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  1. #1

    When are IoC and AV going to be fixed properly?

    Isle of conquest in its current state is favoured towards the alliance, doesn't matter if you go docks or hanger, alliance always get there first, meaning horde are fighting a uphill battle from the start.

    AV isn't that bad apart from Galv been faster to get to for the alliance but easily sorted. Maybe something could be done with the towers too so the npcs can attack the alliance, maybe make them able to shoot through walls or just alter them all together.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    IoC has no alliance favoring. Travel time to docks is virtually identical so horde should not complain, just capture the docks and get glaives like alliance.

    "qq alliance gets there 2 seconds earlier". Capture timer does not go anywhere in 2 seconds and you have to actually god forbid, PVP to get it yourself. Even if alliance gets glaives first, you are already there to destroy the glaives the moment they spawn and GG horde win.

  3. #3
    If Alliance players capture the docks flag before the Horde force arrives it actually favors the Horde. Even a couple of horde players can completely wreck the glaives; if as the Horde team you can't kill the glaives then it is YOUR failure, not the map. The entire Alliance strategy relies on that first set of glaives; so easy to counter but Horde dipshits don't seem to get it.

    Seriously this is getting so stupid. Horde wins 2 out of 3 of all BGs, yet you still can't stop your bitching about AV and IoC. And Horde loses those 2 maps because they don't send a large enough force to kill the first set of glaives and they NEVER even attempt to backcap Tower Point and Iceblood Tower. Fix those 2 fuck ups and you would stop losing.

    What would make you happy? Would having a 75% win rate across all 11 BGs be enough for your fragile little feelings?
    Last edited by Skarssen; 2014-02-27 at 12:02 PM.

  4. #4
    AV is only favored to the alliance because randoms are just about running in and storming the opposing side as soon as possible. Fortunately for the alliance getting to the other side first benefits them the most.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Players just dont know how to play battlegrounds, i bet this applies to all battlegrounds as well. If alliance just knew how to play, they would have as good winrate as horde.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    If Alliance players capture the docks flag before the Horde force arrives it actually favors the Horde. Even a couple of horde players can completely wreck the glaives; if as the Horde team you can't kill the glaives then it is YOUR failure, not the map. The entire Alliance strategy relies on that first set of glaives; so easy to counter but Horde dipshits don't seem to get it.

    Seriously this is getting so stupid. Horde wins 2 out of 3 of all BGs, yet you still can't stop your bitching about AV and IoC. And Horde loses those 2 maps because they don't send a large enough force to kill the first set of glaives and they NEVER even attempt to backcap Tower Point and Iceblood Tower. Fix those 2 fuck ups and you would stop losing.

    What would make you happy? Would having a 75% win rate across all 11 BGs be enough for your fragile little feelings?
    This is such a stupid argument it honestly made my head hurt a little.

    All maps should be balanced, they should not be balanced on the understanding "Oh, well, you get to have this one, we get to have that one" - please tell me you don't honestly think that's good design.

    You seem so utterly angry that someone is upset at the shocking H:A win ratio for IoC, it's an entirely fair point, it's way outside the norm and needs to be looked into.
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  7. #7
    Deleted
    It is 99,99% for sure that BG stats are just because people dont know how to play bg. Unreasonable to think that blizzard would have developed bgs that have 70% favor of horde.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saeran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    All maps should be balanced, they should not be balanced on the understanding "Oh, well, you get to have this one, we get to have that one" - please tell me you don't honestly think that's good design.
    Totally agree.

    Out of curiosity, in the last AV call to arms weekend, I played 50 AVs on horde and won 8 and I played 50 AVs on alliance and won 39. The players aren't better or worse on either side, so there is and always has been a distinct advantage to the alliance in this BG. Will it ever get addressed? IMO, Blizzard have had years to do so and haven't done so yet, so my answer is a bit NO.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    This is such a stupid argument it honestly made my head hurt a little.

    All maps should be balanced, they should not be balanced on the understanding "Oh, well, you get to have this one, we get to have that one" - please tell me you don't honestly think that's good design.

    You seem so utterly angry that someone is upset at the shocking H:A win ratio for IoC, it's an entirely fair point, it's way outside the norm and needs to be looked into.

    AV and IoC are imminently winnable for the Horde; they just don't follow a good strategy. The same is true for Silver Shard mines and EotS for Alliance. How many EotS Alliance teams send 3-4 to MT, 1-2 to DR, and the rest to mid? How often does that strategy result in a loss before the game is 3 minutes old? How often do DWG Allance teams send 3-4 to mid, the rest to the north mine, and then ignore both carts? Alliance lose so many maps because of poor strategy (whether because Alliance players don't know the winning strategies or are just inexperienced idk)......and Horde lose AV and IoC because of poor strategy. Suggesting the map is at fault, when Horde never sends backcap teams to IBT and TP while Alliance almost always backcaps SHB and IWB, is just silly. Horde loses because it usually follows a poor strategy in AV and IoC. Yes, the map does alter the formula of a winning strategy for each side, but why is that bad? Seriously, why is that such a travesty? It would be bad if the strategy most likely to produce a Horde win was much more difficult to pull off, but it isn't...Horde just doesn't do it in AV and IoC (and Alliance doesn't do it in EotS, SSM, DWG)
    Last edited by Skarssen; 2014-02-27 at 12:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    lol more horde whining because there are actually 2 BG´s they don´t win a majority of the time. Buhu

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeran View Post
    The players aren't better or worse on either side, so there is and always has been a distinct advantage to the alliance in this BG.
    So why is the Alliance currently losing ~60% of all WSG, BfG, AB and TP matches? No terrain advantages there.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    AV and IoC are imminently winnable for the Horde; they just don't follow a good strategy. The same is true for Silver Shard mines and EotS for Alliance. How many Alliance teams send 3-4 to MT, 1-2 to DR, and the rest to mid? How often does that strategy result in a loss before the game is 3 minutes old? How often do Allance teams send 3-4 to mid, the rest to the north mine, and then ignore both carts? Alliance lose so many maps because of poor strategy (whether because Alliance players don't know the winning strategies or are just inexperienced idk)......and Horde lose AV and IoC because of poor strategy. Suggesting the map is at fault, when Horde never sends backcap teams to IBT and TP while Alliance almost always backcaps SHB and IWB, is just silly. Horde loses because it usually follows a poor strategy in AV and IoC. Yes, the map does alter the formula of a winning strategy for each side, but why is that bad? Seriously, why is that such a travesty? It would be bad if the strategy most likely to produce a Horde win was much more difficult to pull off, but it isn't...Horde just doesn't do it in AV and IoC (and Alliance doesn't do it in EotS, SSM, DWG)
    It's a pug map. Don't expect coordination with pugs without voice chats, enough time to discuss strategies,...

    Thats why LFR has (almost) no mechanic that requires strategy like Norushen orbs (it's all random who gets it), Thok doesn't 1 shot people in phase 2, you don't have to soak bombs in Iron Jugernnaut....

  13. #13
    the 40 man BGs have become nothing but a self fulfilling prophecy for horde. horde players have simply adopted the mantra that these docks are for alliance and AV is for alliance and simply give up at the loading screen.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Saeran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    So why is the Alliance currently losing ~60% of all WSG, BfG, AB and TP matches? No terrain advantages there.
    I'm talking about in the two battlegroups I play in, and the apparent skill levels on both sides that I have played against.

    60-40 loss ratio is not extreme anyway compared to the win-loss ratio in AV. I play both alliance and horde in PvP so I am not faction biased in any arguments like some posters are above.

  15. #15
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    AV/IoC won't be balanced simply because there's a win rate gap for Random BGs with specific BGs blacklisted.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    So why is the Alliance currently losing ~60% of all WSG, BfG, AB and TP matches? No terrain advantages there.
    Because the pvp community is entirely switching into horde, and has been over the past 2 years. The 40 to 60 ratio is only going to get worse over time, and I will give it a year when the alliance will be dipping into 30% win rate territory.

    Ironically the way to fix this would be to give alliance better PvP racials, or any PvP racials. EMFM is not as good as it once was because there so much CC, 1 less CC makes little difference, especially in a battleground type setting, where power of damage is more valued. All the other racials are not that useful in a battleground setting compared to AP boosts, Haste Boosts, the damage increasing racials horde has.

    Arena wins I would suspect would be more similar. But BGs alliance is fucked unless racials are revamped for every ally race, besides humans.
    Last edited by cityguy193; 2014-02-27 at 01:06 PM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeran View Post
    I'm talking about in the two battlegroups I play in, and the apparent skill levels on both sides that I have played against.

    60-40 loss ratio is not extreme anyway compared to the win-loss ratio in AV. I play both alliance and horde in PvP so I am not faction biased in any arguments like some posters are above.
    I was referring to your comment about relative skill between Horde and Alliance. If skill is equal across factions (no comment on that), why do Alliance lose a majority of those BGs with nearly mirror maps? I content that Horde don't lose AV and IoC because of the maps, they lose due to poor strategy, and I say the same is true for Alliance in those mirror map BGs (SotA, EotS, AB, WSG, TP) that they still manage to lose a majority of the time.

  18. #18
    I think that MAYBE it's a community mindset. As horde, all the good players KNOW we're going to lose AV so the majority of us don't queue for it. That leaves us in other battlegrounds (excluding isle as well), which makes us win those more often. The alliance KNOW they're going to win AV so the majority of good alliance will queue for that.

  19. #19
    I don't know a single horde player that doesn't have AV and IoC blacklisted.. All you're left in there are noobs and bots.. That drags win ratio even more towards alliance.
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  20. #20
    Really, just leave at least 2 BGs for the alliance please...

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