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  1. #41
    I just have to lol when people think that things like individual abilities like ice block and deterrence somehow classify as raid utility on the same level as hymn of hope, stampeding roar, stormlash totem, healing tide totem, skull banner, AMZ, devotion aura, smoke bomb, gateways, etc.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeskee View Post
    Lets give Windwalkers raid utilities too! Mages have more than us so lets start from the bottom of the list at least.

    I can agree with this as well. I tend to forget WindWalkers exist since no one plays them.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeskee View Post
    Lets give Windwalkers raid utilities too! Mages have more than us so lets start from the bottom of the list at least.
    According to the people that want to classify things like ice block as utility, monks would actually have more utility than mages... with all their mobility, defensives, etc.

    Not saying WW shouldn't get utility. But arguing against a real issue by presenting another issue solves nothing and is just pointless.

  4. #44
    Deleted
    It has been known for ages now that mages don't have good raid utility. If you think otherwise, we are playing different games. I suggest focusing the suggestions directly toward Blizzard and even before beta, which kind of means now. Once beta hits, threads like this one will suffer the same fate as the threads before MoP, which means they will end with a bunch of posts like - "well it's beta already, so too late"

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Mana gems for the raid simply means you're mandatory for the healers, and that's something they're moving away from. I'd be more inclined to say mage food provides the effect of say, 250 stat food. Something useful, but both not mandatory, and doesn't overshadow cooking being the optimal method of that buff.
    The thing with mana gems for the raid is comparable to healthstones: they are not mandatory but nice to have. Lets say mana gem restores 30k mana, 3 charges, 2 min CD ... that would be a fair deal. It's not as strong as a mana tight totem but cool enough to use it 2 or 3 time per fight.

    Stat food is a cool idea too, but I think it would be too good in PVP, espacially arena :/

  6. #46
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallonsaft4 View Post
    We must be playing different games. Mages are not the #1 DPS and haven't been for 6 years, top 3 sure. But not top dps.
    You are exaggerating way much now, you act as if mages are at the bottom of the barrel and thats just not true.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minax View Post
    Mana Gems for the whole raid and i'm happy and maybe a shorter cd on Ice Block :P
    we already know that won't happen . ghostcrawler said we don't need more mana management stuff for healers. it was before 5.4 i guess.

  8. #48
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Polymorph, iceblock (for a druid aswell), aoe CC, conjure food along with timewarp you just mentioned.

    Not enough?
    polymorph? useless /warlocks ahve fear
    iceblock? useless, because unlike during warlock cds you can't deal dmg
    aoe cc? useless / warlocks have that too
    conjure food? useless
    timewarp? shamans bring that already

  9. #49
    Mages have slows and roots. Lots of them. Yes, those count as utility because of kiting. Blizzard, which is an AOE slow; cone of cold, which is an AOE slow; frost bomb, which is an AOE slow; frost nova, which is an AOE root; frostbolt, which is a slow; frostfire bolt, which is a slow; frostjaw, which is a silence and root; frozen orb, which is an AOE slow; slow, which is a slow (duh); ring of frost, which is an AOE freeze; ice ward, which is an AOE freeze.

    What else? Arcane brilliance, mage food/water, counterspell, deep freeze stun, iceblock, invisibility, polymorph, portals, remove curse, slow fall, spellsteal, time warp, combustion (stun), dragon's breath (AOE disorient which I remember using on Cho'Gal to CC mind-controlled players).

    I wouldn't say mages have a lack of raid utility.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Entbark View Post
    Mages have slows and roots. Lots of them. Yes, those count as utility because of kiting. Blizzard, which is an AOE slow; cone of cold, which is an AOE slow; frost bomb, which is an AOE slow; frost nova, which is an AOE root; frostbolt, which is a slow; frostfire bolt, which is a slow; frostjaw, which is a silence and root; frozen orb, which is an AOE slow; slow, which is a slow (duh); ring of frost, which is an AOE freeze; ice ward, which is an AOE freeze.

    What else? Arcane brilliance, mage food/water, counterspell, deep freeze stun, iceblock, invisibility, polymorph, portals, remove curse, slow fall, spellsteal, time warp, combustion (stun), dragon's breath (AOE disorient which I remember using on Cho'Gal to CC mind-controlled players).

    I wouldn't say mages have a lack of raid utility.
    Which heroic fight have you played where a Mage helped greatly with CCing a mob? I think I've used one single slow/cc midfight when progressing heroic and that was frostjaw + deep freeze when I was on grunt duty on Galakras.

    The things you listed are negligible in heroic raiding, most aren't even used in a single fight. "Ok guys, I have this new super awesome tactic involving me putting Blizzard over here. We'll definitely get the kill now. But first, let me Conjure some food and make some portals!!"

    Besides, the kiting and slowing isn't even a raid utility. Those are attacks every class has in one form or another. Don't act like mages are unique in that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treeskee View Post
    Lets give Windwalkers raid utilities too! Mages have more than us so lets start from the bottom of the list at least.
    Mages have 0. We have buffs and personal CDs. BL is a buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Mana gems for the raid simply means you're mandatory for the healers, and that's something they're moving away from. I'd be more inclined to say mage food provides the effect of say, 250 stat food. Something useful, but both not mandatory, and doesn't overshadow cooking being the optimal method of that buff.
    The thing is, making classes mandatory is a GOOD thing come WoD. Buffs are already mandatory in that sense, no?

    Mythic will be 20man and if it's mandatory to have at least one of every class in the raid, that would be beyond awesome.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Polymorph, iceblock (for a druid aswell), aoe CC, conjure food along with timewarp you just mentioned.

    Not enough?
    Because Polymorph is EVER used on today's bosses, AoE CC too. Ice Block isn't "raid utility", and Druids, if they're smart, get Deterrence because it's on a shorter cooldown and significantly better (lets you move and much shorter cooldown). Conjure food saves some money and Time Warp can be brought by other classes and you only need one while multiple copies of the same raid cooldown like Tranquility are helpful to the entire raid multiple times.

    Please think before spouting nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by torment3d View Post
    Mage has been the #1 raid DPS for literally 6 years. Why would you think you should get more stuff?
    Flimsy excuse. Warlocks now top almost every spec in DPS including Rogues and Hunters who have (almost) as little raid utility as we do, AND Mages yet have PLENTY of raid cooldowns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Edit: the rest of you guys, don't confuse raid utility for personal utility.
    People really need to learn the difference between the two. They also need to realize that CC is next to useless in raiding, and "making food" is NOT utility by any means; it just saves you a couple of gold.

    ... Actually, you shouldn't be eating that crap and should be eating a 250-300 food buff instead. It's only helpful when leveling.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  12. #52
    I'm not a Mage but my raid group lost its Warlock recently and it hit the group hard enough that I have to log on an 11th character (my Warlock), zone her into SoO, and log into her every couple fights so that we have Healthstones for everyone. It's painful.

    Mage misses a night and we swap to a different Hunter pet. There is no impact.

    Currently playing Borderlands 1 remaster. Amped for Borderlands 3.
    Add me on the PSN for jolly-cooperation @ PuppetShoJustice

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Flimsy excuse. Warlocks now top almost every spec in DPS including Rogues and Hunters who have (almost) as little raid utility as we do, AND Mages yet have PLENTY of raid cooldowns.
    .
    Lol good joke.. Hunters are middle pack with no utility. Be happy with your top 3 DPS and better utility(AKA Immunity that works)

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Lol good joke.. Hunters are middle pack with no utility. Be happy with your top 3 DPS and better utility(AKA Immunity that works)
    This is a mage thread. You don't even have a mage in your sig. Go make a thread about the state of hunter, don't bring it in here.

  15. #55
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Entbark View Post
    Mages have slows and roots. Lots of them. Yes, those count as utility because of kiting. Blizzard, which is an AOE slow; cone of cold, which is an AOE slow; frost bomb, which is an AOE slow; frost nova, which is an AOE root; frostbolt, which is a slow; frostfire bolt, which is a slow; frostjaw, which is a silence and root; frozen orb, which is an AOE slow; slow, which is a slow (duh); ring of frost, which is an AOE freeze; ice ward, which is an AOE freeze.

    What else? Arcane brilliance, mage food/water, counterspell, deep freeze stun, iceblock, invisibility, polymorph, portals, remove curse, slow fall, spellsteal, time warp, combustion (stun), dragon's breath (AOE disorient which I remember using on Cho'Gal to CC mind-controlled players).

    I wouldn't say mages have a lack of raid utility.
    What you just did is to mention every mage spell there is, we may have shitload of spells but a lot of them are useless crap or/and is in melee range which is stupid since were casters. And just stop it.. Frost bomb, really? Please tell me when it would be beneficial for a raid to have a mage with frost bomb. All mages don't have frostbolt, frostfire bolt and frozen orb... Warlocks bring everything but better. To be honest I don't think you've played a mage for real but just leveled it to 90 and maybe got 450 gear on it...

  16. #56
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    This is a mage thread. You don't even have a mage in your sig. Go make a thread about the state of hunter, don't bring it in here.
    niggerfaggot

    Infracted. - Shang
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2014-02-24 at 02:34 PM.

  17. #57
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    innervate is trash, stampeding roar and typhoon are situational, everybody has a battle rez.



    seriously, if we're going to look at druids and count every situational utility moonkin has we can do the same thing with mages you have blink, alter time, counter spell, frost nova, etc etc
    Dont come and try pass off druids as not having utility, just dont.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by dabsy View Post
    niggerfaggot

    ...What...?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Druids, if they're smart, get Deterrence because it's on a shorter cooldown and significantly better (lets you move and much shorter cooldown).
    Just a quick side note - sometimes ice block is better since it clears debuffs while deterrence doesn't. (which can matter a lot more on certain encounters)

    As for utility, yeah mages could use a little more raid utility, but whats far more likely is high raid utility classes (like locks) getting their utility nerfed. Honestly, especially in the raid CD department there are just soo many of them out there, I hope blizz reconsiders the raid cd vs. mechanic arms race.

    Gotta wait for the info dump to really get an idea where they are headed.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Just a quick side note - sometimes ice block is better since it clears debuffs while deterrence doesn't. (which can matter a lot more on certain encounters)

    As for utility, yeah mages could use a little more raid utility, but whats far more likely is high raid utility classes (like locks) getting their utility nerfed. Honestly, especially in the raid CD department there are just soo many of them out there, I hope blizz reconsiders the raid cd vs. mechanic arms race.

    Gotta wait for the info dump to really get an idea where they are headed.
    TBH I didn't think of that because very rarely do I use IB to clear debuffs (Ionization being the most recent) rather than damage/mechanic prevention, but thay is a good point to make. Still though, for 2.5x the cooldown, Deterrence is a lot better in my book, especially since it will lower things that you can't invul and you can still move at least, while we're locked in a block of ice (and it won't reduce damage that penetrates invulnerability)
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

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