Kicked from challenge mode cause I used pvp gear. When will pve'ers understand pvp

[Casagrande]

The most important stat on challenge mode gear is number of sockets... PvP gear has very few sockets, and is therefore bad for challenge modes. A good set has about 25 gems.

[WarpKnight]

In a challenge mode situation though, the PvPer is going to be significantly better at interrupts, dispels, CC, etc.

Wat


I'd have kicked you too, or to be correct, I wouldn't have taken you in the first place.

If you don't have a PvE gear set that is 463 or higher item level then you are extremely lazy and haven't done an iota of PvE this expansion at all..

[Constraint]

What the hell is this nonsense..

Just no.

/shrug, I personally wouldn't argue with him, from a purely anecdotal perspective.

You can't get ANYWHERE in PvP without interrupting/CC/dispels. Literally. Whereas in PvE, not only do you almost always have a far greater number of players to "cover" for anyone who's blissfully unaware that they need to interrupt, but 90% of the time, it's next to irrelevant.

Even in Challenge Modes themselves, interrupting is rarely a factor, with the amount of AoE silences, stuns, lockdowns etc which groups WILL use on large, dangerous packs. That's simply not viable in Arenas, for blatantly obvious reasons.

At the most basic level, of course it makes no difference whether someone PvPs or PvEs - the simple fact is, PvP FORCES you to learn those skills, whereas PvE doesn't.

There are amazing PvEers in my heroic guild who get ranked virtually every time they play, with great positional skills, great movement skills, who SUCK at interrupting, and have NO IDEA how to CC effectively. Why? Because they don't have to. Only 1-3 people EVER need to interrupt/CC in PvE.

There is NO-ONE in high-ranked Arena who doesn't know how to interrupt/CC effectively. This is not an exaggeration. It is quite literally impossible to do so.

Does that mean the PvPer is a superior player? No. Does it mean he's a more complete player? No. Does it mean he'd be better in PvE than someone who focuses on PvE alone? No.

It simply means they (on average) shall be better at interrupting/CC than a sole PvEer. For the simple reason that it's second nature to EVERY semi-skilled PvPer. It's not really an argument. PvE simply doesn't require everyone to possess those skills - in some cases, it even discourages it. After all, if you're mid-cast, why would you /stopcasting and lose DPS when a melee dps/hunter can hit it without a dps loss whatsoever?

[Dasani]

Challenge modes are not hard. I know better than most because it's seem for the past week or so i've ran half a dozen people through 9/9 gold with some of my friends just to get everyone their xmog and junk before it goes away. Funny how no one cared until they put a time limit on it, now it's like hot cakes. Challenge modes are very special because of how easy it is to carry. One really good player, be it tank, healer, or dps can carry a couple of decent players and a couple of bad ones to victory. You can make up for others' failing so easily and in so many ways since time is all that matters. You can adjust strategy and tactics based on your group's strengths and weaknesses. Most people I see trying to do CMs are convinced they have to do it the same way they've seen it done, either on some video somewhere, or perhaps they got gold on an alt or something and want to do them all the same way, but it is simply not needed. Maybe it's just my experience doing heroic raiding for so long, but CMs don't seem difficult to me at all to get people gold, even if they aren't very good.

I don't "pug" challenge modes, and i've gotten 9/9 gold on all of my 90s actually months ago, but I still do them now and again here lately to help my friends get theirs done. So i'm sure standards for who you bring and what is acceptable vary. However when my friends approach me for challenge mode runs, I tell them to itemize themselves a bit. Look up some good, easy to obtain pieces of gear like old JP and old valor items that virtually anyone should be able to just fly over and buy right away. Takes very little effort. If they have some notice, like sometimes i'll tell them we'll do it in a day or two from when we're talking about it because I have raids to do or whatever, they also farm up blue items from heroic 5-man dungeons and junk just because the pieces are better itemized than their current pieces.

So basically, they put a little effort into it. It isn't a whole lot required, just spending your JP that no one uses for shit anyway, and maybe some valor, and a couple dungeon runs. It isn't really asking a lot from people. I do have several friends who exclusively PVP and they don't really "do" PVE content at all, and even they bought a few things and farmed up a couple of pieces. And that's fine. They were still mostly in PVP gear, but whatever, they tried.

If someone showed up wearing their full PVP shit without putting any effort into it at all, i'd tell them to go get fucked. I don't need challenge modes. I did that shit the first month of MOP. I'm there doing them a favor, and even 1-shotting every gold mode it takes some time. If they can't be bothered to spend the tiniest bit of effort to get themselves ready or a little more itemized for challenge mode, they don't deserve my time i'd have to spend to help them.

Ultimately it doesn't make a whole heap of difference just to grab golds if you aren't going for realm best times and shit, but I like people to put a little work into it to try to make it as smooth and clean as possible. I could carry someone through who just afk auto followed for the most part, but i'm not getting paid 100k per run like some people do. I wouldn't allow someone in pure PVP gear to step foot in a challenge mode I was running simply because they are lazy, and i'm not a fan of helping lazy people.

[TheWindWalker]

PvP stats mean nothing in a PvE situation so your effectively losing 20% ish of your stat budget in favour of PvP items, so explaining how PvP gear works is effectively pointless since it bears nothing in CMs, get proper PvE gear or just don't do them.

Did I miss something or are you unaware of the PVP gear change from... ya know, 5.0.4?

[Asphyxiate9]

If I remember correctly gem slots aren't scaled down and since there's a lot less gem slots in PvP gear the total missing stats would be quite distinct. You could run it with a PvP geared player but your going to have a find time finding a group thats willing to risk that.

[Deleted]

Funny how if you were full Timeless Isle geared they would of let you stay.

[Deleted]

While I don't think your pvp gear was a 'make-or-break'-thing in your runs, and while I wouldn't have kicked you for it...it indeed does show some lack of effort.
You are content with using subobtimal gear despite way more optimal gear being freely available through LFR SoO etc.

[Harpocrates]

cms arent hard. getting gear with sockets just to run them is rediculous enough

[Rucati]

Considering how faceroll easy it is to get Gold it really shouldn't matter, especially considering PvP gear is basically identical to PvE gear for stats.

Only difference is a few hundred of one stat, and if you fail to get gold it has nothing to do with that.

On top of that, I'd take someone with PvP experience over someone with LFR experience any day of the week. You can raid with about 5 skills, PvP requires 20+, on average the PvPer is going to be better skill wise anyway.

[crunk]

all these jokers who act like gear matters one bit in challenge modes crack me up. you can get gold as any spec on any class with any gear as long as the ilvl is at least 463. challenge modes ain't even that hard, the first couple you do with a group are a challenge but once you nail down the group's synergy and get a feel for what they can handle the other ~7 are a cakewalk.

you don't need to seek out sockets, you don't need to sweat group comp outside the very basics - "do we have core buffs? do we have a tank and a healer?" etc. just bring some fuckin skill and some invis pots and anyone can get gold.


source: did challenge modes at the start of the expansion in a hodgepodge of blues and 476 gear, then again with some friends in scumbag timeless isle gear. i even did them *gasp* as a moonkin. and everybody knows moonkins can't do challenge modes.

[xfreeder]

The PvPers flamed and tagged me when i did the PvP-Part of the Legendary Quest in my PvE-Gear because i had to, i kick them when i see them doing PvE in their PvP-Gear. Simple as that.

[Syfy]

When will pvpers get a brain....

[Krommm]

It's fine, but some PvE items have more sockets, which means easier time + faster times. Most groups barely make the time so they push for maximum gear. Besides that, people are silly.

[alucardtnuoc]

PvP stats mean nothing in a PvE situation so your effectively losing 20% ish of your stat budget in favour of PvP items, so explaining how PvP gear works is effectively pointless since it bears nothing in CMs, get proper PvE gear or just don't do them.

I love how you're so wrong.

Pvp stats on items do NOT count towards an items budget. If my best stats are Haste/mastery, and I see two belts, A pvp belt at ilvl 522 with haste mastery, and a 522 pve belt with hit crit, the pvp belt would be better.

So please, get your head out of the sand and look at how things have changed. BTW you can compare it yourself, PVP = PVE of the SAME ilvl.

[Razorice]

I would of kicked you too.
PvE needs PvE gear just as PvP needs PvP gear.
When I go to a BG/Arena I put on my PvP gear.
When I go to a Dungeon, Scenario, CM, Raid, I put on my PvE gear.
It's not rocket science...

[Lana]

i realize a lot of people are in a frenzy over completing CMs before they're taken out and if pvp gear is the best you have, i wouldn't have a problem with it. i've completed gold at the beginning of the expansion with my guild, but atm i'm running with a motley crew of friends and their alts, so their gear isn't exactly bis. it's too bad that most of the replies here would rather kick based on gear alone, and not a lack of merit.

[Drakkmur]

What is the difference between these two items?

http://www.wowhead.com/item=94967

http://www.wowhead.com/item=100427

It is 39 secondary stats plus a socket bonus of 60 mastery which may or may not be worth gemming for depending on your spec.

Secondary stats for my feral around 522 ilevel were worth about 3 dps per point. So at most the pvp boots are worth 300 dps less than the pvp ones and potentially less if your spec would cause you to gem straight agility because the bonus isn't worth it. If you are in all 15 pieces of pvp gear that means you are giving up about 4.5k dps. Assuming a skilled player could do around 175k dps, that means the guy in all pvp gear is doing about 2.5% less than the guy in all pve gear assuming their skills are equal.

So really, are you going to automatically exclude a player because of 2.5%?

And yes PvP players are better at interrupts. They do it every single time they play. PvE players have gone entire tiers of raiding without having to use their interrupt button (hello Dragon Soul). I would say 90% of my guild's wipes on heroic Nef during Cata was because PvE players are terrible at interrupting.

And just to be clear, I PvE 100% of the time except to do the BGs to get my legendary cloak. So I am not some PvP player that is biased. I am just telling you facts here. If someone uses a skill everyday another another player rarely or never uses one, the player that uses it everyday will be better at it.

[AseyBL]

it's doable in pvp gear, but pve is better = easier, simple is that.

You can run LFR to get items from SoO (best number of sockets) and ToT (trinkets + weapons) - its not so hard, so in my CM i would also kick for pvp gea. Ops did i say kick? Yes, but i never take person like that unless he have some goooooood experience in CM (at least few times done gold 9/9)

And yes PvP players are better at interrupts. They do it every single time they play. PvE players have gone entire tiers of raiding without having to use their interrupt button (hello Dragon Soul). I would say 90% of my guild's wipes on heroic Nef during Cata was because PvE players are terrible at interrupting.

no offence but if ppl have problem with interupts on pve they are not good pve players and progression.... is hard for them im wondering how they menaged to kill omnotron

[Deleted]

I love how most people that say they would have kicked you actually "would OF" kicked you. Says a lot about them.

Anyway, you were mostly right, they were dumbasses. PvP gear is slightly suboptimal, but if you truly were outperforming other people, they were frustrated, ignorant and just looking for a scapegoat.