Reason's behind disgust at 60$ for level 90 chars

[-Superman-]

If they "just bought" the game, then they probably ought not to go purchasing a 90, should they?

The service is clearly designed for people who have already gone through the content a half-dozen or more times and don't want to experience it anymore. It's not intended for people "who just bought the game" but if they want to use it, who gives a shit? It literally doesn't matter at all to anyone ever.

This really just sums it up. Anyone who buys WoD gets a 90. Anyone who BUYS a 90 obviously has money to spare, not time. I would rather pay to skip 90 levels, and then spend that 40+ hours of playtime actually PLAYING in current content.

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It doesn't matter if newer players with a little bit of $$ NEVER have to quest through 9 years worth of lore? That's a little depressing, even to me.

New players get a Free 90. They are already never having to quest through lore. If they want an alt, they can either get it free by questing or come outta pocket. Knowing new players, they likely won't spend $$ on a game they are just joining. This is designed for us 7-10 year players.

[Constraint]

This really just sums it up. Anyone who buys WoD gets a 90. Anyone who BUYS a 90 obviously has money to spare, not time. I would rather pay to skip 90 levels, and then spend that 40+ hours of playtime actually PLAYING in current content.

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New players get a Free 90. They are already never having to quest through lore. If they want an alt, they can either get it free by questing or come outta pocket. Knowing new players, they likely won't spend $$ on a game they are just joining. This is designed for us 7-10 year players.

That's a very, very big conclusion to jump to. If they've just received a free 90, and they (rightfully so) see this as the norm, why would they, as a whole, think, "Mm, the instant 90 feature is obviously for them 7-10 year players - I'll just do it the long way, even though it seems completely pointless, since I didn't have to do it the first time." They won't even have the "moral" qualms about it that I and a few others have, how it's just paying to skip content and gain a small time advantage. They'll just see it as the norm, for fairly obvious reasons (their first character was instant, with a $$ fee attached to it too).

I don't really see how the game suggests in any way that the $$ 90s are aimed at long-term players. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not seeing it.

[Sarella]

The price is both too high and appropriate.
The problem is moreso levels 10-60 are utterly worthless.
Blizzard did an item squish, but forgot to remove the levels which really don't introduce anything in terms of gameplay.
You learn to play 1-10, you then spend ages grinding 11-60 before reaching outlands and experiencing something new. Blizzard thinks that people enjoy levelling but really, it's just a waste of time. And new players to the game are not going to learn anything either, when the game is focused around max level and not about the levelling grind itself.

I levelled 4 druids to 90 (1 BC, 1 Cata, 2 MoP) and 3 Shammies (2 BC, 1 MoP) and every class except Rogue at least once. I can honestly say the worst experience was levelling in MoP whereby I didn't receive my druid bear tools until far too late - a problem that highlights the pointless nature of levels 10-60.

Overall if they don't enhance levelling, they should remove a large chunk of the pointless behaviour of it, while squishing all expansions from 10 to 5 levels to match Cata/MoP

[Ordinator]

Evil? *snicker*

No, seriously. There is no pressure to pay for the service. I don't see how it can be 'evil' in any fashion if it is up to the individual to buy the service. It's an option for convenience. Even if they made leveling different and 'fun', it will still be time consuming, and therefore unappealing to a certain group of people. This option is to let said group of people skip content that they have no desire to do. Don't like it? Don't use it. I won't be; I actually enjoy 'twinking' a character as I level while doing battlegrounds and fully intend to do that if I level another character.

What is seriously with this argument. I just can't believe Blizzard has to cater to the group of people who "don't want to level". The way I see it is anyone who is aggressively supporting this is entirely selfish in that they don't want to play the part of the game that has been there since day 1, and they don't want to hold Blizzard to any amount of standard. You would instead just say "PLEASE BLIZZARD TAKE MY MONEY AND GIVE ME INSTANT SATISFACTION". While the other people who want's no part of it can see that Blizzard is gouging their player base with micro transactions while still taking your subscription fee. STOP saying things like "you don't have to buy it" and "it doesn't effect you". I've played WoW for years and I'm passionate about it. Blizzard selling boosts in their very own game is a giant hit to WoWs integrity, and in that regard it does effect me personally.

[Barkloud]

What an incredibly loaded post.

Like the above poster said, there is so much more to this issue than "i are bored of lvling". The entire principle of charging their players to skip the game they just bought because blizzard can't keep it fresh is misguided, short sighted, and borderline evil.

I like the service. Leveling sucks. Not only have I done it too many times. I have anxiety from actually seeing another player. WOW is terrible for seeing other players while leveling. Better sprint to hogger!!! Better tap everything on my screen so I can get credit!!! Maybe if they embraced the idea of players playing together instead of competing with one another people would not despise leveling as much. Immersion is difficult when you are speed tapping so they guy next to you does not steal your xp.

Even when guildies and I are speed leveling we often do not group up. Especially with the 8 billion collect xx of this quests.

[Ordinator]

I like the service. Leveling sucks. Not only have I done it too many times. I have anxiety from actually seeing another player. WOW is terrible for seeing other players while leveling. Better sprint to hogger!!! Better tap everything on my screen so I can get credit!!! Maybe if they embraced the idea of players playing together instead of competing with one another people would not despise leveling as much. Immersion is difficult when you are speed tapping so they guy next to you does not steal your xp.

I've played on a full server since Burning Crusade and have literally never ran into this problem.

[Gray_Matter]

What is seriously with this argument. I just can't believe Blizzard has to cater to the group of people who "don't want to level". The way I see it is anyone who is aggressively supporting this is entirely selfish in that they don't want to play the part of the game that has been there since day 1, and they don't want to hold Blizzard to any amount of standard. You would instead just say "PLEASE BLIZZARD TAKE MY MONEY AND GIVE ME INSTANT SATISFACTION". While the other people who want's no part of it can see that Blizzard is gouging their player base with micro transactions while still taking your subscription fee. STOP saying things like "you don't have to buy it" and "it doesn't effect you". I've played WoW for years and I'm passionate about it. Blizzard selling boosts in their very own game is a giant hit to WoWs integrity, and in that regard it does effect me personally.

No, it doesn't affect you. It might bother you but it doesn't affect you.

The majority of the people who think the price is right or too low are ones who have no intention of actually using it. They are people who want to make it as difficult as possible for people to buy boosts. That's fine, you are allowed that opinion. The problem is that WOW has to compete with other games. The price charged is exorbitant for what people are getting when compared to other games in the market. You can buy a number of A level games for that price.

On the subject of leveling, call it what you want (cop out by Blizzard, etc), the game is not friendly to new players. They have to spend a whole lot of time before they can actually play with their friends. The content that they are playing through is not relevant in any way, it's not fluid and it's very grindy. You must remember that the game was for each bank of levels to be an experience (1-60, 60-70, etc). At the time when the expansions were released people spent a huge chunk of time getting to the next max level. As it stands now, it's extremely annoying to level to 90. Its not alt friendly at all. It will actually drive new people away from the game. I recently leveled a char on a new account to 90. It took me about 1.5 - 2 months with no heirlooms. It was content I had done before on another account. They have streamlined the zones (less quests). The problem is that it has an horrible effect on flow. I frequently found myself 2-3 levels above the zone as I was doing dungeons as well. I spent more time running to the next quest hub / zone than actually doing any questing. What they needed to do was create "paths" through the leveling process. Leveling to max level shouldn't take more than 2 weeks. It should be streamlined to the point where you can do a zone completely and get level appropriate XP until you are 4 or 5 levels higher than the zone. Killing a mob in 1 zone gives you far less XP than a higher level zone and thats a problem. There should then be a choice of flight points to the next zone where someone can do about 7 levels. People using alts can take different paths for the alts which will keep the experience relatively fresh. Who cares if a new player doesn't see 4/5 of the content. They will see some more with an alt. It will make leveling alts far more interesting as there will be a number of players out in the world because leveling will be fun and worthwhile.

The reason why the boosts exists is because the age of the game has made the leveling process fundimentally flawed. It's not fun, it's grindy and boring. The majority of people supporting the boosts would happily accept a streamlined leveling process instead. Right now, there is no alternative to the hell that is leveling. Until you start a new account and try and level to max level without any of the heirlooms, gold and other guild boosts, you won't realisically understand how bad it really is.

[Ordinator]

They have to spend a whole lot of time before they can actually play with their friends.

Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".

[Bryntrollian]

Pay2win ? Attaining level cap hasn't been seen as " winning " since Vanilla, get real...

[Gray_Matter]

Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".

Effort vs Reward - An XP boost while with friends doesn't help a lot of new players or people who want to level alts. The proper solution would have been to work on and streamline the old content. That would have taken away from other parts of the game which would mean either a later WoD or one with less new "stuff". With the boosts Blizzard gets to focus on the new stuff and new people are happy. The problem is that new people won't really be happy with just one 90 (free one) and the boost is too expensive for anyone who doesn't have a massive investment in the game which new players don't have so they will start with their 1 max level, level an alt to 20 or so before they get bored and then call it quits on the leveling. they might play with their max level for a bit but if they don't like the class they picked then they are stuffed. Something that could have been an enabler for new players is not because of the price. All it does is allow the few people who have a massive investment in the game to get a few extra alts and annoy a chunk of the players who are against the concept as a whole.

[Ordinator]

Effort vs Reward - An XP boost while with friends doesn't help a lot of new players or people who want to level alts. The proper solution would have been to work on and streamline the old content. That would have taken away from other parts of the game which would mean either a later WoD or one with less new "stuff". With the boosts Blizzard gets to focus on the new stuff and new people are happy. The problem is that new people won't really be happy with just one 90 (free one) and the boost is too expensive for anyone who doesn't have a massive investment in the game which new players don't have so they will start with their 1 max level, level an alt to 20 or so before they get bored and then call it quits on the leveling. they might play with their max level for a bit but if they don't like the class they picked then they are stuffed. Something that could have been an enabler for new players is not because of the price. All it does is allow the few people who have a massive investment in the game to get a few extra alts and annoy a chunk of the players who are against the concept as a whole.

Well, i would have to agree with most of that i suppose.

[Barkloud]

Effort vs Reward - An XP boost while with friends doesn't help a lot of new players or people who want to level alts. The proper solution would have been to work on and streamline the old content. That would have taken away from other parts of the game which would mean either a later WoD or one with less new "stuff". With the boosts Blizzard gets to focus on the new stuff and new people are happy. The problem is that new people won't really be happy with just one 90 (free one) and the boost is too expensive for anyone who doesn't have a massive investment in the game which new players don't have so they will start with their 1 max level, level an alt to 20 or so before they get bored and then call it quits on the leveling. they might play with their max level for a bit but if they don't like the class they picked then they are stuffed. Something that could have been an enabler for new players is not because of the price. All it does is allow the few people who have a massive investment in the game to get a few extra alts and annoy a chunk of the players who are against the concept as a whole.

I do not think there are new players for WOW. At least not in America.

[Celista]

People using alts can take different paths for the alts which will keep the experience relatively fresh. Who cares if a new player doesn't see 4/5 of the content. They will see some more with an alt. It will make leveling alts far more interesting as there will be a number of players out in the world because leveling will be fun and worthwhile.

With a cheaper boost, players won't be seeing that content; they'll just do what they ended up doing for their alts what they did for their first character...saying "fuck it" after a few days of leveling and simply spending the $20-30 to boost to 90.

I'm totally down for Blizzard doing something to streamline leveling and making older content more relevant, I just don't think insta-90 boosts are the solution. XP pots for purchase might be a good alternative.

[Mormolyce]

Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".

That's not a solution, it still takes new players weeks if not months to level, and the game is max level.

[Jokerfiend]

The reason why the boosts exists is because the age of the game has made the leveling process fundimentally flawed. It's not fun, it's grindy and boring. The majority of people supporting the boosts would happily accept a streamlined leveling process instead. Right now, there is no alternative to the hell that is leveling. Until you start a new account and try and level to max level without any of the heirlooms, gold and other guild boosts, you won't realisically understand how bad it really is.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I'm in the process of leveling 0-90. No heirlooms or boosting tech of any kind. I just hit lvl 70, with about 10 hours play time. That is high, because I have left the game to auto log-out SEVERAL times.

It isn't bad, queue LFG, spam AOE, get easy loot, and continue questing. I was lvl 70 before I cleared Zangarmarsh and expect to hit lvl 80 by Saturday night. If it's taken you a month and a half to level 90 then I'm sorry.

As far as the rest of your post goes...

Now from a brand new player perspective, yeah that would be a daunting task. Then again, name an MMO out for 10 years that wouldn't be a migraine? You have to understand that the market is blown out, like Sasha Grey's O-ring.

This isn't 2005 when Thottbott barely worked, or it took 10+ days played to reach max level. The game is FAR easier, FAR more streamlined, and FAR more accessible then it ever has been. It's only getting better.

Blizzard is saying if you want premium content for max levels. Then you are going to have to forgo a more streamlined level process. Because they aren't going to give us both. So are you willing to sacrifice another expansion for updated questing? Or are you willing to deal with the band-aid fixes for the long run? I for one am willing to deal with the band-aid fixes.

If you think WoW is even remotely awful, I challenge you to max out skill points in Ultima Online. Good luck.

[Ordinator]

That's not a solution, it still takes new players weeks if not months to level, and the game is max level.

Not to everyone. And in a lot of ways leveling is the exact same thing as max level. Questing, dungeons, PvP is all part of leveling just as it is max level. One thing i attribute making leveling so boring is the heirlooms. In a game revolving around upgrading gear, when you make that gear for every slot stagnant for 85 levels, it does get awfully boring, and that's just to get the XP boost. The XP boost needs to be implemented in another way so leveling is more than just questing in the exact same gear from level 1.

There are also so many different methods of leveling i don't really get the "it's unbearably boring" complaint. It used to be just quests, considering dungeons were hard to put together at low levels, and battlegrounds gave no XP. But thats not the case anymore. That means you can level while questing, doing dungeons, and battleground, which I myself do variations of constantly while leveling (throwing in as much world PvP as possible is always fun as well). Also if you notice all of those things are what max level is comprised of anyway. So why would you pay a exorbitant amount of money just to rush to doing the same exact thing.

[Celista]

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I'm in the process of leveling 0-90. No heirlooms or boosting tech of any kind. I just hit lvl 70, with about 10 hours play time. That is high, because I have left the game to auto log-out SEVERAL times.

It isn't bad, queue LFG, spam AOE, get easy loot, and continue questing. I was lvl 70 before I cleared Zangarmarsh and expect to hit lvl 80 by Saturday night. If it's taken you a month and a half to level 90 then I'm sorry.

As far as the rest of your post goes...

Now from a brand new player perspective, yeah that would be a daunting task. Then again, name an MMO out for 10 years that wouldn't be a migraine? You have to understand that the market is blown out, like Sasha Grey's O-ring.

This isn't 2005 when Thottbott barely worked, or it took 10+ days played to reach max level. The game is FAR easier, FAR more streamlined, and FAR more accessible then it ever has been. It's only getting better.

Blizzard is saying if you want premium content for max levels. Then you are going to have to forgo a more streamlined level process. Because they aren't going to give us both. So are you willing to sacrifice another expansion for updated questing? Or are you willing to deal with the band-aid fixes for the long run? I for one am willing to deal with the band-aid fixes.

If you think WoW is even remotely awful, I challenge you to max out skill points in Ultima Online. Good luck.

The first time I leveled a character, I think it took me 3-4 months to get to level cap. This was back when the level cap was 70, and it was my first mmo.

I'm willing to admit that I might have been ridiculously slow at leveling.

[Gray_Matter]

With a cheaper boost, players won't be seeing that content; they'll just do what they ended up doing for their alts what they did for their first character...saying "fuck it" after a few days of leveling and simply spending the $20-30 to boost to 90.

I'm totally down for Blizzard doing something to streamline leveling and making older content more relevant, I just don't think insta-90 boosts are the solution. XP pots for purchase might be a good alternative.

They have to do one or the other otherwise the barrier for new players just keeps getting bigger and the whole alt experience gets worse.

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I disagree wholeheartedly.

I'm in the process of leveling 0-90. No heirlooms or boosting tech of any kind. I just hit lvl 70, with about 10 hours play time. That is high, because I have left the game to auto log-out SEVERAL times.

It isn't bad, queue LFG, spam AOE, get easy loot, and continue questing. I was lvl 70 before I cleared Zangarmarsh and expect to hit lvl 80 by Saturday night. If it's taken you a month and a half to level 90 then I'm sorry.

I am sorry but I don't buy that (10 hours to 70). There are things that take time, moving between levels, getting gold for flying, bags, AH visits, etc. Without RAF, or any other boosts I can't see how that's possible. Even the power-leveling guys take 3-4 days to level a character to 80. That said the leveling process gets slower as you go.

[xcess]

No, it doesn't affect you. It might bother you but it doesn't affect you.

The reason why the boosts exists is because the age of the game has made the leveling process fundimentally flawed. It's not fun, it's grindy and boring. The majority of people supporting the boosts would happily accept a streamlined leveling process instead. Right now, there is no alternative to the hell that is leveling. Until you start a new account and try and level to max level without any of the heirlooms, gold and other guild boosts, you won't realisically understand how bad it really is.

Its not fun playing by yourself anyway which new ppl will find out when they get to max level. Low leveling is not broken its the ppl. If you don't like levelling no matter what they come up with wont fix it, some ppl wont like lvling 90 - 100 right from the start but they have to force themselves if they want to do end game content. Some ppl still like levelling after 10 years and they have prolly 50 toons. All aspects of the game will get boring for ppl after a while why do you think we get new raids. People say they loved ICC and Uldrar but I bet some are sick of them now. Its the same as levelling why aren't ppl complaning with killing 10 boars on Azeroth vs 10 boars in Dreanor 2.0? Because they looks different ?

[Surfd]

It doesn't matter if newer players with a little bit of $$ NEVER have to quest through 9 years worth of lore? That's a little depressing, even to me.

ROTFL. Seriously. Who, even out of completely fresh, 100% new players starting their first level 1, is going to quest through 9 years of lore in their first shot? Short of someone so obsessive-compulsive that they probably should seek medical help, the answer is nobody. Even a fresh newbie stepping foot into WoW for the first time is only going to see about 15% of the available "lore" when they quest to 90 for the first time. Even without heirlooms and guild perks, just following the standard leveling path and moving on when quests turn grey would still see you skipping about 60-70% of level 1-60 content, about 50% of TBC, 50% of Wrath, and 40% of Cata. Considering there will probably be another EXP scale adjustment when WoD comes out, you will probably be able to skip 30-40% of Mists too. And then you have to account for the fact that that is only HALF the lore, since you are also skipping everything as seen from the viewpoint of the opposing faction.

Things like the Loremaster achievement exist for exactly this reason. There is literally nothing stopping them from exploring all that lore at their convenience and leasure after they hit 90 (by whatever method they chose to use). This is WoW, not some linear action game like Super Mario or God of War. Boosting to 90 does not somehow magically prevent you from seeing everything you byassed like paying to skip to World 9-3 would in Mario.....