WoD Dev Interviews, Flying in Draenor, Hearthsteed Colors, Mar 11 Hotfixes, Garrison

[Deleted]

Keep flying on PvE realms.
Remove flying from PvP/RP-PVP realms.

And in a perfect world, give selected PVP / PVE realms a free transfer when the pre-expansion patch hits the fan.

World is saved.

From PvE perspective it is understandable if people just want to do their own things as fast as possible. Non-flying zone hinders what PvE focused players (daily doers, gatherers..) are trying to achieve.
From PvP perspective, flying mounts just hinder everything PvP realms are meant for. Which is what this "nostalgia crowd" is crying for.

[Deleted]

For you that mean some couple hundred lost dollars that will not apear on the statistic "did they love the no flying ideea or not".

And actually you lost those money with your "brilliant ideea".

And they are getting my sub fee back and I will buy the xpac because I like how they are fixing the crap that MoP brought (not just flying included). So this goes 2 ways.

On an off-topic, anyone else completely unenthusiastic about garrisons? Just seems like another farm with a built-in goldsink.

Same with pet battles, its an addition to the game I do not care at all.

[Kaleredar]

You had to quit playing at Wrath if you're that decided about it, remember cold weather flying? Was a pretty big thing back in the day.

You also could fly before max level. And you could get loaner mounts to level in storm peaks and Icecrown (which you actually needed)

If we look back flying only worked out as a selling point for TBC. You were years in this world walking the ground, but now you could fly! Awesome!

Yeah it's been pretty awesome for the majority of the game's existence.

But now people like you are crying that flying (probably temporarily because of all the cry) disappears from the game, they only think about ''IWANT TOFLYBUT NOWFLYINGISGONEEEEE GIMME MY FLYING BACK I DON'T LIKE CHANGEEEEE''. And you aren't considering the positives like you feel like you're actually on an adventure, something where the game is all about remember?

Never quite felt like I was on "an adventure" on the timeless isle of isle of the thunder king or molten front or any of that jazz any moreso than I did places I could fly.

And who are you to say "YOU'RE NOT FEELING RIGHT IN THIS GAME!"

Instead of min-maxing everything and fly the shortest route to your herbs which you can spot with your addons and then log back out in 20 minutes before someone had even the chance to bump onto you ingame and you actually had some interaction with.

Maybe I like doing that.

The only "interactions" I've had with players as of lately on the "no flying" areas is waiting a few seconds so they aggro mobs instead of me we're both trying to run past, or destroying poorly geared players for bloody coins repeatedly.

I haven't been goaded to "become bestest buddies" with the random people I see.

Remember, where the game is all about? Interaction with other players, and that's what's going to happen with WoD.

I get my interaction with other people in raids and dungeons and BGs.

My interaction with people in the current "no-flying" areas, or when leveling up to max level, or even back on old Azeroth, don't match up to anything you're saying they supposedly did. I never relied or met up with people for anything that I wouldn't have required their help with anyway; i.e, challenging rare spawns or farming that ungodly number of yaungol for Shaohao rep which, frankly, wouldn't have been made any "less enjoyable" (as laughable as that thought is in regards to the latter) by flying mounts.

Everyone back on land again, huge amounts of players on the ground spread across the continent where everywhere is something to do.

"Everywhere is something to do" actually doesn't last very long for blizzard. I don't consider camping out and waiting on some rarespawn or constantly running between rarespawn points "waiting for the 'something' to happen'" to be adequate justification, seeing as I did that while on a flying mount while hunting for the Time-lost proto-drake AND Aeonaxx.

Instead of having an empty ground and look at the sky and see 10 people AFK on their flying mount.

If what people choose to do effects the way you enjoy the game, that's really a personal problem for you.

The more I talk about this the more I respect Blizzard for making this decision. And the more I think how stupid it is this large amount still don't get it, or don't want to get it. Or just don't like interacting with other players like it once was. Or just don't like change. Probably the last now I think about it.

Change that comes at the effect of removing the way people like to play by saying "no you're not playing right, you should have fun this way" is not "good" change. And as that happens to conflict with how I LIKE to play the game, you're damn right I'm not going to lay down for that.

You might as well be complaining that they should remove LFD and LFR and make everyone just sit in trade chat to form groups because it was "a more meaningful experience" back when you had to do things like that. Can't tell you a single person I ever manually formed a group with back in the day. Never made a note of them.

[Seditian]

Hahaha, can't believe how many adults are crying like their fucking house is burning down. I'll enjoy ganking each and every one of you. It's just a game, get over it.

[Deleted]

You might as well be complaining that they should remove LFD and LFR and make everyone just sit in trade chat to form groups because it was "a more meaningful experience" back when you had to do things like that. Can't tell you a single person I ever manually formed a group with back in the day. Never made a note of them.

Don't get me started on LFG system.

[Kaleredar]

Don't get me started on LFG system.

Heh, I'd recommend against speaking your mind about that. The mindless droves that whine about the existence of flying mounts aren't so quick to conform to that talking point as well. You'll lose some supporters.

[tru]

its a way to "force" you to see content at a slower pace. if you think about it its quite smart it will take longer to do pretty much EVERYTHING in the game with no flying. They can extend content and give themselves more time for 6.1

[Seditian]

You also could fly before max level. And you could get loaner mounts to level in storm peaks and Icecrown (which you actually needed)



Yeah it's been pretty awesome for the majority of the game's existence.



Never quite felt like I was on "an adventure" on the timeless isle of isle of the thunder king or molten front or any of that jazz any moreso than I did places I could fly.

And who are you to say "YOU'RE NOT FEELING RIGHT IN THIS GAME!"



Maybe I like doing that.

The only "interactions" I've had with players as of lately on the "no flying" areas is waiting a few seconds so they aggro mobs instead of me we're both trying to run past, or destroying poorly geared players for bloody coins repeatedly.

I haven't been goaded to "become bestest buddies" with the random people I see.



I get my interaction with other people in raids and dungeons and BGs.

My interaction with people in the current "no-flying" areas, or when leveling up to max level, or even back on old Azeroth, don't match up to anything you're saying they supposedly did. I never relied or met up with people for anything that I wouldn't have required their help with anyway; i.e, challenging rare spawns or farming that ungodly number of yaungol for Shaohao rep which, frankly, wouldn't have been made any "less enjoyable" (as laughable as that thought is in regards to the latter) by flying mounts.



"Everywhere is something to do" actually doesn't last very long for blizzard. I don't consider camping out and waiting on some rarespawn or constantly running between rarespawn points "waiting for the 'something' to happen'" to be adequate justification, seeing as I did that while on a flying mount while hunting for the Time-lost proto-drake AND Aeonaxx.



If what people choose to do effects the way you enjoy the game, that's really a personal problem for you.



Change that comes at the effect of removing the way people like to play by saying "no you're not playing right, you should have fun this way" is not "good" change. And as that happens to conflict with how I LIKE to play the game, you're damn right I'm not going to lay down for that.

You might as well be complaining that they should remove LFD and LFR and make everyone just sit in trade chat to form groups because it was "a more meaningful experience" back when you had to do things like that. Can't tell you a single person I ever manually formed a group with back in the day. Never made a note of them.

Honestly, you sound like someone who's seriously lacking some very basic social skills. It really just sounds like you play a single-player RPG and treat everyone as NPC's whenever you "need" them. Guess what? In hopefully about half a year now, you'll be playing the game wrong, indeed. Know why? Because you cannot fly anymore, if you're still flying, you're playing the game wrong.

I honestly hope they stay away from flying mounts forever. They can do so much more with this world if they keep everyone grounded. I've made some big posts about how/why I think keeping ground mounts is a good thing, I can't be arsed to do so in every single thread that pops up with this subject, though. The point is: if you cannot see the potential of a ground mount only in this game, you're really narrow minded.

[Deleted]

its a way to "force" you to see content at a slower pace. if you think about it its quite smart it will take longer to do pretty much EVERYTHING in the game with no flying. They can extend content and give themselves more time for 6.1

The problem is that they are not able to force me to do nothing.
Except to don't buy the expansion , and put my money in others games .

No point of qq on forums all the day guys, hit them in the pocket , the voting with the wallet/creditcard is the way to disagree with every stupid company who think it know better then their customers what those want .



You like their ideea ? Very good . How about to pay more on the expansion to compensate for the money I don't put there anymore.
Oh wait , you will already do this , 50 euro expansion instead of 40 . We won't be missed , right ?

[Deleted]

Heh, I'd recommend against speaking your mind about that. The mindless droves that whine about the existence of flying mounts aren't so quick to conform to that talking point as well. You'll lose some supporters.

No offence, but judging from your posts... you really have some personality problems mate.
Hope you're a bit different irl.

[XyroN]

I like the "no flying throughout the expansion" idea very much.

I am happy to see this brought up and looking forward to seeing these changes implemented in WoD.

[Kaleredar]

Honestly, you sound like someone who's seriously lacking some very basic social skills.

My social skills are just lovely. I get along fantastically with my guild and am very polite to other people in BGs and Raids.

It really just sounds like you play a single-player RPG and treat everyone as NPC's whenever you "need" them.

If you want to get all "through the looking glass," everyone does that in some way, shape or form anyway. I make a point not to rely on people in this game for anything beyond raids/BGs that I don't absolutely need them for. Staking your gameplay around inconveniencing other people isn't exactly "polite."

Guess what? In hopefully about half a year now, you'll be playing the game wrong, indeed.

Ooh, getting touchy, are we?

Your claim is doubtful, seeing as I mainly do things like raid or do battlegrounds, which, along with my class and my ability to play my class, probably aren't going to be unilaterally changed. There's no real content in the world. The timeless isle did little to change that, and I see very little Blizzard can do to add to it in any way that would be curtailed by flying mounts. Beyond my completionist streak and the desire to acquire more mounts/occasionally pets and doing activities pursuant to those ends, I really don't travel out into the world. (Am I going to run around aimlessly and kill random things "for the life experience?") And when I'm doing mindless chores like killing bears for their asses for daily quests or collecting umpteen shiny rocks or waiting for rares to spawn, like on the timeless isle, I could really give a rat's ass if some people supposedly think such banal things are "more fulfilling" from the ground when all I can see is that they're more time-consuming.

Know why? Because you cannot fly anymore, if you're still flying, you're playing the game wrong.

You might have thought your jab made some sort of poetic sense, but it really doesn't...

I honestly hope they stay away from flying mounts forever. They can do so much more with this world if they keep everyone grounded. I've made some big posts about how/why I think keeping ground mounts is a good thing, I can't be arsed to do so in every single thread that pops up with this subject, though. The point is: if you cannot see the potential of a ground mount only in this game, you're really narrow minded.

No potential that couldn't easily be done with flying mounts, for the two VERY simple reasons I described above. But I'll relist them for posterity.

Either 1) Dynamic events are something that you choose to do. Which means that the existence of flying is irrelevant. If you're going to ignore it, you're going to ignore it. If you're going to do it, you're going to drop out of the sky and do it. I have seen nothing on the timeless isle, isle of thunder, isle of giants, or any of the other "no-fly zones" Blizzard has concocted that leads me to believe otherwise. All of the "dynamic events" in any of these situations are literally just fancy rarespawns and a few gimmicky timed events or jumping puzzles that could easily be achieved without "flying mounts ruining them" by putting those events within indoor areas or disallowing flying for the duration of said timed event or gimicky puzzle. To which I reiterate, the broader existence of flying doesn't impact these at all.

or 2) Players are thrust into Dynamic events. This is the only thing in which flying mounts would matter, and, frankly, is just annoying. It encourages players to avoid areas they know these things happen in or take undue measures to avoid them. "Charging Bridge yaungol" comes to mind. And frankly, you shouldn't be designing a game around "which obstacles people prefer to do the least."


You can argue for things like "world PvP" but even that only affects a specific type of server and is greatly hindered by the ever-problematic notion of massive server imbalance and that no real rewards exist for world PvP, which is why it took a massive hit when battlegrounds were introduced back in Vanilla WoW. An argument hindered even further by the existence of a PvP zone in WoD which will probably be no-flying during battles.

[Deleted]

I like the "no flying throughout the expansion" idea very much.

Good to you . And you will like it with your credit-card soon . Enjoy your future more expansive payments toward Blizzard to compensate for the guys who will quit.
Time to be a good fanboy and be milked for more money by your dady Blizzard .

[Katharine]

World of Warcraft obviously attracted people it shouldn't have. This is made obvious whenever someone says that not being able to fly in a fantasy game is a good idea.

[SkyTides]

really dont see what the problem is with keeping the MoP model - grounded while you level, fly when you max. I'm fine with levelling on the ground, especially if Draenor is like one big Timeless Isle, Im sure lots of people appreciate the scenery fromt he ground, but once you hit max level its great to see it all froma new perspective - Take Jade forest, I find new little nooks and crannies every time I fly through there its great. And how is Blizz going to gauge players' reaction to no flying? Only checking official forums? Here?

[Seditian]

Good to you . And you will like it with your credit-card soon . Enjoy your future more expansive payments toward Blizzard to compensate for the guys who will quit.
Time to be a good fanboy and be milked for more money by your dady Blizzard .

You do realize that either a) enough people quit who give "No flying is bullshit" as reason, so they enable flying again. Or b) They don't give a fuck, because it saves them a lot of development time and thus don't care to lose a few hundred thousand subscribers. Yes, only a few hundred thousand, because people quitting over this most likely already wanted to quit, just needed a little extra push to do so.

- - - Updated - - -

really dont see what the problem is with keeping the MoP model - grounded while you level, fly when you max. I'm fine with levelling on the ground, especially if Draenor is like one big Timeless Isle, Im sure lots of people appreciate the scenery fromt he ground, but once you hit max level its great to see it all froma new perspective - Take Jade forest, I find new little nooks and crannies every time I fly through there its great. And how is Blizz going to gauge players' reaction to no flying? Only checking official forums? Here?

I'd say either people who give it as a reason when unsubscribing, or a very large outcry. I doubt the latter will help though, you're still paying them so why would they care?

[Sorayiel]

I'm okay with not being able to fly while leveling. However, I was eager to get flying, because there were so many things and little jokes hidden on high places ( for example: check the tops of the mountains throughout the Jade Forest, or the Giant Shrooms in Zangarmarsh ), that I was really excited to finally fly over there and have a look. Also, all this complaint about people not appreciating the landscape: I for one love to enjoy the world while flying through it. Spot something in the distance, fly towards it and be overwhelmed by the general picture. Black Temple for example. Riding towards it: "meh, nice". Flying towards it: " Holy shit, look at that!" In a nutshell, I think they're missing out on opportunities if they decide to not let us fly at all in Draenor.

Edit: Some of us invested quite some time to get a beautiful flying mount, and they would want us to spend the majority of our time in Draenor. Hell nope.

[Kaleredar]

I'd say either people who give it as a reason when unsubscribing, or a very large outcry. I doubt the latter will help though, you're still paying them so why would they care?

For the same reason they greatly cut back on daily quests, removed daily-quest attunements, made lesser charms piss-easy to acquire, and nerfed heroic dungeons into oblivion. I actually didn't care about any of these things in their more time-consuming manifestations, because I chose to do them, but other players obviously did. It should be apparent that all of Blizzard's attempts to make things less efficient, more time consuming, and gated as of lately have been swiftly reverted.

I'm okay with not being able to fly while leveling. However, I was eager to get flying, because there were so many things and little jokes hidden on high places ( for example: check the tops of the mountains throughout the Jade Forest, or the Giant Shrooms in Zangarmarsh ), that I was really excited to finally fly over there and have a look. Also, all this complaint about people not appreciating the landscape: I for one love to enjoy the world while flying through it. Spot something in the distance, fly towards it and be overwhelmed by the general picture. Black Temple for example. Riding towards it: "meh, nice". Flying towards it: " Holy shit, look at that!" In a nutshell, I think they're missing out on opportunities if they decide to not let us fly at all in Draenor.

It goes beyond that. Consider that they designed these zones without flying in mind. Come the time they actually give us flying back, the zones will TRULY be trivialized because they designed them to be compact to compensate.

[Seditian]

My social skills are just lovely. I get along fantastically with my guild and am very polite to other people in BGs and Raids.

Good to hear it, apparently you're a different person on the forums.

If you want to get all "through the looking glass," everyone does that in some way, shape or form anyway. I make a point not to rely on people in this game for anything beyond raids/BGs that I don't absolutely need them for. Staking your gameplay around inconveniencing other people isn't exactly "polite."

See and this is why I pointed it out. Relying on people isn't a bad thing, hell it makes people easier to replace if the inevitable happens: they grow bored of the game. Suddenly you cannot raid anymore, because you didn't have anyone as back up.

Ooh, getting touchy, are we?

Your claim is doubtful, seeing as I mainly do things like raid or do battlegrounds, which, along with my class and my ability to play my class, probably aren't going to be unilaterally changed. There's no real content in the world. The timeless isle did little to change that, and I see very little Blizzard can do to add to it in any way that would be curtailed by flying mounts. Beyond my completionist streak and the desire to acquire more mounts/occasionally pets and doing activities pursuant to those ends, I really don't travel out into the world. (Am I going to run around aimlessly and kill random things "for the life experience?") And when I'm doing mindless chores like killing bears for their asses for daily quests or collecting umpteen shiny rocks or waiting for rares to spawn, like on the timeless isle, I could really give a rat's ass if some people supposedly think such banal things are "more fulfilling" from the ground when all I can see is that they're more time-consuming.

I'm not getting touchy, I'm just saying it's a welcome change, after seven years it's very refreshing to see that Blizzard is finally growing a pair again and completely changing stuff and test it out, even though it might cost them a lot of subscribers (I'm looking at the ability bloat as well).

You might have thought your jab made some sort of poetic sense, but it really doesn't...

I'm not a poetic nor do I try to be.

No potential that couldn't easily be done with flying mounts, for the two VERY simple reasons I described above. But I'll relist them for posterity.

Either 1) Dynamic events are something that you choose to do. Which means that the existence of flying is irrelevant. If you're going to ignore it, you're going to ignore it. If you're going to do it, you're going to drop out of the sky and do it. I have seen nothing on the timeless isle, isle of thunder, isle of giants, or any of the other "no-fly zones" Blizzard has concocted that leads me to believe otherwise. All of the "dynamic events" in any of these situations are literally just fancy rarespawns and a few gimmicky timed events or jumping puzzles that could easily be achieved without "flying mounts ruining them" by putting those events within indoor areas or disallowing flying for the duration of said timed event or gimicky puzzle. To which I reiterate, the broader existence of flying doesn't impact these at all.

or 2) Players are thrust into Dynamic events. This is the only thing in which flying mounts would matter, and, frankly, is just annoying. It encourages players to avoid areas they know these things happen in or take undue measures to avoid them. "Charging Bridge yaungol" comes to mind. And frankly, you shouldn't be designing a game around "which obstacles people prefer to do the least."

I agree that Blizzard really isn't good in creating dynamic events, but do keep in mind that Timeless Isle is only for low-level geared people and achievement "whores" or reputation "whores". Warlords of Draenor will be home for everyone, and thus charging that bridge isn't so dangerous anymore, because there's 40 people instead of 5.

You can argue for things like "world PvP" but even that only affects a specific type of server and is greatly hindered by the ever-problematic notion of massive server imbalance and that no real rewards exist for world PvP, which is why it took a massive hit when battlegrounds were introduced back in Vanilla WoW. An argument hindered even further by the existence of a PvP zone in WoD which will probably be no-flying during battles.

I honestly think at this point it's best to keep no-flying forever. But only on PvP realms, or maybe even specific PvP realms. Keep flying enabled on PvE realms after they leveled first. On PvP realms, it was very annoying that max levels were already able to fly in Pandaria, while you couldn't as a leveler. Sure, it's a PvP realm and I don't really mind getting corpse camped for an hour or two once in a while, but 77% resilience vs 40% resilience and no flying vs flying makes it literally impossible to kill the ganker and to get away as well. Now, they said they wanted to fix the immense power a higher level player has over a lower level player. But they also specifically stated that once a max level player is out to get you, you're screwed.

So yeah, on a PvP realm, it would be very awesome to see the no-flying experiment to be successful and be permanent. It's also a very good way to meet friends, hell, I got several Alliance (I'm Horde) on my friends list because we had a nice fight in Hellfire Peninsula, I talk to them every day. Yet another reason why you shouldn't see people purely to get you from A to B, you won't make any friends.

[SkyTides]

There arent too many good MMOs where you have the ability to collect hundreds of cool mounts, fly around a beautiful world, with great music, so much to do, and also enjoy good gameplay. Its why I started playing. I get that people want more world PvP, but isnt there going to be a big PVP area in a later patch (Fahralon?) Like the new islands added in MoP were all no-flying. I guess waiting till the first patch for flying is OK, I'm just worried Blizz will decide to keep delaying it