Preventing PvP on a PvE Realm: No More "Accidental" Flagging

[darkwarrior42]

no i mean youre so apathetic that even when you have a chance to stop someone from killing someone else ie me just a hunter that is on his own. you would rather ride of and give me the chance to get someone else because chances are if im censured and the heat is on and ive been killed twice ill go back to my home server.

Some gankers do it to try and provoke a big fight, or other people jumping in.

If there's even a slight chance that I could give you what you want by attacking you, I'd rather move on. I will let my "allies" suffer just to spite you.

[Vecroct]

Well said Azrile, exactly... there are abilities that will flag you without clicking on those PVP greifers and why should pve players be forced to limit their used abilities for fear that they could become flagged. The game is broken in this regard, no one wants to admit it, but luckily Blizzard is making a fix coming up now!

[Lalicat]

So...here's a random situation that happened to me.

1) I am a healer on a PVE realm.

2) Join a cross-realm group killing Celestials. CRZed into a PVP realm. (Not aware it was PVP at time - but that's what happens with oQ, and will start to happen more with WoD group-finder.)

3) Participating in the fight... During the fight I heal a player who (apparently) was taking damage from Horde trying to muck up the encounter. That's my best guess, anyways. We had 40 people taking damage - had no idea who was taking damage from Horde, and who was taking damage from the boss.

4) Celestial dies, I drop group, CRZ back onto my PVE server and I am still flagged.

5) Find out I'm flagged when a group of flagged folks on Timeless Isle murder me.

As an FYI, I am okay with what happened. It took 10 seconds of my time to res, and they didn't bother me again. That said, people were asking for situations where "accidental flagging" could happen. Should the flag have dropped when I phased back to the PVE server?

I dunno. Something to think about.

[OrcsRLame]

I'll never understand the issue. Even when leveling alts on high-pop pvp realms I rarely actually die; To accidentally flag yourself and die within those 5 minutes takes actual skill.

Immersion people, immersion; We're really starting to lose it, stop gettign rid of it.

Frankly, everyone that says they don't participate in PvP because 'they don't like it' just suggests to me that they're awful at it, sorry, but it does - Stop saying it. You sound like one of those guys that hates LotR and questions why it's so popular after watching 30 minutes of the first film. Not wanting to do bgs = Fine. Complaining that you die because YOU fucked up and got flagged and you were outplayed by the other person is just retarded (In fact, pve players even have the UPPER hand in world pvp, you REALLY have no excuse).

Or the pvp in this game sucks balls, and people like me only play for the fantastic endgame pve. If I wanted to pvp, I'd load up lol, hearthstone, halo or starcraft, depending on my mood.

[apepi]

I can see this just being used to killing people without getting flagged, you know it is going to happen. Just leave is as it is.

[Elliebean]

Frankly, everyone that says they don't participate in PvP because 'they don't like it' just suggests to me that they're awful at it, sorry, but it does - Stop saying it. You sound like one of those guys that hates LotR and questions why it's so popular after watching 30 minutes of the first film. Not wanting to do bgs = Fine. Complaining that you die because YOU fucked up and got flagged and you were outplayed by the other person is just retarded (In fact, pve players even have the UPPER hand in world pvp, you REALLY have no excuse).

Yeah, personally, I'm awful at PVP. I don't have the reflexes and I don't find getting roflstomped by someone else repeatedly fun. I've tried low level PVP and while I had a -lot- of fun twinking my characters out and doing runs to find the materials for the best enchantments, actually getting out on the field was boring (Granted, my problem was I was playing an enhance shaman paired with a hunter and a priest, and no one told me what our plan was because they assumed I knew, even though I told them I had no clue what we were doing...) For me at level PVP is annoying and frustrating, and low level is boring.

So I do get pretty annoyed when I'm out minding my own business, leveling, and I get flagged because while I'm tanking a mob with my pet, someone flagged runs out, gets hit by my pet's stomp, and then goes after me. I don't have an advantage, I don't know how to PVP. I don't know how to counter his attacks, I don't know how to hold off his attacks. I disengage and try to slow him and hope for the best as he beats the shit out of me. Maybe they've changed this since I played a lot, but I know it would piss me off to no end.

Why should I need to change my playstyle, especially something as simple as having a pet using it's tanking spec and ability, because people are douchebags? I don't want to hit them, I don't personally hit them, but because they get hit by my pet's stomp before I realize they're there and can turn it off, I'm free game.

[Stir]

More hand holding. Perhaps the game should be renamed World of Mutually Consensual Conflict-Craft.

If you want to play PvP, you roll on a PvP server.
If you want to play PvE, you roll on a PvE server.

There is absolutely no reason why anyone else should be allowed to dictate what I want to do with MY gaming time. If you don't like that, then I can't care.

[Jilor]

I've always been on PvP realms, but I'm quite surprised how much this seems to be an issue for people on a PvE realm. So you tagged someone, big deal? Yeah, I get it, you don't wanna fight someone. But at the worst, it means you're running back from the gy. What's the cooldown on being flagged? 5 minutes? Go make a sandwich.

So your solution, in the event someone does become accidentally flagged (even if it's no fault of their own, due to inexperience or random bugs) is they not play for 5 minutes? What if they only play an hour or two a day? That's either 8.3% of their day or 4.2% of their day spent doing nothing. Not having fun playing a video game, not doing whatever it is they enjoy. Thank God you don't run a business. I'd hate to see someone like you in charge of customer service.

[Gangplank]

for example for world bosses

I actually feel -- even on a PvE realm -- that world bosses should be one area of contention suitable for being flagged. I don't see how it's fair to the faction that tags a world boss first, that they automatically get rights to it while the opposing faction gets to sit there and watch. World bosses should come at a consequence imo... may the better faction win.

[darkwarrior42]

I'll never understand the issue. Even when leveling alts on high-pop pvp realms I rarely actually die; To accidentally flag yourself and die within those 5 minutes takes actual skill.

Immersion people, immersion; We're really starting to lose it, stop gettign rid of it.

I'll agree with you that this change will ruin immersion when the following changes are made:

-Killing NPCs of the other faction has a meaningful impact on said faction, beyond making some people wait on a respawn. (Killing the faction leader disables critical city functions while he/she recovers, killing auctioneers disables auctions temporarily and causes an increase in AH cuts, killing all faction leaders leads to increased taxes on vendor goods from all vendors associated with that faction, the ability to actually take towns from the other faction and make them your own, etc.)
-You can flag PvP to attack your own faction.
-Friendly Fire is enabled at 100% strength
-The Targeting mechanic is removed in favor of skill shots, save for certain spells which would have auto-aiming as part of the benefit of the spell.

In other words, when they take away all the other mechanics that already exist in-game that favor gameplay and mechanics over immersion, I'll agree that changing a system that already exists to keep people who don't want to PvP from being forced into it to be more effective at achieving its intended goal is also reducing immersion.

[-Superman-]

More hand holding. Perhaps the game should be renamed World of Mutually Consensual Conflict-Craft.

If we are on a battlefield, it should be war. If we invade each other's cities, it should be war. If we are at a peaceful festival and some asshat decides to mount up and flag, and wait for someone to interact with an NPC, we have to stop, zoom in, walk through the mount, set the friendly name plate clicking, and then walk up to the NPC to avoid them. Even the GUARDS will drop us and this shithead gets to sit back and laugh about it. I am sick and fucking tired of modifying my gameplay to work around assholes.

[Gangplank]

So your solution, in the event someone does become accidentally flagged (even if it's no fault of their own, due to inexperience or random bugs) is they not play for 5 minutes?

I would say... be more careful? I do apologize though. As said I've only ever known PvP realms, so the idea of someone playing a game about alliance vs. horde and not wanting anything to do with "warcraft" is beyond me. So they tagged someone accidentally through lack of experience? Well, it only takes doing it once to learn your lesson. As said, big deal. Respawn, run somewhere else, and continue not playing warcraft.

[Deathgoose]

I actually feel -- even on a PvE realm -- that world bosses should be one area of contention suitable for being flagged. I don't see how it's fair to the faction that tags a world boss first, that they automatically get rights to it while the opposing faction gets to sit there and watch. World bosses should come at a consequence imo... may the better faction win.

I'm glad you feel that way, and they made PvP realms specifically with that in mind.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I think he was referring to quest/vendor/AH/bank type NPC's. No one gives a shit if you kill the faction leaders and every guard in a capitol, but if you go into crossroads/goldshire/lowbie hub of your choice with your bored 5v5 arena team and kill every quest NPC that spawns just to fuck with lowbies on a PvE realm, when they rolled on that kind of realm [I}SPECIFICALLY SO THEY DID NOT HAVE TO BE BOTHERED WITH WPVP[/I], then the ones that are spawn camping are effectively griefing.

Quest/Vendor/Flight/etc NPCs should show as red but be untargettable on a PvE realm.
Guards/Faction leaders are fair game, because their death has little to no impact on unflagged players minding their own business.

I don't agree in the slightest, and I know exactly what he meant. And no, I don't think thats griefing in a game partially built around the Horde v Alliance conflict,,, regardless of whether you're on a babybear server.

[Deathgoose]

I can see this just being used to killing people without getting flagged, you know it is going to happen. Just leave is as it is.

In what scenario would I be able to kill another player without being flagged?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't agree in the slightest, and I know exactly what he meant. And no, I don't think thats griefing in a game partially built around the Horde v Alliance conflict,,, regardless of whether you're on a babybear server.

And more insults *Babybear server*. This is why PVPers get more negative attention. Because they condescend.

[Stir]

I would say... be more careful? I do apologize though. As said I've only ever known PvP realms, so the idea of someone playing a game about alliance vs. horde and not wanting anything to do with "warcraft" is beyond me.

And that's absolutely fine.
The idea that we should constantly attack one another, interrupt one another's progression, and be competitive in an environment where we could just have fun, relax, not worry too much and do team stuff is beyond me.

And beautifully, there's servers for both of us, so that we can respect one another's preferences while not stifling one another's game experience. All's well in the gaming world. You can have your fun, I can have mine, and we can talk and laugh about the things we did over a beer at the pub.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The griefing takes place in Moonglade, or BootyBay, or during some other world event where some dimwitted asshat flags himself and parks on an NPC. Yes, I know I can zoom in and walk through the mount. Yes, I know I can show friendly nameplates only. But why, on a PVE realm should I have to tolerate PvP shenanigans from bored little shitheads with nothing better to do before mom calls them for dinner? If it were a PVP realm, I would be told to STFU and reroll on PVE. So... since it is a PVE realm, they should STFU and reroll on PVP.

PVE =/= no pvp ever, for the record. None of what you mentioned in your OP is griefing.

[darkwarrior42]

And more insults *Babybear server*. This is why PVPers get more negative attention. Because they condescend.

I know it's certainly one of the big reasons I don't PvP in this game... I got tired of the insults a long time ago, and the negative and arrogant attitudes are so rampant that when I hear someone say that they do any kind of serious PvP, I have to fight hard against my impulse to instantly judge them as an arrogant ass not worth listening to and actually see what they say and how they act.

[-Superman-]

I think he was referring to quest/vendor/AH/bank type NPC's. No one gives a shit if you kill the faction leaders and every guard in a capitol, but if you go into crossroads/goldshire/lowbie hub of your choice with your bored 5v5 arena team and kill every quest NPC that spawns just to fuck with lowbies on a PvE realm, when they rolled on that kind of realm SPECIFICALLY SO THEY DID NOT HAVE TO BE BOTHERED WITH WPVP, then the ones that are spawn camping are effectively griefing.

Quest/Vendor/Flight/etc NPCs should show as red but be untargettable on a PvE realm.
Guards/Faction leaders are fair game, because their death has little to no impact on unflagged players minding their own business.

Precisely. At lvl 8, I should not have to watch a lvl 90 lock repeatedly kill my questgiver at 2AM when no one is around to help. Even by the time I come back with any of my own 90s, I am in a completely different CRZ. So there is no chance to get even. This asshole wastes an hour of my playtime and I should have to put up with it? FUCK THAT... and fuck anyone who agrees with that.