Item Squish and accessibility

[barlar]

With the item squish all the numbers are dropping dramatically, but we will still be at lvl 100. When a new player joins the game, lvl 100 is a long way off, and can seem very intimidating. With every expansion the xp needed to get from one level to the next has gotten smaller and smaller for the old levels and gotten insanely big for the last few levels of the new expansion.

So this is my suggestion: why not squish levels and xp as well? it will make this much less intimidating to new players, and will bring the level curve back to something reasonable.

it could look something like this:

Vanilla: 1-40
Outlands:38-45
Northrend: 43-50
cata: 48-55
pandaria: 53-60
WoD: 58-70

[Traveler Voltin]

With the item squish all the numbers are dropping dramatically, but we will still be at lvl 100. When a new player joins the game, lvl 100 is a long way off, and can seem very intimidating. With every expansion the xp needed to get from one level to the next has gotten smaller and smaller for the old levels and gotten insanely big for the last few levels of the new expansion.

So this is my suggestion: why not squish levels and xp as well? it will make this much less intimidating to new players, and will bring the level curve back to something reasonable.

it could look something like this:

Vanilla: 1-40
Outlands:38-45
Northrend: 43-50
cata: 48-55
pandaria: 53-60
WoD: 58-70

level squish would look more like a nerf than a stat/item squish.
also your get a free level 90 from buying WoD and blizzard might be selling level 90s at sometime.
your points are invalid.

[Donald Hellscream]

Because it would be silly to go from being level 90 in one expansion to all of sudden be level 60 when the next is out.

[barlar]

you have to have a 90 to get the lvl boost. and how is going from 90 to 60 any more silly than doing a million damage to doing 10,000

[Aeriel]

level squish would look more like a nerf than a stat/item squish.
also your get a free level 90 from buying WoD and blizzard might be selling level 90s at sometime.
your points are invalid.

The level 90 upgrade for a fee is already on the PTR... So it's more than "might be selling".

[barlar]

The level 90 upgrade for a fee is already on the PTR... So it's more than "might be selling".

this. but also how many new people are gonna buy a 90 if they can and wont know how to play? its gonna suck.

[Rucati]

you have to have a 90 to get the lvl boost. and how is going from 90 to 60 any more silly than doing a million damage to doing 10,000

No you don't.

And because deleveling makes no sense. Having damage changed is one thing, just losing levels is another entirely and makes no sense at all. It's also a lot more work to nerf levels, because you learn skills at various levels. They'd have to go back and change when you learn skills, talents, etc. and there's virtually no reason to do that. If leveling 1-70 takes say 45 hours, and leveling 1-100 takes 45 hours, it's the same amount of intimidation for new players.

[Ottius]

this. but also how many new people are gonna buy a 90 if they can and wont know how to play? its gonna suck.

Did you really learn your class while playing 1-40 with all those 3 abilities?

[PetersenIII]

Because it would be silly to go from being level 90 in one expansion to all of sudden be level 60 when the next is out.

Because it's not silly to magically go from 20,000 strength to 4,000 strength, right?

[Occasus]

Did you really learn your class while playing 1-40 with all those 3 abilities?

I sure didn't.

Even things like not having played my druid since WotLK he was a very different class. I did some reading and learned how to play the new version of the class. Playing a class from 1-90 neither makes you good or bad at the class and is an assumption I feel like I see made far too often. I had a girlfriend that I got really into WoW and she leveled up a hunter than made a DK once she got to level 55. Even after maxing her DK she never used diseases or used some core abilities because she didn't feel like she needed to. Also got my roommate into WoW. He did nothing but spam drain life for the first 40 levels on his lock because he thought it was hilarious that he never lost health that way. Eventually he wanted to compete with me and a friend and finally looked up how to play the class.

Time doesn't make someone good at a class, understanding does. Time can bring understanding, but it is far from a guarantee. I'm probably going to play a monk next expansion because I want a hybrid class (currently just playing a Hunter and a Rogue and we don't always have a tank in my group of friends). All leveling a monk would do for me is burn me out on the game and class. I've leveled enough, I have no interest in doing it again. I'll still be a fairly decent monk player despite not having leveled it from 1-90.

[Axelond]

I feel like because of the item squish the 1-80 leveling will be completely fubar. The item squish will NOT be linear. Blizzard themselves have stated that with the item squish they will be removing all the extra gear from max level tiers so 80 naxx and ICC gear will be almost exactly the same. So the hole leveling process you will basically have the same kinda gear at 60 and 80 (Just like you have at 20 and 40). Because the leveling process will be so dull they are just giving us free 90s

[Kelimbror]

Because it's not silly to magically go from 20,000 strength to 4,000 strength, right?

Everyone using this argument is doing it wrong. The amount of strength or damage you do is a behind the scenes operation of your character's spells. If you didn't have damage meters or displayed combat text, which is outside of the actual game world, it is literally invisible. However, your character's level is integral to their identity. You are the level 90 DK or level 90 Mage. You are not a 10k Intellect mage or a 20k strength DK.

Edit: Additionally your levels serve as a badge of honor of actual actions completed. You earned the XP to be level 90. You will soon earn the XP to be level 100. There is no definable action tied to having X amount of Y stat.

[Krazzorx]

I feel like because of the item squish the 1-80 leveling will be completely fubar. The item squish will NOT be linear. Blizzard themselves have stated that with the item squish they will be removing all the extra gear from max level tiers so 80 naxx and ICC gear will be almost exactly the same. So the hole leveling process you will basically have the same kinda gear at 60 and 80 (Just like you have at 20 and 40). Because the leveling process will be so dull they are just giving us free 90s

Its already extremely dull for the vast majority of players.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a feeling people don't realize the primary reason the squish was implemented:

Their engine couldn't handle any higher numbers. They literally were forced to do something. Its not because "smaller numbers are better".

[Traveler Voltin]

Did you really learn your class while playing 1-40 with all those 3 abilities?

i learned the basics so yes i learned

[SL1200]

This makes a lot of sense to me. They keep nerfing the xp it takes to level anyway. If we lose the damage, we should lose the levels too. It reflects exactly what is happening to our characters with this squish.

[NuLogic]

Because it's not silly to magically go from 20,000 strength to 4,000 strength, right?

You should still be knocking out the same percentage of health.

[Traveler Voltin]

http://wac.7725.edgecastcdn.net/8077...1/squish-2.jpg

[JoeShmo]

Everyone using this argument is doing it wrong. The amount of strength or damage you do is a behind the scenes operation of your character's spells. If you didn't have damage meters or displayed combat text, which is outside of the actual game world, it is literally invisible. However, your character's level is integral to their identity. You are the level 90 DK or level 90 Mage. You are not a 10k Intellect mage or a 20k strength DK.

Edit: Additionally your levels serve as a badge of honor of actual actions completed. You earned the XP to be level 90. You will soon earn the XP to be level 100. There is no definable action tied to having X amount of Y stat.

That is the biggest kind of contradiction one could make. The numerical value associated with character levels is as arbitrary as "20k strength". A level 90 doing level 90 MoP content is no different than a level 60 doing level 60 MoP content; its a redundant number system. And to point out...there IS such a thing as a 10k Int mage, or 20k str DK , its called "how you geared your character" , and in the DK's example .. a tank vs a dps. Even without those kinds of differences, the amount of str that a dk has is completely parallel to the "strength" of that dk. If anything, stat numbers mean more than levels do. Nobody looks at a body builder and thinks to themselves "I wonder what level that guy is."

The "badge of honor" and other achievements is superficial as well. It doesnt matter what the exact number is, only what its relation to the content is. Nobody cares about a random number like 90, or 150, only that those numbers coincide with tiers of the game. It would be no different if 90 was top MoP content, than if 60 was, the achievement will always be "this level number means its endgame". In the exact comparison with the item squish, it makes no difference what the number is, but only in the ability to do said content. It doesnt matter if end game WoD is level 100 or level 500 or level 30, so long as people can look at that number and tell "Ok...thats WoD endgame." just like the difference between a DK doing 1 mil dps now...or 10k dps at the same content level with the item squish. How do we explain 1-60 as an entire chunk of the game ( vanilla ) , outland being 10 more levels, northrend being 10 more levels, and then cata and mop being just 5 levels each, and then back to 10 levels with WoD?

The argument that levels are somehow fundamentally unchangeable , while the numbers on the character screen or gear can be washed out no problem, is Irony in its most basic form.

Im pretty sure just about every "hardcore" raider that pays attention to gear and character stats...will laugh at anyone that says "There is no definable action tied to having X amount of Y stat." , its actually EXACTLY what goes on when levels mean nothing anymore at the level cap. Even casuals understand that stats mean a great deal in relation to your characters power, and what it represents of your character.

Even the argument that damage meters are clouding representation of stats is hypocritical, since anything with a number associated with it does the exact same thing. If there were no dps charts...people could STILL tell how fast something died based on their gear. In fact, its the exact same process as being able to tell how fast or easy content is based on your character level, since it direct correlates to your characters stats. If characters never gained anything by "leveling up" , then you would have a point somewhere in your statements; but since everything alters your characters power in some way or another, its impossible to stat everyone is "doing it wrong."

Case and point: A level 1 with 400 pets has just as much "identity" as a level 999 character with 0 pets. Identity is subjective. The throws of achievement are based entirely on what rules are used to govern those achievements, which are entirely opinionated in and of themselves.

Is a level 90 WoW character more identifiable than a level 50 GW2 character? Only based on who you ask. Comparatively, they are both max level characters, equals in their own right. Its only when people start throwing out arbitrary numbers like character levels, or numbers of expansions / content patches / years the game is in servrice / etc. that people start creating artificial boundaries and achievements.

In the end, a level 90 with 20k str is no different than a level 60 with 300 str was; its all arbitrary numbers used to define their place in the game. Squishing character levels would be no more damaging to the game than the item squish, and in fact it could end up making the game MORE fun:

Both because each individual level means more in relation to the content it surrounds, and because players would get rewards more frequently at each new level , like when you could get a talent point at each ding. Think about that for a bit.

Edit: Wording.

[PetersenIII]

Everyone using this argument is doing it wrong. The amount of strength or damage you do is a behind the scenes operation of your character's spells. If you didn't have damage meters or displayed combat text, which is outside of the actual game world, it is literally invisible. However, your character's level is integral to their identity. You are the level 90 DK or level 90 Mage. You are not a 10k Intellect mage or a 20k strength DK.

Please don't speak for people who aren't you. I don't really care what number is in the circle by my name, as long as that number is the highest it can be. The number is irrelevant as long as it is the maximum.

Edit: Additionally your levels serve as a badge of honor of actual actions completed. You earned the XP to be level 90. You will soon earn the XP to be level 100. There is no definable action tied to having X amount of Y stat.

Right, because grinding Areans/BGs/Instances/Raids/Honor/JP/Conquest/VP totally aren't definable actions in the same way grinding XP is. :eyeroll:

You should still be knocking out the same percentage of health.

And likewise if levels are globally 'squished'.

[Deleted]

Interesting idea but unfortuantly I can't see it working, it would only give a minor benifit if only (XP numbers), Also you get a free 90