5 months since the release of Siege of Ogrimmar..

[Schmilblick]

You can cancel your subscription until WoD/beta if you'd like.

This.
/10chars.

[Pua]

You should know that I read the rest of your post, but what you're trying to say doesn't match your actual words so I'm going to use this bit of misunderstanding to show you why you are doing what I called you out on.

"Called me out on"? Why are you so determined to have an argument? I'm honestly curious. What I've done is try to elaborate on why boiling debates down to extremes is unhelpful, and my last post included some commentary on specifically why it was unnecessary in this topic.

Which sections are you misunderstanding?

The person you quoted never said that people are asking the product to be rushed and full of bugs. That's idiotic.

I think you need to read the post he quoted, and then reconvene with my original response. Honestly, what I'm saying (and what he implied) is pretty clear and nobody else seems to have misconstrued it as yet. Again, I just get the feeling you're looking for an argument and I can't figure out what you think you're going to gain from it.

So then I have to wonder why you would even need to mention it unless you are trying to avoid the actual meaning of the first person you quoted. That is to say, people who are vocally complaining that it is taking too long will likely be the same people complaining about anything that could be attributed to a rushed product. It's such a simple point to understand, I really wonder why you keep taking it to an extreme (and making up things that no one is saying) to avoid admitting the simple truth. People complaining now would complain if it was made faster and as a result negative consequences occurred.

Please just take a quick look at what you're saying here.

"Taking it to an extreme".
"Avoid admitting the simple truth".

This is such combative language, and it's not even portrayed accurately in comparison to what I've said. It would appear you've slightly misunderstood something, then decided that you need to go down all guns blazing regardless. I'm not trying to fight with you, I'm trying to mediate in order to better (and more clearly) communicate what I'm saying. Hell, I've already stated that we're in agreement over the complaints of malcontents and that we're unlikely to ever see them subside, so your approach to this discussion is utterly baffling. That's the "simple truth" you're referring to, and I already agreed with it... In the post you quoted most recently. Additionally, any dispersion cast at me for taking the discussion to the extreme, when I was the individual who wanted to guard against doing so, is just a bit muddled on your part.

The individual I first quoted on this thread stated, very clearly, that a poster who suggested that we should be concerned about no new content for 9-12 months would be the first to complain if content was released broken. It didn't engage with what said poster may have been implying, it simply jumped to a conclusion based on two sides of the spectrum; because the quoted poster didn't view something one way, he must surely have viewed it another. This is unfair. This is also why I stepped in to promote a less extreme approach, as it's unhelpful to dismiss someone's view when you've not actually engaged with why someone may have said what they did in the first place.

Additionally, the people complaining now will likely still complain whenever it is released for the same things.

So with the fact that you don't have to continue paying a subscription until the expansion is released and the likely event that people are never satisfied, I am left to conclude you are simply trying to harp from a lofty aerie about how bad Blizzard is.

Again, you're boiling everything down to extremes of simple logic when most every debate on these forums is substantially more complex. I'm arguing against using extremes to further a discussion, so I must by harping about how bad Blizzard is? I'm sorry, but your implication just doesn't make one iota of sense. We're at the point where you've now invested in the argument and are hoping your combative approach is somehow a substitute for sound reasoning. If you examine what I said in my last post, you'll note that I discussed why Greg Street may have said the designers were further along with the development of WoD than they were with MoP and then discussed what he may have meant when he said it.

Does that strike you as Blizzard-hating or baiting? Giving the company the benefit of the doubt? I even referenced the substantial art work going into garrisons, new models and the rest of the usual expansion content in order to compound the fact that I'm not being critical.

Honestly, it appears as if you've made a judgement on me (perhaps fairly from other threads) and then not bothered to engage with what I've said because you're presupposing what my opinion must be.

This, also, is unhelpful in a discussion.

Instead of conceding that people are going to complain whether they go fast or slow and learning the easy life lesson that patience is a virtue. The game will come out when it's done. Until then no one is being forced to do anything but wait. If waiting is too good for you or any others, you have a lot of growing as a human being to do and certainly a subscription you could cancel. But by all means, continue being derisive and condescending as if it will somehow make you right. In the end it just serves to prove my point.

Just to properly convey my reaction to this paragraph, you should know that I'm chuckling and shaking my head. If waiting is too good for me I have a lot of growing to do as a human being? What? These are just irrelevant personal barbs you're throwing around and hoping to get some traction with, for reasons I just can't fathom. They're also pretty ignorant when you consider that my very first response to you stated that of course people could unsubscribe if they were unhappy.

As for being derisive and condescending, I apologise if that's how I'm coming across. I daresay your language has been far more provocative throughout this intercession, but that's for others to decide upon. This isn't really a question of me being right and you being wrong, I think you've just made a hasty judgement and then been determined to foster an argument ever since. In future, I'd recommend reading what I've written and then inquiring what I mean if any of it is unclear or disagreeable to you.

That said, I don't blame you. This is the Internet, and it's reasonable for you to expect certain behaviour; especially considering my post history.

All I ask is that you are not so quick to judge in the future.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I tend to wonder how much less complaining there would have been about LFR if they had release it 1 raid wing behind normal/heroic mode? One of their main reasons for not doing this was because they felt there wouldn't be enough time at the end of MoP to release the last wing of LFR before the start of the next expansion. Oh the irony.

Using lfr as a catchup mechanic rather than a way to see the ending in 1 week would go a long way to reducing player fatigue with raids.

[zolok2.0]

I'm predicting that the beta will be out by the end of Feb (maybe even next week) and WoD will be out before the end of April.

[quras]

No, it doesn't concern me. WoD won't be released until at least September-October. Why do people fall for time and time again when Blizzard says that they are releasing faster expansions.

Because it's a fantastic sales pitch.

Gamers want to believe it but the truth is it will never happen. At some point you would think gamers would realize this and that blizzard is just stringing them along expecting you to keep paying your sub for no new content.

Sadly, not enough gamers stop paying so blizzard gets the idea this is unacceptable. Even if gamers have every intention to return to WOW, Most should be cancelling their sub at this point knowing we got at leave 5 more months before live gets anything new.

The sales pitch blizzard has put gamers is nothing short of amazing.

[Wiredmana]

Considering I've been in hospital for nearly 3 months - This is okay for me.

Unfortunately my guild fell apart during that time and it's a large disappointment that people look at Gear > Skill. I haven't been able to find any groups that accept me; regardless of my achievements.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I'm predicting that the beta will be out by the end of Feb (maybe even next week) and WoD will be out before the end of April.

Good luck with that, the facts say otherwise.

[Pua]

Using lfr as a catchup mechanic rather than a way to see the ending in 1 week would go a long way to reducing player fatigue with raids.

Even then I'd argue that it doesn't accurately stipulate when people feel "done" with the content. Personally, I think most people were "done" with 5.4 as soon as the BlizzCon announcement for WoD was released.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Because it's a fantastic sales pitch.

Gamers want to believe it but the truth is it will never happen. At some point you would think gamers would realize this and that blizzard is just stringing them along expecting you to keep paying your sub for no new content.

Sadly, not enough gamers stop paying so blizzard gets the idea this is unacceptable. Even if gamers have every intention to return to WOW, Most should be cancelling their sub at this point knowing we got at leave 5 more months before live gets anything new.

The sales pitch blizzard has put gamers is nothing short of amazing.

It's because of WoW's huge turnover rate. 100 million total, only 7 million at a time. The players now don't realize Activision always lies.

[GoldNSilence]

Just unsub, that's what I did. Going through my backlog of games now.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Even then I'd argue that it doesn't accurately stipulate when people feel "done" with the content. Personally, I think most people were "done" with 5.4 as soon as the BlizzCon announcement for WoD was released.

I was done when I saw Garrosh led off in chains in-game.

[Deleted]

Not really. Its box cost is cheaper then most new console games. And its subscription is only 4-5 cents a day. That is hardly expensive. Even more so when that 5 cents a day gives you 24/7 access (minus down time) and free updates with potentially a lot of new stuff. You essentially get an expansion worth of content for free over the life cycle of the expansion.

Most people spend more going to the Movie theater, dinner, and drinks in one night. then they will on WoW.

How is 15 euros a month, 5 cents a day? I think you need to go back to primary school and take the math classes

[Kelimbror]

*snip*

So all you have is an overly long ad hominem, argument of semantics, with generally nothing of value? Ooook. Let me be as simple as possible for you: People complaining about the time to put out content will be the first people to complain when it isn't perfect. That's all the original poster implied. I have to agree that it is likely.

In regards to you thinking there is some epiphany of a discussion to be had from why the expansion isn't out sooner, after a decade of the same pattern of development, let me refer you to this simple point: You are not forced to continue paying for the game during this time. Much like you are not forced to pay movie tickets while waiting on a sequel, why you don't have to spend extra money on books waiting for part 2, and generally how this works across the board on every product ever.

Simply put, there is absolutely no value from a bunch of armchair game developers complaining that Blizzard takes to long to do x. None at all. Edit: Forgot passive aggressive smiley apology to match your posting style - PS I'm sorry if this sounds angry, it's just my style and not at all how you should read my words. You will likely think I'm a jerk. I can't please everyone and have nothing personal against you. Unless you are somehow my arch, in which case the Guild of Calamitous Intent has not notified me.

[Saxtorph]

You can cancel your subscription until WoD/beta if you'd like.

The perfect option. He'd probably still come here and whine about how he's not getting his way.

[Pua]

I was done when I saw Garrosh led off in chains in-game.

That's cool, I daresay a lot of people view it the same way. Then again, I know lots of people (including myself) who aren't done and who don't bother raiding at all... Though I've seen Garrosh polished off in LFR. My "not done", if you can believe it, is based on archaeology!

That's my point, which may have been unclear; it's up to each individual to decide when they're done with content. The reason I think the WoD announcement is what did it for most is because that's when we know "what's next". It sort of concluded the MoP story by telling us the next part, and caused players to just look forward to it.

[shise]

Looks like beta won't come till the summer, therefore WoD won't be coming till September or so. Unless the Beta comes within the next two months, still the game is not going to be released while we are in the summer, that's a fact.

[Pua]

So all you have is an overly long ad hominem, argument of semantics, with generally nothing of value? Ooook.

*Blinks*

That's your response? Seriously?

Have I spoken to you in this way?

Let me be as simple as possible for you: People complaining about the time to put out content will be the first people to complain when it isn't perfect. That's all the original poster implied. I have to agree that it is likely.

In regards to you thinking there is some epiphany of a discussion to be had from why the expansion isn't out sooner, after a decade of the same pattern of development, let me refer you to this simple point: You are not forced to continue paying for the game during this time. Much like you are not forced to pay movie tickets while waiting on a sequel, why you don't have to spend extra money on books waiting for part 2, and generally how this works across the board on every product ever.

Simply put, there is absolutely no value from a bunch of armchair game developers complaining that Blizzard takes to long to do x. None at all. Edit: Forgot passive aggressive smiley apology to match your posting style -

Saying I'm adding nothing, when you repeat what's already been discussed (a lot of which I've agreed with), is a bit silly. I'm sorry, but it is. I'm now going to leave this discussion where it is because you seem to want an argument when I don't, and are willing to circle in order to get it when I'm not.

PS I'm sorry if this sounds angry, it's just my style and not at all how you should read my words. You will likely think I'm a jerk. I can't please everyone and have nothing personal against you. Unless you are somehow my arch, in which case the Guild of Calamitous Intent has not notified me.

I don't take it personally at all, I just dislike this aggressive method of posting because you wouldn't approach a discussion with me in this fashion were we sat at a table having dinner. Equally, I wouldn't say you're a jerk; I don't know you and it'd be bigoted to judge you from your views on a video game.

[The Yeti]

I love how everybody pulls out their crystl balls of delusion and says, "THE SKY IS FALLING THE GAME IS DEAD, ANOTHER 13 MONTH TIER OMG BLIZZ UNSUB NAO" or "It'll be out in two months... Cause Blizz is #1!"

Fact is, none of us really know what the heck we are talking about. We're all basing it on historical precedence. This same historical precedence indicates that things are moving faster at the end of the expansion this time, when compared to WOTLK and Cataclysm.

Now BC was a different animal because of the Sunwell Raid, but that's clearly the outlier in this.

I think, we can all just sit back, and watch as the usual arguments take place on the forums. If anything, it makes my breaks at work more interesting

[Deleted]

The time they use to make a filler is time wasted on the new expansion. They've said that's why it hasn't been done yet.

Same with holiday events.

That is not the consumers problem.

Why do people accept "sorry guys, we didn't plan" so easily and then go on to actively defend this utterly dubious position?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

That is not the consumers problem.

Why do people accept "sorry guys, we didn't plan" so easily and then go on to actively defend this utterly dubious position?

This. THIS. THIS!

Remember when WoW had 12million players and the sky seemed the limit. Why then didn't Blizz create a second team of modelers and coders to work exclusively on patches? And if they know they cannot push an expansion out in less than two years, stop promising yearly expansions!

This isn't dev idiocy, this is a PR campaign now.