Death Knight Mobility PVP & PVE

[Huckfealing]

If there is one thing that I have felt on my Dk since the release of Cata. It is that we are always just behind the pack in terms of mobility. I personally can not think of another melee, and few range that suffer the same issues that we have. When compared to other melee specifically we really do premiere sub par.

Warrior: Heroic Leap, Charge (2x or 12sec cooldown accompanied with stun/snare) Intervene

Rogue: Sprint, Burst of speed/Shadow step, Preparation (Killing spree can even close a small gap)

Paladin: Burst of speed/Long arm of justice/Speed = holy power talent, Hand of freedom (2)

Monk: Double Roll (added with momentum or extra third roll) Flying serpent kick (All on short cool down)

Mage: Blink, Alter time

Hunter: disengage

Lock: double port/burning rush

Priest: Shield sprint/Angelic feather

Druid: Travel form, cat form, pounce/charge, shape shift freely out of snares and such, Cat blink

Shaman: Ghost wolf form, Spirit Walkers grace, Enhance sprint.


Dks: Grip, Unholy Pres, Deaths Advance


Now I'm sure I have missed many of the other small speed boost. But looking straight at the DK all we have are 2 short increases UP/DA that together equal about 55% increase. Nothing compared to 70% Sprints. And a grip, Which most of the time the class can immediately roll/leap/sprint away.

On paper it seems like we do have options, and even more than some other classes, but in practice we do not.

PvP: Depending on comp, you will almost always go Asphyxiate. Unless you are rolling with a hard stun comp and it's not needed, then you will go chilblains or even possibly DA. Which DA is nice in theory considering you can't be slowed below 70% AND a nice 30% speed buff. So in theory you have a 40% speed buff for 10 sec. However, on any melee comp you will crumble if not in blood pres which takes away the unholy pres speed buff. We can argue all day about why dk's are so squishy that we have to sit in blood pres at any competitive form of pvp. The problem really comes down to, once we get past the few mobility utilities we have, we are more or less a giant slug with a axe attached to our head through pvp. Sure, are power is there, Frost and Unholy both have good damage. But it means nothing when you can't catch the target. For this very reason Unholy has become the spec to be. Range damage/pets/diseases. Sure we can be kited, but most of our damage is garg/ghoul.

I've lost count the amount of times I've been kited an entire fight and killed, and nothing I can do about it.

PvE: the issues is lessened due to raid platforms only being so large, and you can actually be permitted time to move into position before a mechanic happens. And I even go engineering just to have some mobility in raids.

So my question is what do you all think about the state of DK Mobility?

I would also remind everyone that I'm not looking for a big overblown argument. I'm merely presenting my thoughts and looking for constructive feedback.

[Skarssen]

Specs that have good mobility generally have really lousy ranged damage and control. DKs have very strong ranged control and, for a melee, very good ranged damage, so the really lousy mobility is the tradeoff. If you want better mobility you have to give up either ranged damage or control; which would you rather lose?

[apepi]

Dks do not need mobility as they can control targets.

[Sky High]

as Skarssen mentioned DK's have way better ranged moves then other melee classes. we can't have ice chains, LOLgrip, death coil/death syphon, dark tendrils or whatever and have mobility along with it, that's ridiculous. and I've leaded to avoid kiters in general. leave that to the gap closers like warrs and rouges.

[Huckfealing]

I disagree with the idea that our ranged damage makes up for it. In fact, Enhance shamans have the best ranged melee, ranged interrupt, far more mobility. And our ranged damage is just simply not that strong. I have yet to see a dk range kill anything in high end pvp. I'm not talking random bgs. It's so simple to just kill a noob with a few HB/DC and say "Man our range is good." But that does not hold true in Arenas/RBGS.

Furthermore. Every Melee has a gap closer, and multiple iterations of it. We have 1. 1 that is easily escaped at that. If the argument that Chains makes up for this all, I humbly disagree. And hell, remove chains. The only reason we are brought is due to NS to kill healers. That's it. If there is no healer on the team we are sub par.

[scabobos]

Specs that have good mobility generally have really lousy ranged damage and control. DKs have very strong ranged control and, for a melee, very good ranged damage, so the really lousy mobility is the tradeoff. If you want better mobility you have to give up either ranged damage or control; which would you rather lose?

Ya... except for hunters. Who are great at literally everything.

[Sky High]

Ya... except for hunters. Who are great at literally everything.

ya hunters are DK bane flat out.

[Skarssen]

Ya... except for hunters. Who are great at literally everything.

Talking about melee here. We all know hunters and Harry Potter pussies play by different rules.

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree with the idea that our ranged damage makes up for it. In fact, Enhance shamans have the best ranged melee.

Unholy puts out incredible pressure without being in melee range. Enhance may be superior in ranged burst, but no way can it match unholy in consistent ranged pressure.

[Huckfealing]

Unholy puts out incredible pressure without being in melee range. Enhance may be superior in ranged burst, but no way can it match unholy in consistent ranged pressure.

That pressure can only be obtained with Garg and Ghoul transformation. Which are both cds. Unless there is a secret 40yrd range on SS and NS, this is just not the case.

And lets say that it 100% was. That does not change Frost. Mobility is horrible across the board.

[Skarssen]

Question remains, what are you willing to give up for an increase in mobility? There is absolutely zero chance we get more mobility without sacrificing at least 1, if not more, vital ranged tools.

[bals]

for pve, hell yeah

if our dps was actually decent I might be a bit hesitant but as it it's not.

[Huckfealing]

Question remains, what are you willing to give up for an increase in mobility? There is absolutely zero chance we get more mobility without sacrificing at least 1, if not more, vital ranged tools.

Very few things I wouldn't give up at this point. Hopefully with them nerfing range class mobility it will fix everything. But we have no tangible evidence to support that.

[Razorice]

I keep saying that Blizzard should add a reversed Death Grip glyph into the game and make it PvE only.

[Shiira]

Question remains, what are you willing to give up for an increase in mobility? There is absolutely zero chance we get more mobility without sacrificing at least 1, if not more, vital ranged tools.

I have no opinion on pvp, but the disparity in pve is pretty ridiculous. It doesn't matter if we can death coil or howling blast stuff from range, it's a basic function of melee dps to stay in melee range of our target if we want to do a relevant amount of damage. Ranged tools are meaningless when the tools other classes have involve getting back into melee range and continuing to do optimal damage.

Things will be better if blizzard go ahead with reducing the extent to which casters can dps on the move and reduce the amount of movement required in general, but I'd rather see more tools to deal with mechanics than see mechanics toned down.

[Skarssen]

I think Blizzard sees mobility as a much bigger issue for PVP than PVE. True warriors, rogues and monks get back on target much faster in PVE, but they also do nearly zero damage from range while paladins, shaman and DKs at least do SOME (pitiful, but some). I think it is shit too and would much rather have a better gap closer for PVE but we 100% aren't getting one without losing some ranged capabilities.

[Taninsam]

PvP aside, when it comes to PvE our mobility is indeed pretty bad. Death's advance should be baseline, and another mobility boost should be applied in the same lvl 45 talents (so that PvPers would rather choose the stun, for those worried about imbalance).

[Darkfriend]

Ya... except for hunters. Who are great at literally everything.

Except DPS.

[Deleted]

In 1on1 WPvP encounters I always managed to escape a DK if I wanted, as a hunter. On the other hand, they never escape me.
Not sure if their "control" is that good.

[Skeetzgaming]

We've always had bad mobility, but we make up for in damage.... Mind you i'd trade some damage for mobility!

[Deleted]

DKs have very strong ranged control and, for a melee, very good ranged damage, so the really lousy mobility is the tradeoff.

I LOL'ed so hard. Ranged control? Ranged damage? wtf are you talking about?

Rogue has more ranged damage than pvp specced (uh) DK (shuriken > DC by a mile, and can be spammed)
Blind, sap > DK "ranged control"

So the most pure melee in game have better ranged than DK. It has also better mobility, better survi, better CC, better team utility (DK has none).