways to improve the leveling process. instead of improvement though, you are advocating turning a very large portion of the game into dead weight for a single continent that will become dead weight in a year or 2.
    The levelling process is just fine. It doesn't need to be improved; it just needs to not be ruined. That would mean doing away with heirlooms, rolling back those XP nerfs in Outlands, Northrend, and Cataclysm, and smoothing out some of the item level spikes in the transitions between Outlands, Northrend, Cataclysm, and Pandaria. That's not likely to happen, but that's pretty much what it would take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    you all make me sick to my stomach. those of you that don't advocate this god-awful mess of a catch-up mechanic, i salute you.
    Seriously? The thought of someone having an opinion different from yours makes you physically ill? You should seek professional help. You're way too worked up over a mere game.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2014-01-20 at 06:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  17. #717
    I think it's funny that people still listen to Bliz and quote them for answers when they prove over and over that they're incompetent. Only thing they're good at is art/zone designs. They SUCK at actually balancing their own game, and I mean everything not just class balance.
    If there was a blue post saying the sky was green people would quote it as proof.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    I think it's funny that people still listen to Bliz and quote them for answers when they prove over and over that they're incompetent.
    Statements like this completely undermine your credibility. An incompetent company wouldn't produce a MMO that has 4.5 times as many subscribers as its closest competitor. When you put out a better MMO than Blizzard I'll give credence to you when you make statements like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    They SUCK at actually balancing their own game, and I mean everything not just class balance.
    No one is perfect. Balancing 11 classes with three specs apiece is harder than you might think. I've never seen a game company with good balance. To be honest, half the fun of a MMO is discovering and exploiting imbalances. Granted, as soon as they're publicized they're fixed, but it's still fun to discover them. Name one "good" company that has achieved complete balance in their MMO. I don't think there is one.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Somaldelhar View Post
    i think the real shame is that you're defending it because "i don't wanna level for the Nth time so let me skip it". this is the worst possible logic when it comes to game design. just skip it. your like a kid playing an RPG. you skip everything and then what happens? you dunno what to do. thats what. not that everyone would be affected like this, but i can definitely see it being a problem. that aside though, theres a larger underlying problem.

    blizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick. rather than "how can we make the leveling process more intereting? less of a grind? a better way to teach players their class?" you all just say "SCREW IT".
    I don't really understand why it is considered a bad thing. I think it is a valid reason for some type of players. If people do enjoy levelling, they will. It is suppose a game. When people consider it a chore, then it is no longer a game. This is subjective. Your reason for not allow it to be skipped is as valid as someone who wants to have the option to skip.

    Consider this. WoW is into its 4th XP. The fifth XP is just around corner. However, in order to play the latest XP, you are required, by the very nature of the way the game works, requires you to play through all the previous XP. This is rather unique in game history. Not many games that has XP, or a sequel, that requires the gamer to have played the previous XP. WoW is also unique in the number of XP packs that requires a play through before the the gamer can touch the latest XP.

    Given that WoW is an MMO, and an old one at that, means a majority of its player base is already at the current XP. For a new player expecting a MMO experience, levelling is not it. That was my impression when I switched faction and levelled new characters. The game world was devoid of people. Elements that were to encourage co-operative play were skipped. It was not until LFD was available that I was able to run the older dungeons.

    Blizzard is taking what I consider a neutral stance. The option is there to skip if the player wishes to do so. If a new player will find better entertainment at near end max level where he and she will most likely meet other people to play with, that should be a good thing.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Statements like this completely undermine your credibility. An incompetent company wouldn't produce a MMO that has 4.5 times as many subscribers as its closest competitor. When you put out a better MMO than Blizzard I'll give credence to you when you make statements like that.
    Maybe to people that aren't paying attention. What you're saying is misleading. WoW is survving purely on past popularity at this point. Only thing they have going for them is 10 years of accumulated content and that people have so much time invested that they aren't willing to just quit. There's a reason it's attracting very few new players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    No one is perfect. Balancing 11 classes with three specs apiece is harder than you might think. I've never seen a game company with good balance. To be honest, half the fun of a MMO is discovering and exploiting imbalances. Granted, as soon as they're publicized they're fixed, but it's still fun to discover them. Name one "good" company that has achieved complete balance in their MMO. I don't think there is one.
    Obviously it's not easy. Trees hard to balance? Screw it let's remove them. Classes hard to balance? Screw it make them all the same. Low level dungeons hard to balance? Screw it...do nothing and let them be a joke. Server populations unbalanced? lol do nothing and charge people to switch servers

    The whole game is out of balance with itself, and Blizzard will just feed you excuses on why that's ok. Such as end game being the focus.

    They don't fix things, they bandaid or remove them. There's no need to defend Blizzard outside of playing devils advocate. All they do is release an expansion, give it 1 patch, then start working on the next expansion. They don't care. They're more focused on their cash shop than anything.
    Last edited by Dormie; 2014-01-22 at 02:12 PM.

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