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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by sith View Post
    Pet battling is a "minigame". PvP is half of the core game.
    I know players that devote thier entire time playing wow to pet battles. Collecting, leveling, pvp pet battling, the game is what you make of it and no aspect of the game in general should be referred to as a "minigame". Different strokes for different folks.

    I play both PVE and PVP with my warrior, the changes to disrupting shout are a slight annoyance on the PVE side while bieng a much larger annoyance in Arena. IMO this strikes a good balance. I don't believe there should be any modification to the current implementation. It was an obvious assumption that warrior interupts were broken in both aspects of the game and changes were made to fix both.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Kae View Post
    You meant shockwave, right?
    Yeah, I've edited my post, thanks.

  3. #163
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Separating of PvE and PvP is a change that every PvP player I know would welcome, but Blizzard said plenty of times that they won't do it, because it would be too confusing to "casuals".
    100% no go, I don't want this game to split into two individual games with exclusive rule sets. That's not what an MMO should be about. Keep immersion intact, it's already severly damaged anyway. I don't want my sword to do different things to a NPC Orc than it does to a player Orc. That just doesn't make sense at all.

    Blizzard can't even explain what resilience is, from an in-game perspective. It's just there, but the creatures of this world can't explain what it is and where it comes from. Resilience has no lore. They are just too lazy or incapable to build a seamless world which does not require such extra rules, though on the other hand, the majority of the playerbase seems to be fine with such weird things.

  4. #164
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XMD View Post
    100% no go, I don't want this game to split into two individual games with exclusive rule sets. That's not what an MMO should be about. Keep immersion intact, it's already severly damaged anyway. I don't want my sword to do different things to a NPC Orc than it does to a player Orc. That just doesn't make sense at all.

    Blizzard can't even explain what resilience is, from an in-game perspective. It's just there, but the creatures of this world can't explain what it is and where it comes from. Resilience has no lore. They are just too lazy or incapable to build a seamless world which does not require such extra rules, though on the other hand, the majority of the playerbase seems to be fine with such weird things.
    Can you explain the UI in the ingame world? Can you explain the numbers coming out? Can you explain the loading screens? I get you don't want different rule sets but this is getting asinine.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  5. #165
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deztru View Post
    Now clearly having a warrior in raids with double interrupt is only a minor utility, but in PvP having double interrupt is a little too powerful. Nerfing PvP and affecting PvE once again. Disrupting Shout no longer has a part in SoO except in Garrosh, this tier now has 1 talent for 1 fight in PvE and everything else is useless.
    I'm sure they'll do the same thing to the double-interrupts all DKs have in the form of Mind Freeze and Strangulate/Asphyxiate. You know, those 30-yard ranged interrupts/silences? I know they're not AoE, but it's still a double-interrupt.

    Oh wait...no. No, they won't do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deztru View Post
    Speaking on behalf on all classes, I'm really getting fed up with PvP nerfs affecting PvE
    Right there with you.

  6. #166
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    I honestly don't understand why this thread is going as long as it has. It is a pain in the rear end that this change is removing the viability of two interrupts like this for PvE, but it's not a HUGE deal. It's a minor inconvenience at most and it still isn't for sure going to be implemented in the live version. Mind you I don't like it personally, but it's not going to cost me a spot in my raid. Just some reworking on interrupt duty.

    Just kick back and wait and see what is done. They might even revert it like they did for Charge.
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  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakesterwars View Post
    I honestly don't understand why this thread is going as long as it has. It is a pain in the rear end that this change is removing the viability of two interrupts like this for PvE, but it's not a HUGE deal. It's a minor inconvenience at most and it still isn't for sure going to be implemented in the live version. Mind you I don't like it personally, but it's not going to cost me a spot in my raid. Just some reworking on interrupt duty.

    Just kick back and wait and see what is done. They might even revert it like they did for Charge.
    Because half the people just want to argue, and the other half ask the same questions that were already asked, because they can't be bothered to read the thread.

    To the above. It doesn't matter why they don't seperate PvE and PvP into distinct classes or specs. The simple answer is they don't want to. It has been brought up before and been shot down.

    It simply isn't their aim, regardless of how many people think it is or isn't a good idea.

  8. #168
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deztru View Post
    The 40 second cooldown of Disrupting Shout remains unchanged, but Pummel and Disrupting Shout now share a 15 second cooldown.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Blizzard-Gear

    Now clearly having a warrior in raids with double interrupt is only a minor utility, but in PvP having double interrupt is a little too powerful. Nerfing PvP and affecting PvE once again. Disrupting Shout no longer has a part in SoO except in Garrosh, this tier now has 1 talent for 1 fight in PvE and everything else is useless.

    Speaking on behalf on all classes, I'm really getting fed up with PvP nerfs affecting PvE
    maybe if the wow community stoped whining about warriors thinking there op when there not it would help, just cos us warriors are not free kills in pvp anymore you think we are OP seriously kids in this game nowadays there are way more classes op than warriors.

    monk healers there just stupid op its hard to kill them even with 4 people if they know how to play and then you have the mass cc of a mage any good mage can cc a warrior t odeath without him getting near you and what about hunters instant shots great control and cc aswell from pet and talents, i think the wow community needs to look at other classes cos warriors are not OP they are balanced and dnt say i lost to one in a duel cos blizzard base pvp balance on 3v3 arena which is the most fair and blanced pvp there is anything else is not balanced

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Shapeduz View Post
    If some of those cranky PVE ppl only had just a little clue how much the PVE changes change the PVP scen. Like this one, this change wont make Garrosh unkillable will it?
    But if u played a few arena matches u wud know a change like this is a step in the right direction to bring cc down to a playable and enjoyable level.
    Its not like they are gimping ur dps, or making u worthless, which they tend to do with 1 or more classes every season in PVP which is very frustrating...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Playing a warrior i can tell u that yes they are a bit too strong, the massive amount of dmg and the ability to stay on a target is a bit too much right now.
    And u probably have trouble killing monk healers cos u simply dont know how too, im not saying its easy, but if u cant bring em down even with 4 ppl then its just a l2p issue.
    I love ppl like you, you come screaming OP because you can not deal with a certain class/mechanic, but when someone else complains about how a class is op you slap the l2p sticker. If as so many like you are right that warrior are OP, the one class that rules in arenas atm, plz explain the results of Blizzcon. Saying Blizzcon since its the most recent bigger tournament i can recall that was played on 5.4.

    And the "its to low sample", "They are trained teams" or "insert random excuse" wont explain it, tbh you cant explain it, because warriors are not as op as many think, its just the current blame it for loss in arena class.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Shapeduz View Post
    Did u even read my post? i didnt say i had any problems with something being OP, i even play a warrior and i think the change was needed. I said warriors are bit too strong not that they are out of control OP. And if u play pvp u wud know warriors are a lil bit too strong, otherwise u are just blind.
    I shortened your "they are a bit too strong, the massive amount of dmg and the ability to stay on a target is a bit too much right now." with the OP, so my bad if you didnt plan on saying they are op with that part. Still, my question stands, if warriors are "a bit too strong, the massive amount of dmg and the ability to stay on a target is a bit too much right now." how come the comps of Blizzcon tournament and the end results didnt show that.

    They are professional players, who would make use of something like that, so why didnt they. Tbh if i rememeber correct, in semifinals or even finals, one team switched to a warrior and lost even harder, then without the warrior.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Shapeduz View Post
    Again im not saying they are that op, but if u look at the ladders, i play on eu, warriors are the most represented dps by far. And that shud be some sort of hint, not saying that it mean they are op but that they are rly rly good
    Maybe i just dont see it, but when i look at

    http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/3v3/

    I just dont see warrior sticking so much out in top 50.

    If i put Lock/Make/Rogue/Warrior/DK/Hunter in top 50 there is 12 warriors, 6 DK, 8 Hunters, 8 Mages, 12 Rogues, 4 Locks. Yes, they are not least represented, but they are not over the top represented.

    Edit:

    top 100 - DK 10, Hunter 22, Mage 15, Rogue 22, Lock 6, Warrior 25.
    Last edited by Itakas; 2014-02-07 at 10:48 AM.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Shapeduz View Post
    If some of those cranky PVE ppl only had just a little clue how much the PVE changes change the PVP scen. Like this one, this change wont make Garrosh unkillable will it?
    I actually have had a garrosh kill that wouldn't have been possible with disrupting shout in its current iteration. Was it because of a raid wide failure of interrupts and stacking? Yes. The fact remains though, we finished Garrosh off with me and the healer alive only because I was able to AOE interrupt long enough at 1% to execute my way to victory. Rather than supporting a reversion of the change or having the nerf effect pvp while not effecting pve, I think this is a prime example of why the change was neccessary for both aspects of the game. The ability to chain interrupts in PVP was too much (especially with an aoe interrupt), and a mass failure of a raid team should result in a one percent wipe, not a kill that was attainable through having the ability to aoe kick even after I had just used pummel.

  13. #173
    Deleted
    My god, people, what is WRONG with you? Someone mentions PvE and PvP in the same sentence and the brawl begins, honestly it's hilarious ^^

    Well, on topic: I feel like the WoW balancing department seemed off for a long time now. Compared to like David Kim and his guys at Starcraft II or even the people involved in Hearthstone, whose decisions I almost always am able to at least understand, the guys handling balance in WoW seem to have problems in speed and communication among themselves...

    PvP affecting PvE and vice versa exists because they fear spells might get too complicated and classes are getting too hard to learn for new players when they have two components. I think this isjust a bad idea... even if so, nobody would blame WoW at it's current state for going too hard on new players. Most of them are bored out of their subscription before they reach max level anyhow.

  14. #174
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    So what? Especially that we are at the end of an expansion, how is this a real problem?
    Pretty sure he has a problem with the philosophy of this... just as I do. I do not like an aspect of the game I have 0 interest in changing part of the game I do exclusively, when it is not needed in my 'area'.
    The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.

  15. #175
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Itakas View Post
    Maybe i just dont see it, but when i look at

    http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/3v3/

    I just dont see warrior sticking so much out in top 50.

    If i put Lock/Make/Rogue/Warrior/DK/Hunter in top 50 there is 12 warriors, 6 DK, 8 Hunters, 8 Mages, 12 Rogues, 4 Locks. Yes, they are not least represented, but they are not over the top represented.

    Edit:

    top 100 - DK 10, Hunter 22, Mage 15, Rogue 22, Lock 6, Warrior 25.
    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-2-0.html

  16. #176
    Epic! Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    I've been saying that for the entire game.

    "Once again PVE changes gimp PVP"

    All of those buffs to hunter damage this patch made them extremely dominant in PVP.

    You PVErs aren't special snowflakes, the game does not revolve around you.

    PVP has been miserable for this entire expansion so that mindless button mashers can have perfect DPS balance to stroke their epeens to.

    SOO has been out for long enough for people to have had their time with it.

    Now it's our time. The last season of the expansion, and I expect it to be decent.

  17. #177
    Banned Rorke's Avatar
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    This is actually a case of "Pve screwed Pve" and not what's actually being stated in this thread. I'll explain.

    If they just left Arms alone and didn't buff Slam/Mortal Strike/Seasoned Soldier/Deep Wounds Blizzard would never have nerfed Warrior utility. Warriors were absolute dogshit in 5.3 but of course Blizzard buffed Arms Warrior damage because I guess that 5 Arms Warriors that competitively raid were mad that the spec was shit. So inevitably Warriors became Overpowered in PvP because the only time Warriors are overpowered in PvP is when their damage is out of control and effortless.

    And that is why they need to take down Warrior utility because of their damage that never needed a buff. Nobody plays or likes Arms in pve. They should've literally fucking ignored it but they didn't and now I have to deal with all of these retards clamering about how "Warriors have more control than Rogues." It's utter nonsense.

    All of these complaints about Warrior mobility/survivability/control would literally go away if they reverted every single Arms damage buff. Hell they could keep the Slam buff but remove everything else and the complaints would still go away.

    People need to get through their thick fucking skulls that the difference between the 5.3 and 5.4 warrior mobility/control wise is almost nothing other than the shield Wall/reflect change and hamstring change. Yes, Warriors actually had a 12 second charge, 30 second heroic leap, a fear, two interrupts, 25 second reflect, a stun in 5.3 when they were dogshit. I know this is a hard concept to grasp for some people but the Warrior toolkit is absolute shit compared to any other class other than probably DK.

  18. #178
    I really have to agree with Ryan on that PvE buff screwing over the utility. Tried to explain to my guildmate few months back that the "Warrior OP" issues were really only there because of buffed raw damage to PvE side, making other classes harder time to ignore that wet noodle warrior hitting your healers. You can have some CC or damage, but if you have enough of both it is going to feel unfair for some people.

    However I don't agree on the part that damage is out of control. I still think Arms is still underperforming on PvE and would need hard SCALING FIXES - didn't really need these raw buffs (except the AoE part). Hell, everyone said that Arms was bad even on 1st tier on MoP, but I still can remember topping our raidgroup meters very frequently on every boss. On 2nd tier already showed that Arms was nerfed into oblivion, by removing that Heroic strike stacker and everyone was forced to switch into Fury for the rest of the tier/expansion. "It's going to be a buff for PvE" my ass.

    So then... the 3rd tier came up and they buffed it up again. I was a bit happier than before, but still wasn't convinced. I could see that it would cause problems on PvP and not fix BiS damage disparity between Arms and the other specs. Because of that lazyness we're now paying the price.

    Funny thing is: they don't have to nerf the damage on next season, because of the increased Ilvl. Arms warriors are going to fall behind on damage vs. other specs. So tuning these changes and making it effectively only a PvE nerf actually feels out of place. I'm guessing they're getting hit hard on PvP complains about warriors and have to do something, but they cannot convince that the ilvl increase would actually fix the issue.

    But I guess time will tell how it will look like again.
    Last edited by Kankipappa; 2014-02-10 at 01:35 AM.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    This is actually a case of "Pve screwed Pve" and not what's actually being stated in this thread. I'll explain.

    If they just left Arms alone and didn't buff Slam/Mortal Strike/Seasoned Soldier/Deep Wounds Blizzard would never have nerfed Warrior utility. Warriors were absolute dogshit in 5.3 but of course Blizzard buffed Arms Warrior damage because I guess that 5 Arms Warriors that competitively raid were mad that the spec was shit. So inevitably Warriors became Overpowered in PvP because the only time Warriors are overpowered in PvP is when their damage is out of control and effortless.

    And that is why they need to take down Warrior utility because of their damage that never needed a buff. Nobody plays or likes Arms in pve. They should've literally fucking ignored it but they didn't and now I have to deal with all of these retards clamering about how "Warriors have more control than Rogues." It's utter nonsense.

    All of these complaints about Warrior mobility/survivability/control would literally go away if they reverted every single Arms damage buff. Hell they could keep the Slam buff but remove everything else and the complaints would still go away.

    People need to get through their thick fucking skulls that the difference between the 5.3 and 5.4 warrior mobility/control wise is almost nothing other than the shield Wall/reflect change and hamstring change. Yes, Warriors actually had a 12 second charge, 30 second heroic leap, a fear, two interrupts, 25 second reflect, a stun in 5.3 when they were dogshit. I know this is a hard concept to grasp for some people but the Warrior toolkit is absolute shit compared to any other class other than probably DK.
    if you don't see the problem with warriors having charge stun+shockwave+storm bolt+pummel+disrupting shout+reflect+mass spell reflect AND root/snare breaking intervene all available to use at the same time on short cooldowns, you're being unreasonable.

    we don't need to be able to lock shit down for 37 years. we need to do high damage so people can't sit there and tank us and we have to use 14 spells in a row used in a perfect combo to be able to take them down.

    additionally, if they reverted the damage buffs we would be just as shitty as we were in the last season because even with all our cc there would be no threat of ever dying with terrible damage.

    they need to remove some cc and let us crush people when we're fortunate enough to be in melee range with them.

    we need to be a high damage class with some amount of durability and some amount of control.

    before the ds nerf (AKA right now) we were a high damage class with super high control and pretty damn good durability.

    i'd rather keep the damage than the retarded stunlock pre diminishing returns rogue endless cc train.

  20. #180
    Banned Rorke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kankipappa View Post
    I really have to agree with Ryan on that PvE buff screwing over the utility. Tried to explain to my guildmate few months back that the "Warrior OP" issues were really only there because of buffed raw damage to PvE side, making other classes harder time to ignore that wet noodle warrior hitting your healers. You can have some CC or damage, but if you have enough of both it is going to feel unfair for some people.

    However I don't agree on the part that damage is out of control. I still think Arms is still underperforming on PvE and would need hard SCALING FIXES - didn't really need these raw buffs (except the AoE part). Hell, everyone said that Arms was bad even on 1st tier on MoP, but I still can remember topping our raidgroup meters very frequently on every boss. On 2nd tier already showed that Arms was nerfed into oblivion, by removing that Heroic strike stacker and everyone was forced to switch into Fury for the rest of the tier/expansion. "It's going to be a buff for PvE" my ass.
    When I said that Arms damage is out of control, I mean pvp wise, not pve wise. I'll be completely honest, I don't care about pve. This is why I'm biased towards nerfing Arms Warrior damage to keep its utility/mobility/control. I just don't understand why people play Arms in Raids when Fury is almost always better and supposedly from all of the raid heroes, Fury has a much higher skill cap than Arms.

    Aside from me being an idiot and actually addressing your post, I don't think you can really fix Arms Warrior scaling with the way the spec is designed and how rage works now. Seasoned Soldier is the reason Arms scaling is so bad because it's basically a passive ability that says "You're scaling is effected by your weapon." This is why Frost DK's scale so shitty with gear too. Specs like Sub Rogues/unholy dk's have stuff like Sinister calling/unholy might, actual passives that effect primary stats.

    Basically Arms and Frost DK's are throttled to however hard their abilities hit because of their passives and do the best at lesser gear levles when compared to other specs. But they pay a heavy price for that damage wise with BiS gear when compared to other specs. This is why they buffed Slam and MS because they can't really fix the specs scaling issues without redesigning the spec completely. And I personally think Blizzard is completely okay with this.

    This is why I just can't understand why anyone would want to seriously raid with the Arms spec after understanding this. I'm not completely against buffing Arms damage but I still believe they went to far with it that it ruined pvp balance. They could've kept the Slam buff and the seasoned soldier buff, but the MS and deep wounds buff was unnecessary. And unfortunately that would mean Arms warriors like you who raid would be screwed even more.

    There's basically no real way that both parties win. Blizzard sided with you but you still don't get to win because Arms still sucks at high end raiding because of how the spec is designed. And this is why I feel as though Blizzard sometimes doesn't even understand their own game.

    Funny thing is: they don't have to nerf the damage on next season, because of the increased Ilvl. Arms warriors are going to fall behind on damage vs. other specs. So tuning these changes and making it effectively only a PvE nerf actually feels out of place. I'm guessing they're getting hit hard on PvP complains about warriors and have to do something, but they cannot convince that the ilvl increase would actually fix the issue.
    I don't want them to nerf damage because I know they won't. You're correct that Arms is going to fall behind with the higher pvp item level, so I'm assuming Arms is going to be back to 5.3 status because it just simply cannot compete with other melee in a competitive setting when its damage is lower or on par with them. That is why I feel these Warrior utility nerfs are somewhat unnecessary considering Sub Rogues already have a superior tool kit and are now going to deal even more damage than Warriors with the higher item level.

    If they don't seriously nerf the Rogue tool kit before the next season, Warriors are going back to 5.3 pvp status. I can bet anyone on that.

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