Death knights must not exist (Ironic Thread)

[Arberian]

1-They use Frost Magic( That the Mages use , and that can be easily incorporated into the Frost Mage spec allowing Frost Mages to carry heavy armor) , Dark Magic( Which Warlocks could use and that means that Warlocks can also raise the Dead) , Blood Magic ( Which Warlocks also use: Blood Horror) .
2- Death knights imbue the Weapons with Frost/Unholy Powers. Rogues can also imbue the weapons with Magic , the Shamans too.
3- Death Knights use Death Coil which is Similar to Mortal Coil.
4- the Frost Plague and Blood Plague can be easily incorporated into the Frost Mage spec and into the Affliction Spec.
5- Death pact is similar to Warlocks Sacrifical Pact.
6- They can dual wield---> Which Shamans , Rogues and Fury Warriors also do.
7- Runic Power is taken from the Imbued Blade and Shamans can imbue the Weapons too.
8- All their spells can be used by Warlocks and Mages.
9- All their Shadow Magic they use can also be used by Warlocks including Raise Dead.

Ironic Thread about the differences between Demon Hunters and Warlocks. The similarities i wrote above are the proof that Blizzard didnt care about the similarities between classes and that Blizzard created the Death Knight . The similarities didnt stop Blizzard from creating both Paladins and Priests. So guys any other ideas why Paladins and Death Knights must no exist ?!
Blizzard created new spells for the DKs and that can also be done also for the Demon Hunters.

Well, according to this (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=55532#abilities), a pre-Warlock-skull-eating Demon Hunter has the following abilites:

Darklance - a Shadow spell

Demon Rush - a physical ability that is descriptive rather than a demonic ability

Gift of Sargeras - the famous power blessed upon Illidan

Taunt - a Defensive Stance

Waters of Eternity - probably an Illidan only ability

So based on this, I think Blizzard sees Demon Hunters as a class to be thematically more like Spellswords or Magetank than Demons or Warlocks. They even set the stage thematically by mysteriously allowing Night Elves to be Mages; they could already be Rogues. Illidan was a Mage first right? Then he fought as a Demon Hunter, and then he became a Demon and everyone started confusing him for a Warlock.

You can make a three-spec class around this Spellsword/Magetank concept easily with melee and tanking trees, and possibly could be expanded to included a ranged tree with some creative vision.

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LOL. I guess I shouldn't be arguing that's what DHs are then huh? :P

One crucial point behind the popularity of WoW, often forgotten, is, in my oppinion, the way the game allows us to live our Warcraft fantasy in an expansive and breathing world.

WoW provided a away for the legion of Warcraft RTS games fans a way of playing as one those units they had controlled in the previous games of the franchise. More importantly, it gave them a way of playing as one of those Heroic units they had controlled in the previous games.

Your fantasy of being a Turalyon or an Uther? Fulfilled through the Paladin class. A Lothar or a Doomhammer? The Warrior. Guldan? Malfurion? Thrall? Rexxar? Vol'jin? Jaina or Khadgar? Tyrande? Or even one unit not affiliated with any hero such as the Priest, the Shaman, or the Witch doctor.

All of those, you could play the equivalent of them in game. And that was simply amazing. Even if the corresponding class might not be a full copy of those units. The feeling was there.

Of course, not all of our beloved heroes were available. Arthas? Had to wait till WOTLK. Chen? Till MOP. And Illidan? Still waiting.

This is why, even though I recognize that there's very little room for it, that I believe that an incarnation of the Demon Hunter must be made available in game. The possibility of playing as an Illidan is simply essential to the fulfillment of WOW's promise.

You might say the Warlock already fulfills it. It does not. Give that class a melee spec and unlock it for Night Elves and I might accept that. But at the momment? It most certanly does not.

You might also say that wanting to play as an Illidan is simply being a fanboy, and that's not a good argument to be used when it comes to creating a class.

NONSENSE, I say! That's the whole point of this game! Allowing us, Warcraft fanboys, to live out our Warcraft fantasies!

I trust Blizzard to find a way to implement such a class in an interesting way. After what they did with the Monk class and Pandaria, I know they would do a great job.

It might not even be called Demon Hunter, the same way that the Monk isn't called Brewmaster, but I still hope that the promise will, someday, be fulfilled.

[-Superman-]

DeathKnights already existed in WC3. Demon hunters exist in TBC. Maybe someday. But, this will likely never happen without another BL expansion.

[Arberian]

DeathKnights already existed in WC3. Demon hunters exist in Diablo. Diablo is not in the Warcraft Universe. Pretty basic logic.

Demon Hunters exist in WC3 Universe.

[Darsithis]

Death Knights existed before Demon Hunters

[Edoran]

Didn't Death Knights exist in WCII, even before WCIII?

[Arberian]

Death Knights existed before Demon Hunters

That means nothing!

[Aydinx2]

Death Knights do share a load of class ideas with other classes, but the combination and style of these is new.
It's like saying a Paladin shouldn't exist because you already have Warriors and Priests, and pallies are merely a combination of the 2.

[-Superman-]

Demon Hunters exist in WC3 Universe.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Demon_hunter

Yep, looks like they worked for the Legion. You know what else worked for the legion? Draenei warlocks called Eredar. Guess how soon we are getting Draenei locks?

[FuzzyPanda]

Someone missed the point with others arguments, it's not that demon hunters share the same magic type hell if you wanna go that far the only caster class would be mage and druid. It's that some of there most iconic abilities have already been given to other class i.e. death coil, fear, metamorphosis, etc.

[-Superman-]

Death Knights do share a load of class ideas with other classes, but the combination and style of these is new.
It's like saying a Paladin shouldn't exist because you already have Warriors and Priests, and pallies are merely a combination of the 2.

Agreed, plus, the premise of the DK was a fallen hero (some other class) who has been risen again to work for the LK. Technically, a Frost DK was a Frost Mage before he was killed. An Unholy DK was a warlock in his last life, and a Blood DK likely a straight up warrior or paladin. Possibly even a Druid (all them self heals). DKs make sense. A race that worked for the Burning Legion, really not much sense.

Then again, I am not a stickler to Lore, so if you can convince Blizz... more power to you.

[Raic]

Didn't Death Knights exist in WCII, even before WCIII?

I was wondering this too, weren't the first Death Knights similar to warlocks?

[Darsithis]

I was wondering this too, weren't the first Death Knights similar to warlocks?

We were. The DK's in WC3 aren't quite like the original death knights that were counterparts to the mages for the Alliance.

[Edoran]

I was wondering this too, weren't the first Death Knights similar to warlocks?

Yep. I don't think it's unreasonable to think the majority of the player base didn't start playing the Warcraft series until at least WCIII though, hence most of the confusion and argument that is always popping up over this topic.

A demon hunter could very easily work in WoW, but it would need something new and fresh to make it stand out from the classes it is pretty similar to. They did it with DKs though, so who knows.

[Deleted]

Death Knights existed before Demon Hunters

Demon Hunters are from War of Ancients
Death Knight are from 2nd War :S

[Teriz]

1-They use Frost Magic( That the Mages use , and that can be easily incorporated into the Frost Mage spec allowing Frost Mages to carry heavy armor) , Dark Magic( Which Warlocks could use and that means that Warlocks can also raise the Dead) , Blood Magic ( Which Warlocks also use: Blood Horror) .
2- Death knights imbue the Weapons with Frost/Unholy Powers. Rogues can also imbue the weapons with Magic , the Shamans too.
3- Death Knights use Death Coil which is Similar to Mortal Coil.
4- the Frost Plague and Blood Plague can be easily incorporated into the Frost Mage spec and into the Affliction Spec.
5- Death pact is similar to Warlocks Sacrifical Pact.
6- They can dual wield---> Which Shamans , Rogues and Fury Warriors also do.
7- Runic Power is taken from the Imbued Blade and Shamans can imbue the Weapons too.
8- All their spells can be used by Warlocks and Mages.
9- All their Shadow Magic they use can also be used by Warlocks including Raise Dead.

You clearly have no idea about class themes or mechanics.

1.DK frost magic is based on Lich frost magic. I.E. Frost magic that is linked to the undead. The disease aspect comes from Death and Decay. Mage Frost magic is derived from the Water element, and is the offensive side of the water element. The restorative element is covered by Shaman.

2. DKs imbue weapons via a forge. Rogues imbue via Shadow magic. Shaman imbue via Elemental magic.

3. Death Coil heals the undead and damages the living. Mortal Coil is a fear spell. Not the same thing.

4. No they can't. Mages don't deal with disease or undeath. That is a DK theme that comes from Lichs and Necromancy.

5. No its not. Sacrificial Pact doesn't kill the demon. Sacrificial pact doesn't heal the Warlock.

6. And numerous classes can 1h with shield, 1h, use 2hs, etc. I'm not seeing the point with mentioning that.

7. Runic Power is taken from a primitive form of arcane magic that is common in Northrend. It comes from DKs wielding Runeblades in WC3.

8.Where's the raise dead Warlock and Mage spell?

9. Necromancy and Demonology are two very different schools of magic.

In short, Death Knights work because they filled the Undead or Necromancy theme. No other class shares that theme with Death Knights, so they have a place in the WoW class lineup.

Ironic Thread about the differences between Demon Hunters and Warlocks. The similarities i wrote above are the proof that Blizzard didnt care about the similarities between classes and that Blizzard created the Death Knight . The similarities didnt stop Blizzard from creating both Paladins and Priests. So guys any other ideas why Paladins and Death Knights must no exist ?!
Blizzard created new spells for the DKs and that can also be done also for the Demon Hunters.

Except those "similarities" you mentioned above pale in comparison to the similarities between Warlocks and Demon Hunters.

[Avada Kedavra]

You clearly have no idea about class themes or mechanics.

1.DK frost magic is based on Lich frost magic. I.E. Frost magic that is linked to the undead. The disease aspect comes from Death and Decay. Mage Frost magic is derived from the Water element, and is the offensive side of the water element. The restorative element is covered by Shaman.

2. DKs imbue weapons via a forge. Rogues imbue via Shadow magic. Shaman imbue via Elemental magic.

3. Death Coil heals the undead and damages the living. Mortal Coil is a fear spell. Not the same thing.

4. No they can't. Mages don't deal with disease or undeath. That is a DK theme that comes from Lichs and Necromancy.

5. No its not. Sacrificial Pact doesn't kill the demon. Sacrificial pact doesn't heal the Warlock.

6. And numerous classes can 1h with shield, 1h, use 2hs, etc. I'm not seeing the point with mentioning that.

7. Runic Power is taken from a primitive form of arcane magic that is common in Northrend. It comes from DKs wielding Runeblades in WC3.

8.Where's the raise dead Warlock and Mage spell?

9. Necromancy and Demonology are two very different schools of magic.

In short, Death Knights work because they filled the Undead or Necromancy theme. No other class shares that theme with Death Knights, so they have a place in the WoW class lineup.



Except those "similarities" you mentioned above pale in comparison to the similarities between Warlocks and Demon Hunters.

/thread imo - seems you have shattered the OP already shaky premise.

[leaks]

I'm amazed people are still having this argument.

[Kotori125]

Well, warlocks aren't necromancers, meaning they deal with demonic stuff rather than, well, necromancy.
Both dk's and warlocks had 'Death Coil', only warlocks got turned into mortal coil.
Death pact was here before sacrificial pack, *unless you count sacrificing your big-blue-bubble's health, though that is the bubble's ability.
Poison isn't magic.
If only warlocks, especially affliction, could use Pestilence... or even shadow priest as they at least use a disease.

Plus this v

Agreed, plus, the premise of the DK was a fallen hero (some other class) who has been risen again to work for the LK. Technically, a Frost DK was a Frost Mage before he was killed. An Unholy DK was a warlock in his last life, and a Blood DK likely a straight up warrior or paladin. Possibly even a Druid (all them self heals). DKs make sense.

Because if you remember, when dk's were first introduced into wow, they replaced a level 55 or higher character. But that got taken away (obviously).

And comparing DK abilities to what everyone has now, rather than what everyone had in WotLK. Such as all warriors able to dual wield, no *sacrificial pact , no blood horror, etc. Because technically, it can be argued that other classes based their new abilities off of DK abilities.

[Cerilis]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Demon_hunter

Yep, looks like they worked for the Legion. You know who doesn't work for the legion? Eredar exiles called Draenei. Guess how soon we are getting Draenei locks?

Fixed this for you.

[Arberian]

You clearly have no idea about class themes or mechanics.

1.DK frost magic is based on Lich frost magic. I.E. Frost magic that is linked to the undead. The disease aspect comes from Death and Decay. Mage Frost magic is derived from the Water element, and is the offensive side of the water element. The restorative element is covered by Shaman.

2. DKs imbue weapons via a forge. Rogues imbue via Shadow magic. Shaman imbue via Elemental magic.

3. Death Coil heals the undead and damages the living. Mortal Coil is a fear spell. Not the same thing.

4. No they can't. Mages don't deal with disease or undeath. That is a DK theme that comes from Lichs and Necromancy.

5. No its not. Sacrificial Pact doesn't kill the demon. Sacrificial pact doesn't heal the Warlock.

6. And numerous classes can 1h with shield, 1h, use 2hs, etc. I'm not seeing the point with mentioning that.

7. Runic Power is taken from a primitive form of arcane magic that is common in Northrend. It comes from DKs wielding Runeblades in WC3.

8.Where's the raise dead Warlock and Mage spell?

9. Necromancy and Demonology are two very different schools of magic.

In short, Death Knights work because they filled the Undead or Necromancy theme. No other class shares that theme with Death Knights, so they have a place in the WoW class lineup.



Except those "similarities" you mentioned above pale in comparison to the similarities between Warlocks and Demon Hunters.

You always see the spells as you want to see them. Read again what did you wrote for the both coils. So im telling you that DH's Immolate burns nearby enemies 1-3 yards maximum and the Warlocks Immolate burns enemies within 8 yards. Im trying to explain you the differences of the warlocks and Demon Hunters. o other class shares the theme the Demon Hunters have. Read WoWiki and you will understand the differences about Demon Hunters and the Warlocks!