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  1. #561
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    Losing almost 6 million (nearly 50%) customers is never a good thing.
    For starters, you don't have the numbers right. Why does every argument that the game is doing poorly have to overestimate the numbers? It's peak was 12 Million. The last report was 7.6 Million. That's only 4.4 Million lost from the peak. But yeah, let's just round up TWO numbers. Furthermore, you are neglecting the fact that MMOs have large churn rates. WoW has lost likely upwards of 100 million customers over the last decade. The reason they have maintained subscription numbers have been to keep getting new players. They have stated these concepts themselves.

    This means that the market for WoW specifically has grown very saturated and/or they are getting worse at drawing new players, which means they need to focus on retention and regaining past players. You have to use very different strategies depending on what your goals are. This is a period of retooling their marketing, figuring out how to get players back, and making up for lost revenue streams in the process.

    This isn't witchcraft or devilry, it's simply adapting to changes that happen to any business with this model. Netflix will go trough the same thing. Eventually everyone will have or have tried Netflix. Some people will be lost to competitors, some people will go out of the market entirely, they will have to figure out how to attract old customers and have better retention when the pool of new people dwindles.
    BAD WOLF

  2. #562
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    The game is 10 years old and in decline. Anybody who thinks that any change they make will magically increase numbers is stupid.
    i don't know if it's that stupid. Maybe it's possible, maybe it isn't.
    I believe blizzard is well experienced and competent when it come to these issues but there are not gods among men either, they too make mistakes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    For starters, you don't have the numbers right. Why does every argument that the game is doing poorly have to overestimate the numbers? It's peak was 12 Million. The last report was 7.6 Million. That's only 4.4 Million lost from the peak.
    you don't take into account changing costumer habits. in their last reports, blizzard have clearly stated that there was a shift in costumer behavior, they tend to unsub between patch more than before. This does not affect sub sumber, since you only need to have an active account once in the quarter to be counted as a sub, but it surely effect revenue.

  3. #563
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    you don't take into account changing costumer habits. in their last reports, blizzard have clearly stated that there was a shift in costumer behavior, they tend to unsub between patch more than before. This does not affect sub sumber, since you only need to have an active account once in the quarter to be counted as a sub, but it surely effect revenue.
    Sure, but it doesn't really make a difference to what other people are trying to say by using sub numbers to justify wow is 'failing', 'declining', etc. Those players still play the game in some capacity. Also my larger point was it is irrelevant to say subs have gone down and attribute it to a finite group of players gradually leaving, since that's never how MMO's operate. They all lose way, way more players than we think because of constant churn.

    You are correct though. I have done it a couple of times over this xpac even though I enjoy it a lot. If I wanted to take a break I would cancel my sub, play some other games for a month, then come back when a patch hits.
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  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Sure, but it doesn't really make a difference to what other people are trying to say by using sub numbers to justify wow is 'failing', 'declining', etc. Those players still play the game in some capacity. Also my larger point was it is irrelevant to say subs have gone down and attribute it to a finite group of players gradually leaving, since that's never how MMO's operate. They all lose way, way more players than we think because of constant churn.

    You are correct though. I have done it a couple of times over this xpac even though I enjoy it a lot. If I wanted to take a break I would cancel my sub, play some other games for a month, then come back when a patch hits.
    regardless, not sure we should be talking about sub, this is not the topic of the thread.

    This thread is discussing wether or not the "amount" of new content is acceptable given the $15 monthly sub, or if blizzard should pump more content for the money. This discussion is especially applicable in "end" of expansion, were typically the last raid lasts about a year and the next content is actually not free ($40 expansion). Is that acceptable? Should blizzard do more? Do you want more?

    Given the fact that you admit to unsub a few time during the last expansion, you implicitly agree that content patch are lackluster either in quantity, quality or diversity to keep you interested enough to justify a subscription. Is that correct?

  5. #565
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    regardless, not sure we should be talking about sub, this is not the topic of the thread.
    It was the topic of what was being discussed earlier. Talk to the person who brought it up, jesus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    Given the fact that you admit to unsub a few time during the last expansion, you implicitly agree that content patch are lackluster either in quantity, quality or diversity to keep you interested enough to justify a subscription. Is that correct?
    Nope. Not one bit. There's more content at higher quality than ever before. First time I unsubbed was because of how dailies and gating were implemented in 5.0 which led to instant burn out. The next time was shortly before Isle of Thunder was released and it was because I felt like playing some Steam games and I was working overtime. The most recent time I injured my arm and had limited movement which only allowed for minor controller based gaming (since I could keep my arm and wrists straightened while playing). There are many reasons why people unsubscribe. Trying to use that to support personal bias that content isn't enough is foolish.
    BAD WOLF

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by mehow2g View Post
    Who do you believe whats your personal opinion? to me the game basically hand feeds you if you stay online enough.
    My personal opinion isn't relevant and that's the point. Too many people state their personal opinion in the mistaken belief that its the only reason for sub declines.
    The point was, 2 people posted within a few posts of each other. One said too easy, the other said too hard. Both think that's the reason subs are declining.

    Irony is, they are both wrong. You can't take a game with millions of players and bake sub losses down to one sole factor.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    It's between "-s because I don't really see it as dying.
    A game dies if the company stops supporting it or the company goes bankrupt.

    I just think it's ironic that some people, not you, claim the developers are doing a bad job (proven by a subloss according to them) and then continue to say that Blizzard should learn from developers from game X (which lost more subs than WoW).

    I hope that clears things up.
    I must confess that I am still just as confused as before. I cannot think of any recent games that have been dropped or of any MMO companies that have gone bankrupt, as such this must mean that there have been no games that have died recently so, correct me if I am wrong, no game is "basically dead". I might be getting the wrong idea here but it does seem, awfully, like you apply different standards to other games than you do to WOW.

    To be honest I am not sure that losing millions of customers is an indication of doing a good job. No doubt there are passionate people at Blizzard who want to produce the best product they can and they continue to work hard but ultimately they are failed by people above who appear to be out of ideas and more focused on making money rather than delivering the best product possible. I think it is incredibly arrogant to say that Blizzard cannot learn from their competitors because a competitor is not as successful as Blizzard does not mean that they are incapable of coming up with good ideas. As an example wasn't looting multiple mobs originally from Rift?

    Oh, and what game has lost more subs than WOW?

    Not really, but thanks for taking the time to respond.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I must confess that I am still just as confused as before. I cannot think of any recent games that have been dropped or of any MMO companies that have gone bankrupt, as such this must mean that there have been no games that have died recently so, correct me if I am wrong, no game is "basically dead". I might be getting the wrong idea here but it does seem, awfully, like you apply different standards to other games than you do to WOW.

    To be honest I am not sure that losing millions of customers is an indication of doing a good job. No doubt there are passionate people at Blizzard who want to produce the best product they can and they continue to work hard but ultimately they are failed by people above who appear to be out of ideas and more focused on making money rather than delivering the best product possible. I think it is incredibly arrogant to say that Blizzard cannot learn from their competitors because a competitor is not as successful as Blizzard does not mean that they are incapable of coming up with good ideas. As an example wasn't looting multiple mobs originally from Rift?

    Oh, and what game has lost more subs than WOW?

    Not really, but thanks for taking the time to respond.
    Runescape. It had well over 100 million accounts back in like, 2010, 2012? And there were only like, 8 million of those actively playing, and it's likely less by now, because there are far better F2P MMOs out now (Neverwinter, for instance). Assuming Runescape is still going, it's not inconceivable to think that it has lost more subs than WoW.

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    Runescape. It had well over 100 million accounts back in like, 2010, 2012? And there were only like, 8 million of those actively playing, and it's likely less by now, because there are far better F2P MMOs out now (Neverwinter, for instance). Assuming Runescape is still going, it's not inconceivable to think that it has lost more subs than WoW.
    This^

    One big reason why the subscription numbers fall is mainly because of boredom with the game, or people feel as though they don't have time for it.

    It is why Blizzard has pushed for things to do other then dungeons, raiding, and PvP. Since I've played there's been, HM Dungeons/Raids, Scenarios, more BGs, more dungeons and raids, pet battles, arenas, rated BGs, and more. (I probably missed a few things.) It's the fact that people get bored of something they've been doing for years, even months. It's not crazy to think that in this day and age WoW, or any video game for that matter, can get old in how quickly we as people move to one thing to another to stimulate us.

    If you want a perfect example, although two completely different games, Call of Duty and Battlefield. Franchises that are the "big nasty" in the FPS market have hit the same wall WoW has, were people are just bored of the same old same old. Truly if you look at WoW closely we do pretty much the same thing every expansion. We fight a raid boss, don't stand in fire, kill some people in BGs, gear up, rinse repeat. Some people this is tedious and old.

    All in all I don't think Blizzard is stupid when it comes to doing what they're doing. Their target audience has always been the "average Joe", I mean this was the game that broke the ice for people to finally give an MMO a shot. (Trust me I played Star Wars Galaxies that game was intimating as hell in comparison to how WoW was back during Vanilla.)

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Hang on, a guy a couple of posts up attributes a lot of the decline to stuff being too hard. You're saying they are quitting because its become too easy?

    Seems everyone has their pet theory and its not based on the truth or logic, just their own pet peeves.
    It's a strange thing.. because people claim content to be easy.. yet fail consistently at it. Take a look at LFR, and LFG, both are really really easy.. to people who have done normal modes and heroic modes.. yet LFR seems to bring out the worst of the community, Blizzard made the game easier, and gave everyone in-game guide with everything you need to know about an encounter, yet people still can't figure out why they take damage when they stand in front of a boss and he casts a frontal cone attack.. Then you look at the other end of a spectrum.. Heroic modes are really difficult, as seen by the amount of people who have actually defeated them.

    Normal modes are still the same difficulty as they were in Wrath and Cata. Heroic modes are still the same difficulty as Wrath and Cata. All that's changed is that 2 additional modes have been introduced that are much easier.

    Another thing that seems to get at people is that everything is "hand fed" to players.. I don't really see a way of this changing.. LFR loot system doesn't discriminate, it just hands out loot if you won the internal roll. If they developed a way that players are penalised for failing at mechanics or for lack of activity then the opposite would be said, "Blizzard never gives us anything!".

    I just don't get why people are complaining if it's too easy or hard.. If it's too easy, do something harder? Try going from LRF to Flex, or Flex to Normal, or Normal to Heroic.
    If the game is too hard, try bettering yourself? Look at guides on how to play, how to spec, how to glyph, how to gem, enchant, and reforge your gear, learn your class/spec rotation, try to get gear upgrades so that your character is stronger.

  11. #571
    Deleted
    Each time I remember having no new gear models in S15 due to w/e reasons

    7. (World of Warcraft) Activision Blizzard $213.000.000,00 from microtransactions

    dayum life must be hard for them
    Last edited by mmoc4f448e7a9a; 2014-02-06 at 01:53 PM.

  12. #572
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Each time I remember having no new gear models in S15 due to w/e reasons

    7. (World of Warcraft) Activision Blizzard $213.000.000,00 from microtransactions

    dayum life must be hard for them
    why new models for s15? would delay wod more...

  13. #573
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DerGottLoL View Post
    why new models for s15? would delay wod more...
    I am paying my sub fee for a current content, not something I should/can buy later. Also, hireing an intern or two to make would not take much time off of WoD. This is pure laziness.

  14. #574
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    I am paying my sub fee for a current content, not something I should/can buy later. Also, hireing an intern or two to make would not take much time off of WoD. This is pure laziness.
    the game is not focused on PvP, more PvE, SsO is not a good raid... 50% just orgrimmar ...

    i want my content in WoD & i want WoD before summer, so fuck models on pvp gear the current pvp gear model is okay.

    just take a break for 2-3 months... like i do, i hate sso...

  15. #575
    The bottom line is, Blizzard is using WOW as a $$$ cow to fuel the development of other games. They will put just enough into WOW to keep people interested in WOW and nothing more.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2014-02-06 at 03:17 PM.

  16. #576
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    The bottom line is, Blizzard is using WOW as a $$$ cow to fuel the development of other games. They will put just enough into WOW to keep people interested in WOW and nothing more.
    go away troll/hater

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2014-02-06 at 03:17 PM.

  17. #577
    The Patient Reufio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerGottLoL View Post
    the game is not focused on PvP, more PvE, SsO is not a good raid... 50% just orgrimmar ...

    i want my content in WoD & i want WoD before summer, so fuck models on pvp gear the current pvp gear model is okay.

    just take a break for 2-3 months... like i do, i hate sso...
    What is SsO?

  18. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reufio View Post
    What is SsO?
    woops i mean SoO (Siege of Orgrimmar^^)

  19. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerGottLoL View Post
    woops i mean SoO (Siege of Orgrimmar^^)
    Lol, sorry I had to do it.

  20. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    The bottom line is, Blizzard is using WOW as a $$$ cow to fuel the development of other games. They will put just enough into WOW to keep people interested in WOW and nothing more.
    sad but very true

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