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  1. #141
    Horde have a stronger pvp player base... and they have had one for a very long time. Ever since BC horde have been strong in the pvp side of things. And why not? Look at their races... Big strong warrior orcs, sneaky voodoo empowered trolls, awesome undead assassins and warlocks, big strong bulls that will beat you with massive totem poles. Horde races simply look more warriorish. This results in the horde seeming “cooler” than alliance races do with their cute child like gnomes, drunk dwarves and generic humans. The horde are going to be more appealing to players who just want to go around and face smash other players.

    Faction changes also don't help this because people end up with the “can't beat them, join them” mentality and faction change over to the current, and currently long standing, horde dominant side.

    There also appears to be more pride among horde players than alliance players as well. Most horde players I have met are more involved with the story and exhibit proud behavior in the race they have chosen to be in versus their alliance counterpart. Most alliance players I have met are not involved in the story and really seem depressed about being in the alliance.
    Last edited by muffinss; 2014-01-20 at 06:13 PM.

  2. #142
    Stood in the Fire
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    More evidence the war games approach needs to be applied to random BGs. It will massively help with queue times for the horde, give alliance a hopeful better than 30-40% chance to win any non-40 BG, and perhaps do away with some blacklist nonsense (blacklisting because you dont like the BG = fine. because your faction never wins it = not fine).

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by aSynchro View Post
    IMHO it's because AV & IoC are the only battlegrounds where you can win without fighting the other team, ie: both teams rush to ennemi base and do their stuff.
    that's absolutely not true in IoC. I've noticed after like 1000 IoC's playing as horde that alliance is doing something to destroy horde in ACTUAL pvp there as well. So many times I've looked at the scoreboard to see alliance have like 60-80 killing blows on players while the horde has like 5-10 and whenever the horde zergs either docks or workshop, they meet alliance head on and flat out lose the clusterf*** every time.

  4. #144
    Stood in the Fire ApeDosMil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    horde spends those 20 hours in queue...
    You misinterpreted what I did then. Queue time is not factored. Alliance has to play 20+ hours more a season to get the same gear. And I wouldn't complain about queue when alliance gets Call to Arms for AV or IoC, horde huff and puff that week, not queuing for the CTA and randoms with the blacklist in effect. Our direct queues go from 1-2 minutes to 15-20 minutes on Call to Arms. As someone who plays both horde and alliance I can attest to the fact that queues aren't at all bad for horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispirit View Post
    that's absolutely not true in IoC. I've noticed after like 1000 IoC's playing as horde that alliance is doing something to destroy horde in ACTUAL pvp there as well. So many times I've looked at the scoreboard to see alliance have like 60-80 killing blows on players while the horde has like 5-10 and whenever the horde zergs either docks or workshop, they meet alliance head on and flat out lose the clusterf*** every time.
    Whenever I am horde, the strategy is to zerg and when I am alliance, we send 20-30 to ws and the rest to docks. We get those kills from workshop and rezzers in the keep, not really on the road. Very few kills are attributed to the one-three hordies that know to destroy glaives. We almost always set out to defend glaives, but rarely get much resistance against them. I like IoC a lot as alliance, but if you've seen prior stats before blacklisting, IoC was a horde bg like most others. Whoever's saying it's imbalanced towards alliance must not realize this.

  5. #145
    With blacklisting and fact that more expert players avoid BGs they don't win as much (or don't pvp at all) means that even a small advantage balloons into a much bigger win/loss ratio. Heck back when there was battle groups, win/loss ratios would vary depending on which server group you were in.

    AV favors the alliance due to the horde base being more easily accessible, and the horde towers are more easily taken without killing the NPCs.

    I think the alliance's advantage of IoC is simply that they are able to position the glaives in a more secure location. They can if very carefully placed not only outrange the towers, but on the est side of the horde base can be placed overlooking a ledge that takes a while to get over there. If horde doesn't have experienced stealthers to take out these or is able to make a major push to take out docks alliance will win (and if they do manage this alliance will usually lose, as this is the strat they know the best).

    Horde advantage in other BGs (which are much more symmetrical) is either due to alliance focusing on the BGs they more easily win, or that horde have better pvp racials (which is debatable).

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    You misinterpreted what I did then. Queue time is not factored. Alliance has to play 20+ hours more a season to get the same gear. And I wouldn't complain about queue when alliance gets Call to Arms for AV or IoC, horde huff and puff that week, not queuing for the CTA and randoms with the blacklist in effect. Our direct queues go from 1-2 minutes to 15-20 minutes on Call to Arms. As someone who plays both horde and alliance I can attest to the fact that queues aren't at all bad for horde.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Whenever I am horde, the strategy is to zerg and when I am alliance, we send 20-30 to ws and the rest to docks. We get those kills from workshop and rezzers in the keep, not really on the road. Very few kills are attributed to the one-three hordies that know to destroy glaives. We almost always set out to defend glaives, but rarely get much resistance against them. I like IoC a lot as alliance, but if you've seen prior stats before blacklisting, IoC was a horde bg like most others. Whoever's saying it's imbalanced towards alliance must not realize this.
    Either way horde is still not winning the pvp battles at both workshop and docks no matter how many they send. My point is that there's still pvp in IoC and horde flat out loses it.

  7. #147
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    That grapth shows that all bgs need to be fixed, not just av and isle of conquest...they should all be in the 10% range 0o

  8. #148
    As someone that has shot for the bg meta on both sides (faction changing) I'm surprised I haven't seen mines mentioned favoring horde.

    Started as horde and loved this bg so much, as alliance now it's just unbearable. Horde starts closer to the two shorter paths you need in order to win which gives them time to set up for ring of frost, typhoon etc. It really doesn't help that most alliance also think that they have to take the west track because it's closest (though usually it is a free cap) and end up sending too many people to it.

    Maybe it's just like AV though where ally was losing it more often so they blacklisted it. This would definitely be my #1 blacklist choice if I didn't need the meta.
    Last edited by Aeb; 2014-01-20 at 07:32 PM.

  9. #149
    Stood in the Fire zrankfappa's Avatar
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    The constant whining from the griefers that they cannot easily kill players in PVE gear is pretty hilarious. Seriously ... the tears shed by PVP'ers over this is almost as wonderful as the tears shed by censers when they get ganged up on.

    PVP gear is for Arenas and BG's , PVE gear everywhere else.

    Please ... don't give me some line about WPVP. No one wants WPVP, and no censers aren't WPVP either. Comparing the shenanigans on TI to WPVP is like calling rape sex.

    Gankers want to gank, and they want to gank easily. They do not however, under any circumstances, want to engage in any WPVP.

  10. #150
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    Are this stats from EU or US???
    (Even if the horde win in 10-15 BG, the alliance still won more than lose in the total recount of bgs played, because alterac and IOC are played with much more frequently than 10/15 Bg's)

  11. #151
    People are reading for more in to these graphs than they should. It's missing crucial information that one could only get from having access to the internal database.
    We need the median iLvl for both Horde and Alliance for wins/losses. In addition, we need something to plot out percentage of full pvp gear versus low iLvl pve gear. Perhaps including their rating.
    Would also be handy to know class and spec distributions on those wins/losses. This could quickly get overwhelming trying to understand what's going on -- in a reasonable manner.

    There are only two BG's here that should be able to speak alone: Temple of Kotmogu and Strand of the Ancients. Those are about as even as you're ever going to get.
    Strand I'm very curious about, but I'll never have access to the tools to parse and develop a comfortable understanding of 'why'.

    These numbers were taken over the past month, so it's not unreasonable to take in to account AV and IoC as blacklisted from Horde and that will, perhaps, skew the numbers -- I might even argue that it'd skew them *dramatically*.

    For the person who feels you should be able to PvE in PvP gear (albeit not as well) and PvP in PvE gear -- they tried that in early MoP. People whined because players had PvP gear and were PvE'ing and they aren't trying as hard! People complained so they did a huge PvP nerf to gear that they now regret -- especially with the Timeless Isle "PvP" (I use quotes because they broke it and I won't count it as World PvP).

    As far as the World PvP option -- in my opinion PvP should be supreme. If you don't want to PvP on a PvP server -- realm transfer off. No one is forcing you to stay on a PvP serve. You'll do yourself, and your community, a favor by leaving to somewhere else you'll have more fun.

  12. #152
    Stood in the Fire ApeDosMil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispirit View Post
    Either way horde is still not winning the pvp battles at both workshop and docks no matter how many they send. My point is that there's still pvp in IoC and horde flat out loses it.
    I was trying to reinforce what you said actually, then went off from there. Horde can win IoC the same way alliance does: Wipe the enemy force at workshop and take docks. Horde needs to stop putting any faith in hangar and just leave it be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeb View Post
    As someone that has shot for the bg meta on both sides (faction changing) I'm surprised I haven't seen mines mentioned favoring horde.

    Started as horde and loved this bg so much, as alliance now it's just unbearable. Horde starts closer to the two shorter paths you need in order to win which gives them time to set up for ring of frost, typhoon etc. It really doesn't help that most alliance also think that they have to take the west track because it's closest (though usually it is a free cap) and end up sending too many people to it.

    Maybe it's just like AV though where ally was losing it more often so they blacklisted it. This would definitely be my #1 blacklist choice if I didn't need the meta.
    /agreed. Alliance can definitely win SSM, but our best strategy, unlike horde's "zerg the short tracks" strategy, is to change the tracks on the two you can with groups loosely between the one depot and two carts. Cool thing about SSM though is the importance of stealthies switching tracks and letting the opposing team take the now super long tracked carts, just to be taken from them later by stealthies ganging up on them.

  13. #153
    Good Horde players are always MIA inside of IOC and AV. Horde stopped taking mid and killing glaives so Ally wins most of the time by taking Workshop and Docks. AV is easily Horde winnable if they play it right. They never seem to though.
    There are a million fine looking women in this world but not all of them will bring you lasagna at work. Most of them will just cheat on you.


  14. #154
    Stood in the Fire zrankfappa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElDoorO View Post
    As far as the World PvP option -- in my opinion PvP should be supreme. If you don't want to PvP on a PvP server -- realm transfer off. No one is forcing you to stay on a PvP serve. You'll do yourself, and your community, a favor by leaving to somewhere else you'll have more fun.
    If everyone transferred off PVP servers who didn't want to PVP, they would become ghost towns, and have to be merged.

    I have been on a PVP realm for more than 6 years, there's never been any WPVP ... just the occasional ganking.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    The other bgs are mirrors of each other and temple is just a brawl fight - it may just be that Horde are, in general, better pvpers than Alliance. The statistics clearly show this.
    This is not true.

  16. #156
    I see a few posts saying Horde is better due to racials...

    Anyone mind saying how Horde racials are better than Alliance?
    Priest Warrior
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freegels View Post
    Sum all horde wins from the 11 bgs - 569,1
    Ally - 530,9

    1100 is for 100
    569,1 is for x

    x= 51,7363
    Overall horde wins on 51,73% of all BGs that's not a big w/l ratio
    Though i'm assuming all BGs are played the same amount, which we know is not true
    The Oqueue say the same that this graph, but the alliance still win more Bgs (Adding all the bgs) in total than the horde, and that have an explanation: bgs aren't played in the same amount.
    The most played Bg are AV and IOC

    Watch this:
    i.imgur.com/ZmbxkUq.png
    i.imgur.com/nGjkCwx.png

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    I don't know any one who doesn't have IOC blacklisted, that might be the cause - all good PvP'ers from the Horde simply blacklist it.
    It would be interesting to see the reasons for which people blacklist it. I know a lot of people don't like vehicles. Personally, I love IoC's mechanics but I can't stand losing every time (horde, obv) so I blacklist it. Such a shame, but what can they do?

  19. #159
    The Lightbringer theostrichsays's Avatar
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    I am surprised by the difference in AV still, I am currently horde and if I go in there with a 3-5 man premade I still feel like I win a fair portion of the games. Just settle with the fact that your going to back cap towers and graveyards, and call it a day. Its fairly rare to see a hunter drop a flare on the choke point coming out of the tower before the south towers anymore so its easy to stealth right on to the towers, and ther eis likely only 1 or 3 people up there. But that is simply my personal experience, I honestly don't remember the last time I won IoC as horde, I am sure I have won at least one this expansion but I can not recall when it was.
    Last edited by theostrichsays; 2014-01-20 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Correction

  20. #160
    Seems pretty accurate to me. That's what happens when every Horde toon has a viable racial in PvP. Extra stam, reduced stun duration, AoE stun, AoE silence, WotF, in-combat health regen, touch of the grave, voodoo shuffle, blood fury, and berserking. Goblins are the only race that are really on the short end of the stick. But those racials sure beat everything the Alliance had outside of EMFH.

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