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  1. #761
    This game will be overrun with people who don't know how to play their classes and it seems the community is 100% fine with this..

    This is like eBaying you character. You remember when people eBayed characters? Remember how frowned upon that was? Remember how you could tell who eBayed their characters because they absolutely sucked and didn't know how to play?

    This will be the same thing but now it'll be accepted! Hooray!~

  2. #762
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanos27 View Post
    This game will be overrun with people who don't know how to play their classes and it seems the community is 100% fine with this..

    This is like eBaying you character. You remember when people eBayed characters? Remember how frowned upon that was? Remember how you could tell who eBayed their characters because they absolutely sucked and didn't know how to play?

    This will be the same thing but now it'll be accepted! Hooray!~
    Because leveling to 90 (or 100) teaches you how to play your class and we don't currently have tons of people who don't have a clue how to play their class </sarcasm>

  3. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanos27 View Post
    This game will be overrun with people who don't know how to play their classes and it seems the community is 100% fine with this..

    This is like eBaying you character. You remember when people eBayed characters? Remember how frowned upon that was? Remember how you could tell who eBayed their characters because they absolutely sucked and didn't know how to play?

    This will be the same thing but now it'll be accepted! Hooray!~
    Anyone that believes leveling a character prepares you in any way to be a good player... Is more than likely a bad player.

    Bad players shouldn't complain about bad players.

  4. #764
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Anyone that believes leveling a character prepares you in any way to be a good player... Is more than likely a bad player.

    Bad players shouldn't complain about bad players.
    lol, very true. lol

  5. #765
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Anyone that believes leveling a character prepares you in any way to be a good player... Is more than likely a bad player.

    Bad players shouldn't complain about bad players.
    Sorry but leveling to 100 makes a better prepared gamer than some schmuck who just bought a level 90, jumped into LFR or a dungeon and has no clue. Even if the margin of difference isn't massive on the imaginary skill scale, I'd take a person that leveled a toon over a person that just bought one.

  6. #766
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Sorry but leveling to 100 makes a better prepared gamer than some schmuck who just bought a level 90, jumped into LFR or a dungeon and has no clue. Even if the margin of difference isn't massive on the imaginary skill scale, I'd take a person that leveled a toon over a person that just bought one.
    You're in LFR... You have little choice in who you'd "take".

    And those baddies in LFR are probably characters who just leveled, and their only knowledge about the class is how to kill quest mobs. Hence, their playstyle derived from leveling makes them bad. Leveling makes little difference in a player's skill.

    Sorry, friend.

  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    You're in LFR... You have little choice in who you'd "take".

    And those baddies in LFR are probably characters who just leveled, and their only knowledge about the class is how to kill quest mobs. Hence, their playstyle derived from leveling makes them bad. Leveling makes little difference in a player's skill.

    Sorry, friend.
    Then I would exercise what "little" choices I have.

    and I would still take a gamer that leveled a toon vs someone that bought toon when I have a choice in the matter.

    At least their knowledge of a level 90 would at a minimum be slightly better than a freshly bought 90.

    Sorry, friend.
    Last edited by quras; 2014-01-31 at 03:47 PM.

  8. #768
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Then I would exercise what "little" choice I have.

    and I would still take a gamer that leveled a toon vs someone that bought toon when I have a choice in the matter.

    At least their knowledge of a level 90 would at a minimum be slightly better than a freshly bought 90.

    Sorry, friend.
    If they do anything for the boosted 90 starting quests like they did with Monks & Proving Grounds tech, I doubt it. They'll probably start off better than a leveled 90 since it will have actually pointed out how to use their different abilities rather than just shoving them somewhere in their spellbook each level.

    And I highly doubt they're going to pass up on the opportunity to use the Monk-esque quests and proving grounds tech.

    My best guess (and I could be wrong) is that boosted 90s are going to learn more about their class in the opening quests than those who leveled from level 1 (excluding monks of course).

    But hey, if you really believe that players who level learn a whole lot about performance and solid playstyle, and the ability to quest meets your skill requirements for grouping with people, more power to you

  9. #769
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    If they do anything for the boosted 90 starting quests like they did with Monks & Proving Grounds tech, I doubt it. They'll probably start off better than a leveled 90 since it will have actually pointed out how to use their different abilities rather than just shoving them somewhere in their spellbook each level.

    And I highly doubt they're going to pass up on the opportunity to use the Monk-esque quests and proving grounds tech.

    My best guess (and I could be wrong) is that boosted 90s are going to learn more about their class in the opening quests than those who leveled from level 1 (excluding monks of course).

    But hey, if you really believe that players who level learn a whole lot about performance and solid playstyle, and the ability to quest meets your skill requirements for grouping with people, more power to you
    I on the other hand don't expect blizzard to teach anyone anything to a great extent.

    What I do know is I'd take someone that had many hours of play vs a random noob that just wants a new 90 toon and has no clue beyond some tutorial blizzard cooked up.

    Even if the 2 gamers are not all that great on the imaginary skill scale.

    If I could tell a bought toon from a leveled one I'd be OK with that.

  10. #770
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Then I would exercise what "little" choices I have.

    and I would still take a gamer that leveled a toon vs someone that bought toon when I have a choice in the matter.

    At least their knowledge of a level 90 would at a minimum be slightly better than a freshly bought 90.

    Sorry, friend.
    mr friend like an idiot entered the marines back when we were youngins. When they started learning to shoot the sergeant asked if any of them ever shot a gun. The hick from Georgia proudly proclaimed "sir, i have sir". The sergeant then yelled out "you'll be the worst shooter here".

    You see the experienced shooter had all these bad habits, and proclivities which would negate his ability to apply good habits, and proclivities. In short order he was indeed proved to be the worst shooter out of a bunch of noobs.

    So the people who leveled have bad habits, bad proclivities, no proper guidance, no or low motivation to be good/better.

    leveling doesn't help players in the least and yes does make them bad unless educated or motived.

  11. #771
    Delay the expansion so you can look down on people? Brilliant idea! I bet you wouldn't moan if it were to be delayed, for something you moaned about in the firstplace, right?

  12. #772
    Deleted
    heres a simpler idea

    /w hey did you buy the 90 boost

    /w yea couldnt be bothered leveling again

    /w cool

  13. #773
    Quote Originally Posted by Caliph View Post
    mr friend like an idiot entered the marines back when we were youngins. When they started learning to shoot the sergeant asked if any of them ever shot a gun. The hick from Georgia proudly proclaimed "sir, i have sir". The sergeant then yelled out "you'll be the worst shooter here".

    You see the experienced shooter had all these bad habits, and proclivities which would negate his ability to apply good habits, and proclivities. In short order he was indeed proved to be the worst shooter out of a bunch of noobs.

    So the people who leveled have bad habits, bad proclivities, no proper guidance, no or low motivation to be good/better.

    leveling doesn't help players in the least and yes does make them bad unless educated or motived.
    Your bad example is based on some random assumption someone is going to take some time and teach either player what to do and how to do it.

    More often than not that is not going to happen.

    You show up, ready to play. If I have option A (gamer who played for hours) and gamer B who just bought his toon. I'll choose A.

    A least he invested some time. I'd give that gamer the benefit before some random bought toon gamer. At that point, I don't care why he bought the toon, how much he has to work or how many kids he has to feed and why he can't be bothered to level, that gamer would not be the one I would choose to spend my gaming time with.

    If I had a way to tell his toon was bought and could clearly see he's clueless, that gamer would get kicked before someone that leveled a toon (even though both might get kicked before it's all said and done for poor play).
    Last edited by quras; 2014-01-31 at 04:11 PM.

  14. #774
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Your bad example is based on some random assumption someone is going to take some time and teach either player what to do and how to do it.

    More often than not that is not going to happen.

    You show up, ready to play. If I have option A (gamer who played for hours) and gamer B who just bought his toon. I'll choose A.

    A least he invested some time. I'd give that gamer the benefit before some random bought toon gamer. At that point, I don't care why he bought the toon, how much he has to work or how many kids he has to feed and why he can't be bothered to level, that gamer would not be the one I would choose to spend my gaming time with.
    What context are you talking about?

    LFR, raid, quest? 5man???

    Your logic seems basic so please expand so I know what view point you mean.

  15. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by T Man View Post
    What context are you talking about?

    LFR, raid, quest? 5man???

    Your logic seems basic so please expand so I know what view point you mean.
    Anywhere I can exercise the ability to remove someone beyond questing but mainly end game stuff but I also don't have a problem removing a player from a 5 man either when you come unprepared for your role.

    If we could tell a bought toon vs a toon that was leveled, I'd give the leveled toon gamer some props before someone that just bought it, even if both had to eventually be removed from the group for a lack of skill.

    I'm trying to keep it basic. I just think more kudos needs to go to the gamer that leveled a toon vs someone that bought one.
    Last edited by quras; 2014-01-31 at 04:20 PM.

  16. #776
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Anywhere I can exercise the ability to remove someone beyond questing but mainly end game stuff but I also don't have a problem removing a player from a 5 man either when you come unprepared for your role.

    If we could tell a bought toon vs a toon that was leveled, I'd give the leveled toon gamer some props before someone that just bought it, even if both had to eventually be removed from the group for a lack of skill.

    I'm trying to keep it basic. I just think more kudos needs to go to the gamer that leveled a toon vs someone that bought one.
    If your view is mainly end game stuff, how would you be able to tell anyone who got a lvl 90 when end game stuff would be 100?

    Not sure I follow your logic.

    I can assure you right now a lot of the top raiders / pvper will be taking advantage of this feature to get a spare alt ready for the new lvl of raiding as they will only have to lvl 10 lvls opposed to 99.

  17. #777
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Is it really a bad thing though? If the general consensus is that a player who boosted their character is bad (and vice versa), why would groups not kick these people out?
    Only a JAYLOCK can really and honestly belive that a boosted 90 is automaticly a bad player.

  18. #778
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Your bad example is based on some random assumption someone is going to take some time and teach either player what to do and how to do it.

    More often than not that is not going to happen.

    You show up, ready to play. If I have option A (gamer who played for hours) and gamer B who just bought his toon. I'll choose A.

    A least he invested some time. I'd give that gamer the benefit before some random bought toon gamer. At that point, I don't care why he bought the toon, how much he has to work or how many kids he has to feed and why he can't be bothered to level, that gamer would not be the one I would choose to spend my gaming time with.

    If I had a way to tell his toon was bought and could clearly see he's clueless, that gamer would get kicked before someone that leveled a toon (even though both might get kicked before it's all said and done for poor play).
    I'm sorry but you can't escape your faulty thinking. Leveling doesn't make anyone better and just makes them bad. You remove players from groups because they're bad not because they bought a 90.

    Your entitlement is non sense and arrogant. You're not getting a way to see who insta90ed or leveled. if you know they're bad they're bad how they got bad doesn't matter i.e. leveled or insta90.

    your argument is stupid and wrong. leveling does nothing but harm.

    And my assumption is not an assumption because my friends, guildies, and I are always teaching players how to do something. if you don't you're just one of the problems. But you're not obligated to so you have that on your side.

  19. #779
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Your bad example is based on some random assumption someone is going to take some time and teach either player what to do and how to do it.

    More often than not that is not going to happen.

    You show up, ready to play. If I have option A (gamer who played for hours) and gamer B who just bought his toon. I'll choose A.

    A least he invested some time. I'd give that gamer the benefit before some random bought toon gamer. At that point, I don't care why he bought the toon, how much he has to work or how many kids he has to feed and why he can't be bothered to level, that gamer would not be the one I would choose to spend my gaming time with.

    If I had a way to tell his toon was bought and could clearly see he's clueless, that gamer would get kicked before someone that leveled a toon (even though both might get kicked before it's all said and done for poor play).
    Your scenarios all seem to assume both players are equal (i.e. new toons) with the only difference being one has had more questing time, while the other one simply bought a new toon. So we'll work within those confines (even though this is less likely to be the case in most situations).

    Level 1-10ish, the game puts abilities on your action bar for you and you're on your way to learn that you should kill X amount of Boars for X amount of items. From there everything gets lost in the spellbook, because the new player doesn't really know wtf he's doing. So the player continues to level using whatever abilities he was provided. He learns that X ability hits really hard, and he uses that ability over and over, paying little attention to the other abilities since they don't seem to have much use, given the fact that they don't hit as hard.

    Level 90 boost, the game puts abilities on your action bar for you and (based on hints that we've been given and the model from monk quests) provides some quips on what the abilities do and how they work together. From there, you're sent out into the starting boost quests where you learn how to use abilities that are usually ignored (i.e. monkesque quests). The player is introduced to their class a bit more than the fresh player who is only introduced to how to kill boars.

    --

    The toon who has leveled finally hits level 15 and a big popup on his screen says he can Q for instances. So he does. Now, he's using that really hard hitting ability that results in people shaming him for not doing much damage, because he only knows one spell. He gets frustrated, drops group. Tries again and again a few times over the course of his leveling and receives the same shaming in every run. Finally, he decides that people are stupid, immature and rude, and goes about the rest of his time solo. Upon hitting 90, he gets some stuff of the Isle, decides to give Q'ing another chance, and goes into LFR. By this time, he's gotten so bitter toward everyone around him, he doesn't care what anyone has to say and does his own thing. When someone mentions that he could improve, he tells them to fuck off.

    The toon who was boosted learned a very small amount about how their abilities work together, get to see them in action in the starting zones, goes out to the Isle, gears up, hits LFR and beats your leveled toon in DPS. Having boosted the same class your other guy leveled, he tries to offer some friendly advice on what he learned. The immediate, seemingly unnecessary response is "fuck off".

    --

    While these scenarios are of course limited in their view, they're probably more common (and likely to be more common) than it may initially seem.

    And honestly, the main thing everyone needs to keep in mind:

    Good players are good because they want to be good.

    Bad players are bad because they don't care.

    Regardless of how much you level, how many tutorials there are or how much information is thrown in your face, only the one's who care to excel will be good players no matter how much questing they may or may not have done.

    However, if we're discussing JUST the skill you gain from questing to 90? Yeah, there's little to none. Keep spamming that one hard hitting spell throughout your career. The good thing is that the boosted 90 who offered you advice will get kicked quicker than your 20k dps toon who quested.
    Last edited by Louis CK; 2014-01-31 at 04:35 PM.

  20. #780
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    If we could tell a bought toon vs a toon that was leveled, I'd give the leveled toon gamer some props before someone that just bought it, even if both had to eventually be removed from the group for a lack of skill.
    SO the guy with ONE leveled toon deserves more prob then the guy that boosted his 12th char insead of leveling it like the 11 before? yeah, sound right... in your head only!
    ^^

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