View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

Voters
1260. This poll is closed
  • 0%

    660 52.38%
  • 0-10%

    189 15.00%
  • 10-20%

    58 4.60%
  • 20-30%

    51 4.05%
  • 30-40%

    30 2.38%
  • 40-50%

    58 4.60%
  • 50-60%

    48 3.81%
  • 60-70%

    34 2.70%
  • 70-80%

    38 3.02%
  • 80-90%

    25 1.98%
  • 90-100%

    69 5.48%
Page 50 of 121 FirstFirst ...
40
48
49
50
51
52
60
100
... LastLast
  1. #981
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Migas11 View Post
    The only way Tinkers could ever be a class is if they redid engineering, the profession, to simply be a DIY profession, and not the technology creation is is today both in lore and in mechanics.
    Actually it wouldn't, since the profession has no effect on the class. In other words, you lobbing useless grenades with long cooldowns does nothing to diminish a Tinker firing a cluster of missiles at a target area.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Wonder where the S.A.F.E. Team in Gnomer got those laser rifles.
    I can access S.A.F.E. abilities within the Engineering Profession?

    BTW, welcome to the table.

  2. #982
    Banned -Superman-'s Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Unsubbed til flight returns.
    Posts
    10,079
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I can access S.A.F.E. abilities within the Engineering Profession?

    BTW, welcome to the table.
    Less like joining the table and more like overhearing from the next table

  3. #983
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yet you are. Because we're talking the engineering skill, available to all characters living in the universe of Warcraft. Teriz is going out of his way to try to convince people that engineers and "tinkers" are not the same thing, almost like priests and warriors. He openly states that "tinkers" are 'inventors', and he also states in no uncertain terms that engineers in Azeroth are physically and mentally unable to create new things.
    No, like Enchanters and Mages, which are pretty far from the same thing.

    What makes Tinkers different than Engineers? One is a class, the other is a profession.

    What makes then different in lore? I'll let Blizzard decide, since they don't seem to care.

    And neither should we.

  4. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    Apologies for hijacking the tinker thread, but it's not like it's without precedent here, right?


    I personally can't believe anyone thinks this challenge mode set is the demon hunter look beyond the most superficial of equivocations. A person simply has to either acknowledge the distinction between Illidan and his very unique circumstances and the actual demon hunter specialist unit we were presented with in WC3, which it would follow the hero class would arguably be based upon outside a novel development in lore, hero class, wacky 4th warlock spec or not. Whatever the case, the look of a lithe "dark" melee ninja like warrior/rogue with their eyes bound is arguably 10 times(scientific fact) more important than metamorphosis is alone. Of the two images here, I know which one seems more like a demon hunter class to me and which looks like a warlock using Illidan's remains as demonic relics, like some demented unholy perverted reliquary.



    So wearing Illidan's bones and skin draped on your body and his horns makes you feel like you look like a demon hunter? His gold trimmed loin cloth added to a robe? I think if that's true for any of you, you must have no distinction between the demon hunter class WC3 implied and Illidan the individual, and this is just vital to understanding the entire issue. With this set they took demon hunter elements, namely Illidans dead body and his remains, and infused them into the warlock look, so it looks like a demon hunter inspired warlock, it's not a warlock given the demon hunter's look beyond the most superficial equivocation. It's basically no different than Illidan carrying Gul'dan's skull only someone went overboard, and needs to see a therapist at the very least once they get back home from their quest. The warlocks of the Black Harvest are using his remains as relics of power, on par with the Catholic Church and Relics of Saints.

    This is a demon hunter.






    They look far more like rogues traditionally, and many rogue tiers are designed arguably especially to evoke "demon hunter-y" themes, along with several other hero units and racial homages we've had to make due using the generic net each class offers for a number of explorations. We've got to stop ignoring that Rogues and Warlocks still heavily share the tone and mechanics of the demon hunter, and that metamorphosis intrinsically is the backbone setting them apart from anything. That Challenge Mode armor is like claiming a Priest tier set looks like a Paladin to me, if we didn't have paladins yet and someone was claiming Tier 5, Tier 6, Tier 13 were "good enough".

    Arguably the only reason Demon Hunters wear kilts in WOW is because we lack hakama geosets that do the wide panted leg silhouette justice. They aren't meant to look robed like a warlock, though it would certainly be a plausibly circumstantial design if they were part of a tier should the class see the light of day,(with spectral sight of course) the same way paladins are robed at times like a priest. But traditionally a demon hunter's look is much more rogue than warlock aesthetically. But they certainly share aspects, but it's become more than tiresome as to the ratio of which vs which is which here in the way this serves a number if individual's necessary positions.


    The only "look" warlocks get from demon hunters is metamorphosis. Basically Illidan as a unicorn of darkness.
    Personally, in the subjective issue I'm fixated on here, this is my attempt at creating a warlock evoking a demon hunter's look, trying to make a distinction beyond a robed caster. If only Dark Apotheosis didn't feel like a cheap halloween costume. But it may just be the best I ever will get in my puerile and superficial fixation on the tackiest of tacky.

    Dual Wielding is unfortunately off the table. Warglaives for mogging too. Night Elves as Shen'Dralar Warlocks too. An so we make due,....

    And so we make due,...


    - - - Updated - - -



    This is what everyone said after DKS. Blizzard doesn't follow a pattern like this. They work on what they think seems fun and cool and inspiring, and when absolutely necessary they factor in this kind of logic behind their process. You cant' infer this, and everyone who tried ended up on their ass when monks got released.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Your flippant dismissal of something so much more nuanced and meaningful makes it a basic waste of time to try and discuss this. You're just doing the paladin/prist thing. As if waving around a hammer and wearing plate is so incidental. You're within inches of applying this to any melee class i the game and dismissing them with the same flippancy.

    You're spinning things and overlooking the spectrum of positions on this in favor of your own.
    you should post it in some DH threads

  5. #985
    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    you should post it in some DH threads
    He does, trust me. This happens any time Tinkers or Demonhunters are brought up, as they are in a close race for most popular next class. Not that either side thinks it's close.

  6. #986
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Wonder where the S.A.F.E. Team in Gnomer got those laser rifles.
    The difference between a Tinker and an Engineer is that most of what a Tinker uses to fight are gadgets made by Tinkering, and most of what an Engineer uses to fight are not gadgets made by Engineering. So the simple answer is they got the lasers because they're Tinkers, as most NPCs who use Engineering exclusively in combat are.

    The slightly more complex answer is that the Engineering profession is a discrete subset of Warcraft tech. It can't make everything. This isn't even a matter of balancing, or of keeping blatantly overpowered things like nukes out of player hands - it extends to little things like pets and mounts and to just regularly powered things like the laser rifles. NPCs don't have the engineering profession. Only players do. NPCs aren't limited by it. They can be Tinkers or pilots or Gunmen or Sappers or whatever else falls under the tech heading, and use that as the basis for their characterizations, their core characteristic, their true fighting style, and they can be given whatever gadgets they need to make that fighting style work. Player engineers can only be given the gadgets needed to make a non-engineer-centric fighting style work.

  7. #987
    Immortal Luko's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Danger Zone
    Posts
    6,994
    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    you should post it in some DH threads
    I'll never get tired of people quoting Yig posts without editing the quote.
    Mountains rise in the distance stalwart as the stars, fading forever.
    Roads ever weaving, soul ever seeking the hunter's mark.

  8. #988
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,868
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, like Enchanters and Mages, which are pretty far from the same thing.
    What makes Tinkers different than Engineers? One is a class, the other is a profession.
    What makes then different in lore? I'll let Blizzard decide, since they don't seem to care.
    And neither should we.
    Enchanters and mages are as much the same thing as a pharmacist is the same as a surgeon. Enchanting is a school of magic, out of eight schools. And lore-wise, next to no mages know all the schools. Mages in their majority specialize in one and know one or two others.
    What makes Tinkers different than Engineers? In the universe of Warcraft? Simply a title.
    What makes them different in lore? A title.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  9. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What makes Tinkers different than Engineers? In the universe of Warcraft? Simply a title.
    What makes them different in lore? A title.
    Which means nothing. It's technically true that lore engineers have few differences from lore tinkers. But player characters are incapable of being either a lore engineer or a lore tinker, which both use engineering as their core characteristic and combat methodology. Can players do that? Rhetorical question. The answer is no. Which means that player characters with the engineering profession are not engineers as the lore describes them. They're something different. Something with the same name, but still something different. So what makes them "the same thing?"

    A title.

    And lore-wise, mages are expected to know all of the schools. Which ones they specialize in are up in the air. But all mages know at least basic spells from the enchanting school, one of which is Dispel Magic.

  10. #990
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What makes Tinkers different than Engineers?
    Abilities.

    In the universe of Warcraft?
    Abilities.

    What makes them different in lore?
    Irrelevant.

  11. #991
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,868
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    And lore-wise, mages are expected to know all of the schools. Which ones they specialize in are up in the air. But all mages know at least basic spells from the enchanting school, one of which is Dispel Magic.
    A mage's knowledge of all the schools of magic is akin to a real life college graduated person's knowledge of all the classes he had in high school. Yes, he learned about them all, but nowhere near enough to be made really meaningful other than help him choose which one he'll pursue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Abilities.
    Abilities.
    Which both share since both create and use technology. It's like choosing between going to a physician, a medic or a doctor. All three are the same thing.

    Irrelevant.
    I don't think so. It's very relevant since the lore is what drives the game forward.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  12. #992
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Which both share since both create and use technology. It's like choosing between going to a physician, a medic or a doctor. All three are the same thing.
    Actually no. The Tinker has completely different abilities than the Engineer.

    Its also not like going to a physician, medic, or doctor. Its more like choosing to go to the doctor, or going to your friend who read a medical manual. Tinker is the expert. The Engineer is the hobbyist.

    I don't think so. It's very relevant since the lore is what drives the game forward.
    No, its Blizzard that drives the game forward. Blizzard controls the lore, and they will change or add to the lore to make whatever game mechanic that they want to fit. The Monk class is a prime example.

    So yeah, it's irrelevant.

  13. #993
    i am starting to think Ielenia really hates tinkers.

    engineering is a job.

    tinker is a way of life.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  14. #994
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    A mage's knowledge of all the schools of magic is akin to a real life college graduated person's knowledge of all the classes he had in high school. Yes, he learned about them all, but nowhere near enough to be made really meaningful other than help him choose which one he'll pursue.
    High school had warrior, rogue, mage, warlock, shaman, paladin, druid, monk, death knight, priest and hunter classes. College has the magic school classes. Post grad has the specialist classes. Mages can't be mages without studying enchanting. "They forgot it" is not a reason to not have it, it's an excuse, and one that you made up out of whole cloth to boot. The fact of the matter is that there is no official explanation as to why it is possible to be a mage and not know how to enchant. It just is that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's like choosing between going to a physician, a medic or a doctor. All three are the same thing.
    You really have no idea what you're saying when you say it, do you? A physician is a type of doctor who specializes in general practice medicine, which believe it or not does not encompass all medicine. A doctor is an individual who has obtained a doctorate degree, not necessarily in medicine. A medic is either a member of a military medical corps, or a medical student or intern.

    But sure, go ahead and get a checkup from Dr. Phil.

  15. #995
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,868
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually no. The Tinker has completely different abilities than the Engineer.
    Its also not like going to a physician, medic, or doctor. Its more like choosing to go to the doctor, or going to your friend who read a medical manual. Tinker is the expert. The Engineer is the hobbyist.
    Actually, no. It's not a hobby. There is no evidence in the game that engineer is nothing but a 'hobby'. A hobby doesn't award you 'grandmaster' recognitions. Both are the same thing, from what I see the same thing. If anything, going by the definition of the words, the engineer is the expert and the tinker is the one with the 'medic manual'.
    From Wikipedia:
    Tinker: "Tinkering is therefore the process of adapting, meddling or adjusting something in the course of making repairs or improvements"
    Engineer: "An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics, and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems"

    No, its Blizzard that drives the game forward. Blizzard controls the lore, and they will change or add to the lore to make whatever game mechanic that they want to fit. The Monk class is a prime example.
    So yeah, it's irrelevant.
    Blizzard controls both gameplay and lore. That is a fact. But also a fact is that certain kinds of games do not work without lore. Which is the case of practically every RPG and adventure games. People play those for the vast majority for the story. On other hand, there are games that not only work but also thrive on gameplay alone. Beat-em-up and fighting games are a good example. Back in my arcade times, I didn't care about the story for the Final Fight or Street Fighter games. I just wanted to beat my opponent.

    Also, going by logic, the monk concept was designed first, THEN the game mechanics for it were created/adjusted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    High school had warrior, rogue, mage, warlock, shaman, paladin, druid, monk, death knight, priest and hunter classes. College has the magic school classes. Post grad has the specialist classes. Mages can't be mages without studying enchanting.
    Actually, I haven't seen it anywhere at all, even outside of the Warcraft universe, in DnD or other fantasy settings where magic schools start at early ages, just like Jedi training, which leads me to believe that, in WoW, a mage starts his magical studies around the time a normal kid starts school or pre-school.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  16. #996
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Soul of Azeroth
    Posts
    29,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Actually, no. It's not a hobby. There is no evidence in the game that engineer is nothing but a 'hobby'.
    You mean other than being able to swap out of the profession at any time? You mean other than the profession being a completely optional experience? You mean other than Blizzard allowing a bunch of NPCs to grind your profession for you starting in WoD? You mean other than the useless weapons Engineering creates that can't even hurt base-level creatures?

    Yeah, its a hobby. It's no different than a guy who messes around with electronics in his garage, or a guy who makes bombs after reading manuals on the internet.

    A hobby doesn't award you 'grandmaster' recognitions. Both are the same thing, from what I see the same thing. If anything, going by the definition of the words, the engineer is the expert and the tinker is the one with the 'medic manual'.
    You can be very good at a hobby. There's plenty of expert hobbyist out there.

    Blizzard controls both gameplay and lore. That is a fact. But also a fact is that certain kinds of games do not work without lore. Which is the case of practically every RPG and adventure games. People play those for the vast majority for the story. On other hand, there are games that not only work but also thrive on gameplay alone. Beat-em-up and fighting games are a good example. Back in my arcade times, I didn't care about the story for the Final Fight or Street Fighter games. I just wanted to beat my opponent.
    Oh there's definitely lore. The issue is that Blizzard can do whatever it wants with the lore, so using it as an argument as if its a permenant thing is pointless. Blizzard can move the lore around to fit whatever it wants into the game, implement new concepts, completely change lore, or help make something murky a lot more clear.

    Look what it's doing with WoD.

  17. #997
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Actually, I haven't seen it anywhere at all, even outside of the Warcraft universe, in DnD or other fantasy settings where magic schools start at early ages, just like Jedi training, which leads me to believe that, in WoW, a mage starts his magical studies around the time a normal kid starts school or pre-school.
    In the Mage manga mentioned previously, the main character chose to become a mage himself, indicating an age which is quite a bit older than the kids in the Jedi academy. The cover art indicates he's at least a teenager, and in the story he is an apprentice. However, his teacher is specifically named as an instructor for young mages, indicating that his age is near the lower end of the age range typical students have.

    As usual, you don't find this sort of information because you don't go looking.

    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post
    6. Where is the foreshadowing in the game for them so far?
    The leader of the entire Gnome race is a tinker. Plenty Draenei and Blood Elfs in game are, in a fashion, tinkers. Undead apothecaries are present as well.
    For the record, Gallywix is also a Tinker. Aside from almost never fighting outside his spider tank (only doing so once, as part of a Combat Breakdown when Garrosh destroyed it in one of the short stories), he's one of the heads of the Tinkers' Union back in Undermine.
    Last edited by Drilnos; 2014-03-03 at 07:59 PM.

  18. #998
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,868
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    In the Mage manga mentioned previously, the main character chose to become a mage himself, indicating an age which is quite a bit older than the kids in the Jedi academy. The cover art indicates he's at least a teenager, and in the story he is an apprentice. However, his teacher is specifically named as an instructor for young mages, indicating that his age is near the lower end of the age range typical students have.
    Since said material is not being published where I live, I had to download it from the internet. And from what I see his age... he's around just about 'high school' age by the time he decides to be mage, so far even to have a mage 'sense something in him', akin to Jedi senses to the Force, so my theory still stands.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  19. #999
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    In the Mage manga mentioned previously, the main character chose to become a mage himself, indicating an age which is quite a bit older than the kids in the Jedi academy. The cover art indicates he's at least a teenager, and in the story he is an apprentice. However, his teacher is specifically named as an instructor for young mages, indicating that his age is near the lower end of the age range typical students have.

    As usual, you don't find this sort of information because you don't go looking.



    For the record, Gallywix is also a Tinker. Aside from almost never fighting outside his spider tank (only doing so once, as part of a Combat Breakdown when Garrosh destroyed it in one of the short stories), he's one of the heads of the Tinkers' Union back in Undermine.
    i thought gallywix was a rogue.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  20. #1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Since said material is not being published where I live, I had to download it from the internet. And from what I see his age... he's around just about 'high school' age by the time he decides to be mage, so far even to have a mage 'sense something in him', akin to Jedi senses to the Force, so my theory still stands.
    That thing isn't published where I live either. It's called research, and it's what you do when you want to have a basis for an opinion that isn't made of bullshit. And your "theory" was that they started at preschool age, based on what you saw in Star Wars. Are we counting Star Wars as canon now? 'Cuz Star Wars has Bounty Hunters, and those would be sick to play as in WoW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    i thought gallywix was a rogue.
    An easy mistake, he only really even appears in-game in the goblin starting zones and it's possible to miss seeing him fight. It's more of a description of his combat style than his personality, since he's generally focused more on making money and probably has at least some of his equipment made for him, but the only attack he's ever made outside of his mecha was a headbutt, and no class has one of those as far as I know. That headbutt was facilitated by his ejector seat, however.
    Last edited by Drilnos; 2014-03-03 at 08:42 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •