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  1. #161
    Herald of the Titans Deathgoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Like I said, the bugged/broken spells should be fixed. If I am hitting tab-immolate-tab-immolate-tab-immolate-tab-immolate-tab-immolate-tab-immolate or clicking multiple targets, it is my fault for dotting up an enemy player.
    You seem to be doggedly against "mistake removal" to prevent inadvertent flagging.

    Can you please explain how allowing it to happen is a good thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    So not only we can just aoe the dungeons, we can aoe the open world with 0 consenquences.
    That is the point, yes. Otherwise, we would roll on a PvP server. I'm glad you are following along.

    Also, AoE damage spells don't hit flagged opponents unless you are also flagged.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Well, I understand where you're coming from, but flagging as a PvE character is based on a player's action to flag themselves (even if it's on accident), so I'm not sure it's us making you PvP. The systems that can cause someone to flag can absolutely at times be involuntary, which is notably frustrating.

    In any case we are continuing toward a goal of a PvP on/off toggle for players on PvE realms to be added in Warlords of Draenor, which would absolutely and in all situations allow someone to refrain from becoming flagged regardless of their actions. Heals toward flagged players would fail, coalescing to PvP realms wouldn't be possible, misclicks and AoE's would never damage a flagged opponent, etc. It's actually quite a bit of work because of all the systems involved, but it's still something we think PvE players should have, and how the game should work for them.

    ~ Bashiok
    Source

    So, PvE players will finally get to avoid the PvP antics of instigators. It's about time. PvP has no place on a PvE realm. It belongs in Arenas, BGs, and PvP/RP-PvP realms. I see the need to have NPCs for "For The Alliance/Horde" to be made killable, but flagging is not needed for that even. They would simply be Red to opposing factions (Guards and Kings only). Every other NPC should get the same setting as child characters in the game. Auctioneers, boatmen, vendors, etc. None of them should be killable, not on PvE realms.

    PvP has it's place, and now, just like neutering Twinks, we can neuter griefers.
    I agree with the decision, but then remove achievements such as the Censer that require World PvP, because realistically unless you abuse cross-realm zoning there is no possible way to get such achievements without "tricking" people into flagging themselves.

  3. #163
    You know what happens when you die in this game? Other than a repair bill, absolutely nothing. While I do agree that players should be able to opt out of PvP on a PvE server, people should be less afraid of dying in a video game... It's going to happen, and no real consequences are going to come from it.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by MyLifeIsRandom View Post
    Isn't the main premise of the game Horde vs Alliance? Also, how do you accidentally flag yourself?
    Rightclicking a flagged player standing on a vendor or questgiver with a huge mount

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caninese View Post
    You know what happens when you die in this game? Other than a repair bill, absolutely nothing. While I do agree that players should be able to opt out of PvP on a PvE server, people should be less afraid of dying in a video game... It's going to happen, and no real consequences are going to come from it.
    You don't get a repair bill when you die to player damage, only if a mob or environment gets killing blow(heard about a pet bug making killing blows from pets cause durability loss, not sure if its fixed or not)
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Just because Mannoroth and Archimonde are involved doesn't mean it's Legion. They could just be on vacation, demolishing Draenor to build their new summer home.
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  5. #165
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    I've played the game for 7 years and I've never once considered any form of pvp "griefing". Even if I got ganked, got teamed up on, got camped. I had fun with it. It's rare to have no way of getting revenge. Even if you're outnumbered, you can almost always still cause them grief unless you're A.) completely new to the game and have no high level character or B.) suck. Otherwise you can still fuck with people, even if there's not much you can about it for whatever reason. It's part of the game and part of the experience. It's also easily avoidable if you're on a pve server. Just don't be ignorant about it and then blame Blizzard for your mistakes.

    I've even made friends on Horde side before just from my persistence when the odds were against me. I would keep going back, having fun with it, fucking people up, letting them know that they wouldn't be killing me if the odds weren't unfair, playing games with them, deploying my ridiculous amount of toys and fun items to blow their minds, even using engineering on my lowbie (or mains) to mind control, net, stun or get away from high level enemies. Good fucking times. Shame a lot of people miss out on that.
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    If people don't want to pvp, they shouldnt have to pvp, especially on pve servers which are generally incredibly imbalanced faction wise.
    What?

    PvE servers incredibly imbalanced?

  7. #167
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyLifeIsRandom View Post
    That's a main feature of the Timeless Isle, though. If you're alone, you can just let a rare they are by maul them to death. That or watch what you're targeting. If they're by the celestials or Ordos, you should have a lot of people backing you up that will make any ass hat an easy kill. Then you can just chill at base camp for 5min. or so. Alternatively, if they are just there to screw with people, you can all take some responsibility and report them for their behaviour.

    You are forgetting the main reason to have a PVE realm. People join PVE realms because they don't want unexpected/uninstanced pvp.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  8. #168
    How is a players lack of caution around others remotely Blizzard's problem? A zero risk death that stems from a generally easily avoidable situation now equates to griefing? What's next, someone beating you to a mine node is griefing? You making a mistake and grossly overpaying on the AH = griefing?

    If you want to be so insulated from the behavior of others that they might as well be NPC's, I have to wonder why you're in this genre to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    You are forgetting the main reason to have a PVE realm. People join PVE realms because they don't want unexpected/uninstanced pvp.
    PvP on TI shouldn't be unexpected.

  9. #169
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    PvP on TI shouldn't be unexpected.

    It should when it says on the info page that there is no uninstanced pvp if you don't want it.


    IF you DO want uninstanced pvp you join a pvp realm.



    See how this works?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    It should when it says on the info page that there is no uninstanced pvp if you don't want it.


    IF you DO want uninstanced pvp you join a pvp realm.


    See how this works?
    The existence of the censure across all realms says you're wrong. Anything beyond that is players simply not being careful. You might as well complain that you got auto-flagged by running through Wintergrasp.

  11. #171
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The existence of the censure across all realms says you're wrong. Anything beyond that is players simply not being careful. You might as well complain that you got auto-flagged by running through Wintergrasp.

    The ability to use /flag says you are wrong. Uninstanced pvp does not mean no pvp. I means pvp will only happen if you agree to it. Which is why censure requires the person to be flagged.


    Those saying the person is not being careful clearly have never played a healer during world bosses. Smart heals and AoE heals on a pvp flagged player = you getting flagged.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The existence of the censure across all realms says you're wrong. Anything beyond that is players simply not being careful. You might as well complain that you got auto-flagged by running through Wintergrasp.
    Step back from your self-righteous post for a second and actually think a bit. What's wrong with having a "no PvP" flag?

    The whole point of "flagging" on a PvP server is to be able to choose to attack PvP marked targets while opening yourself up to PvP by doing so. It is not there so you can be tricked into opening yourself up to PvP when you do not want to PvP. Whether you call a person "stupid" down from your mile-high horse for falling for the trick is irrelevant, it's not fun for a person who did not want to PvP to suddenly find himself opened up for it.

    Now do I think Censer needs reworking and/or achieves need to be changed? Yes, because right now if you are on PvE server, the only realistic way to get a significant # of coins without abusing cross-realm grouping is to trick other people into flagging by camping on rares/objects while Censer'ed. Otherwise you will find the grind literally impossible.

  13. #173
    Maybe they just need to decrease the time you stay flagged when you are dead, so you can just fast rez and continue your shit.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Obviously loves to argue, but hates to read.



    Does this help? Or should I increase the font size.
    Thats "harassment", not griefing. Its ironic that you were condescending to me about reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Someone else gets it too. The only people opposed to removing PvP from PvE realms would be those who get their rocks off by griefing others themself.
    Don't use straw mans. I know you love using them in ever post you make.. but seriously.. stahp./

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    You just like to be argumentative. If I have 30 minutes to fit in some game time, I should not have to waste 20 of it waiting for respawns. People do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO IMPEDE THE GAMEPLAY OF OTHERS. Blizz has seen that which is why they are implementing this for WoD. So, this WILL happen, and world griefing WILL vanish. So honestly, nitpick and wordscramble all you like, cause they have already put in motion something LONG OVERDUE.
    You act as if Blizzard is forcing you to play that toon, in that specific area, waiting for that NPC to respawn. Not that it takes 20 minutes for quest NPCs to respawn. Its intented by Blizzard that you can kill quest faction NPCs, so yes, they have the right, much to your chagrin. They aren't changing anything about killing NPCs or leaders though, which is what this is about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Between Giscoicus and Lemonparty, it is hard to say who is the bigger pedantic of semantics.
    Semantics are important in a text based communication medium. If you don't like being corrected, then learn to use correct wording.

  15. #175
    I am Murloc! Sting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Step back from your self-righteous post for a second and actually think a bit. What's wrong with having a "no PvP" flag?

    The whole point of "flagging" on a PvP server is to be able to choose to attack PvP marked targets while opening yourself up to PvP by doing so. It is not there so you can be tricked into opening yourself up to PvP when you do not want to PvP. Whether you call a person "stupid" down from your mile-high horse for falling for the trick is irrelevant, it's not fun for a person who did not want to PvP to suddenly find himself opened up for it.

    Now do I think Censer needs reworking and/or achieves need to be changed? Yes, because right now if you are on PvE server, the only realistic way to get a significant # of coins without abusing cross-realm grouping is to trick other people into flagging by camping on rares/objects while Censer'ed. Otherwise you will find the grind literally impossible.
    If you care about open world pvp achievements why are you on a PvE realm?

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    If you care about open world pvp achievements why are you on a PvE realm?
    The achievements are common to all realms, and prior to the Censer there have been no open world PvP achievements. The only PvP achievements other than the Censer are from Battlegrounds, Arena, and PvP-designated areas. I did not say the Censer needed outright removal, but I do not think it's really made "that" well for PvE realms. Realistically at this moment the only way to farm coins is to trick people into flagging.

    One option, for instance, would be to allow players, every 10 minutes, to kill the Censer-flagged person for a bloody coin (that debuff would be on the killer, not the Censer'ed person) which would incentive people killing Censer-people and thus flagging and opening themselves up to Censer attack from their target or from other Censers.

    It's also more fun. Right now while unflagged and listening to people bitching about being Censer-nuked I actually have zero incentive for dueling the Censers myself. I just get flagged and possibly killed (either now or later), possibly having my rare camping ruined, and for no reward even if I succeed. A Bloody Coin for the kill, given how hard they are to get on PvE realms, would be good incentive to risk 10 minutes of rare camping (and possibly being Censer-nuked later) in order to grab a coin, and gain the general-chat-glory of "rescuing" the whiners from the Censers.

    It also, by me and others adding to flagged players, makes it easier for the other Censer people to find flagged people to kill.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2014-02-04 at 07:29 AM.

  17. #177
    Banned -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The existence of the censure across all realms says you're wrong. Anything beyond that is players simply not being careful. You might as well complain that you got auto-flagged by running through Wintergrasp.
    Wintergrasp should be phased like every other BG, and look dormant like Zul Gurub when flying over or even landing. We should be able to enter the zone, with caution (based on who controls it) and not be flagged unless we engage in combat with opposing forces. Autoflagging just by flying over something is ridiculous and outdated.

  18. #178
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    I like it, no more being ganged up on because you are PvP flagged due to some PvP flagged healer. Though, still Wonder... how does it affect healing PvP flagged people? Would a message come that the person is PvP flagged or do you just get flagged?
    Last edited by Lochton; 2014-02-04 at 01:56 PM.
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  19. #179
    Banned -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Thats "harassment", not griefing. Its ironic that you were condescending to me about reading.

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    Don't use straw mans. I know you love using them in ever post you make.. but seriously.. stahp./

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    You act as if Blizzard is forcing you to play that toon, in that specific area, waiting for that NPC to respawn. Not that it takes 20 minutes for quest NPCs to respawn. Its intented by Blizzard that you can kill quest faction NPCs, so yes, they have the right, much to your chagrin. They aren't changing anything about killing NPCs or leaders though, which is what this is about.

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    Semantics are important in a text based communication medium. If you don't like being corrected, then learn to use correct wording.
    I know you "think" you are saying something when you throw around phrases like "straw man" and other latin bullshit. Simple fact of the matter is Blizz is providing a resource to keep players, not unlike myself, from having to interact with PvP in any way, shape, or form. Personally, I am pleased about it, and wish it had come with the launch of the game. Maybe I would not despise PvPers so much for their attitudes.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    So, PvE players will finally get to avoid the PvP antics of instigators. It's about time. PvP has no place on a PvE realm. It belongs in Arenas, BGs, and PvP/RP-PvP realms. I see the need to have NPCs for "For The Alliance/Horde" to be made killable, but flagging is not needed for that even. They would simply be Red to opposing factions (Guards and Kings only). Every other NPC should get the same setting as child characters in the game. Auctioneers, boatmen, vendors, etc. None of them should be killable, not on PvE realms.

    PvP has it's place, and now, just like neutering Twinks, we can neuter griefers.
    I never understood why is this such a hot topic issue and elicits so much butt hurt. I mean you got flagged and killed like once...maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe twice, mostly because you have the environmental awareness of a blind snail. Common Superman, deal with!

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