1. #1901
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Arcane isn't Fel it just turns into it. It's not the same thing and for the final time.



    OFF-TOPIC
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  2. #1902
    The Lightbringer Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Fel is arcane. Druidic and shamanistic magic will never ever corrupt you. There's no source on this at all. There are a lot of example of arcane's corruptions. Before arguing on this point people need to know that Arcane is the source that could be manipulated into many types of magic. Fel,necromancy,fire,ice,time and more. All of these are fundamentally arcane. Druidism use the force of Azeroth and Shaman use elements from elemental spirits. Both of them do not use arcane.

    Oh and Necromancy IS arcane. http://wowpedia.org/The_Schools_of_A...c_-_Necromancy
    Well Shit... what about the original orc warlocks? Oh right they were shamans. Deep down, all magic goes back to the arcane.

  3. #1903
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Arcane isn't Fel it just turns into it. It's not the same thing and for the final time.



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    Yes, please make another thread to discuss the difference between High Elves and Blood Elves (and what not) to keep this thread about photoshop mock-ups of existing/new models into subraces. The Lore section is great for this kind of subject. I don't want to plow through a lore debate while wishing to see new pictures.

  4. #1904
    Bloodsail Admiral Psychotrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Well... forsakens are also canibals, also they could said that with a little bit of the power of the sunwell they got their sanity back (or at least part of it) -You know the Sunwell now is made of light, so is possible for it to cure somethings

    Also they look cool (not in game)


    The Dark Fallen could be part of the Forsaken, and no the dark fallen are not evil, they are as bad as the forsaken, no more no less...

    - - - Updated - - -



    I love the idea of felblood elves, but how will you explain to have Felblood elves paladin and priest (it could be explained the priest Felblood elves in the same way we have priest forsaken -Most of them shadow priests-)

    - - - Updated - - -



    The Blood elves will most like revolve around the light, even now the Sunwell use the light and no arcane magic anymore...

    Also it would be really cool but that will also make them an anty-horde race, why? Orcs (Green skin because they consumed fel magic), BE (Green eyes because they consumed fel magic), Forsaken (Ressurected using necromancy -dark magic-), Trolls (Base their culture around many types of spiritual magic, most of it needs the use of dark magic), and so on :P
    Who says every subrace needs to have every class? I think it'd be cool if some of them were different in this way and it would make sense.
    Some people really like flavor. Occasionally subsisting on nutrient paste just doesn't feel the same as eating a steak. I get that flavor isn't for everyone, but I doubt removing all cosmetic indicators from the game would be appealing either. Nobody want to log in, queue to fight modestly sized blue checked box boss #7, initiate combat using an attack sequence of abilities 1-7 with a 13 beat repeat coda intermittently, and collect item level 630 slot 7 gear either.

  5. #1905
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotrip View Post
    Who says every subrace needs to have every class? I think it'd be cool if some of them were different in this way and it would make sense.
    Yeah, you're right

  6. #1906
    The Patient Shadowtwili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    That will never happen, cause that's almost giving the horde 2 alliance races :S (It could happen with the Blood Elves)
    I know and allthough I don't play Forsaken or Sin'dorei, I would love that so much.

    Besides, canonically, the Forsaken Undead where formed by the Humans, Dwarves, Quel'dorei and Gnomes living in Lordaeron. Hence why there are no Forsaken Trolls, Orcs, Goblins or any other Eastern Kingdom race.

    For me, ideally, the subraces should/would be this:
    Humans - Quel'dorei, Vrykul(Tauren-sized).
    Dwarves - Dark Iron, Frostborne, Earthen, Iron Dwarves (+ Wildhammer Tattoo's).
    Gnomes - Leper, Mecha-Gnome.
    Kaldorei - Kaldorei Worgen, Furbolg (+Blue/Silver/Bronze glowing eyes for both Kaldorei genders).
    Draenei - Krokul, Lost Ones.
    (12 "sub"-species).

    Orc - Mag'har Orc, Black Orc, Red/Fel Orc, Ogre (unless they become their own race).
    Undead - Quel'dorei, Dwarves, Gnomes (using their player models).
    Shu'halo - Taun'ka, Yaungol.
    Jungle Troll - Forest Troll, Ice Troll.
    Sin'dorei - Wretched, FelBlood Elves.
    Goblin - Gilgoblin, Pygmy, Hobgoblin.
    (14 "Sub"-species).

    I take the imbalance for granted!

    Besides, most of them can be added with way less hassle and keeping within the current bounderies of Lore, how hard is it to imagine a Tribe or two of Yaungol joining the Horde? Or some Lost Ones joining the Draenei (there was a quest where you infiltrated a Lost One Temple and they showed themselves to be quite intelligent)>

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotrip View Post
    Who says every subrace needs to have every class? I think it'd be cool if some of them were different in this way and it would make sense.
    I agree!

  7. #1907
    Hold up, physicality wise, what is the difference between a Blood Elf Death Knight and a San'layn? Both are Blood Elves who were raised from death by the Lich King and granted cool undead powers. The only difference is that they belong to different factions within the Scourge and one was able to break free while the other was chained the the LK's will. Any argument towards San'layn not being accepted into the Horde, for whatever reasons such as the Sunwell, Blood Elf's not accepting them, etc, can also be applied to Blood Elf Death Knights.
    You just lost The Game

  8. #1908
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    Hold up, physicality wise, what is the difference between a Blood Elf Death Knight and a San'layn? Both are Blood Elves who were raised from death by the Lich King and granted cool undead powers. The only difference is that they belong to different factions within the Scourge and one was able to break free while the other was chained the the LK's will. Any argument towards San'layn not being accepted into the Horde, for whatever reasons such as the Sunwell, Blood Elf's not accepting them, etc, can also be applied to Blood Elf Death Knights.
    As i said before is really easy to accept them, the problem is if they are forsaken, sooner or later they will need to "procreate" and we know that Forsakens use Valkyrs, so they will have to ressurect Blood Elfs and in the Siege of Orgrimmar Lorthemar said pretty clearly that he don't want Sylvanas to touch the corpse of his people

  9. #1909
    Dreadlord Kelthos's Avatar
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    I really don't think -every- race in the game needs or should get a sub-race. Put them where they make sense, but don't butcher lore just for the sake of giving them one.

    At the moment, these are what I think make sense from a lore perspective:

    Dwarves: Wildhammer, Dark Iron (could be accomplished simply by new skintones)
    Draenei: Broken
    Worgen: Kaldorei (Simply allow a Night Elf instead of a Human)

    Orc: Mag'har, Dragonmaw (Maybe Blackrock?)
    Tauren: Taunka
    Troll: Forest Troll (More muscle, more fur/hair)

  10. #1910
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthos View Post
    I really don't think -every- race in the game needs or should get a sub-race. Put them where they make sense, but don't butcher lore just for the sake of giving them one.

    At the moment, these are what I think make sense from a lore perspective:

    Dwarves: Wildhammer, Dark Iron (could be accomplished simply by new skintones)
    Draenei: Broken
    Worgen: Kaldorei (Simply allow a Night Elf instead of a Human)

    Orc: Mag'har, Dragonmaw (Maybe Blackrock?)
    Tauren: Taunka
    Troll: Forest Troll (More muscle, more fur/hair)
    Hmmm, i think all races should get a sub-race but ONLY if there's a possible subraces for them

    I completely agree with the one you have posted but i would add:

    Gnomes: Leper Gnomes (You came out of a city infected with radiation, so you could have come "infected" but with your mind still intact)

    Blood Elf: Wretched (Now we have the Sunwell again, they could said that they got "healed" by the sunwell but they still retain their wretched look -Make it look like the picture i posted a couple of post above-)

  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthos View Post
    I really don't think -every- race in the game needs or should get a sub-race. Put them where they make sense, but don't butcher lore just for the sake of giving them one.

    At the moment, these are what I think make sense from a lore perspective:

    Dwarves: Wildhammer, Dark Iron (could be accomplished simply by new skintones)
    Draenei: Broken
    Worgen: Kaldorei (Simply allow a Night Elf instead of a Human)

    Orc: Mag'har, Dragonmaw (Maybe Blackrock?)
    Tauren: Taunka
    Troll: Forest Troll (More muscle, more fur/hair)
    This is my list, there are some lorebendy bits but I think they would all be interesting additions. I know some of them aren't true 'sub-races' and instead are just customization options but in the end there really isn't a difference.

    Human: Azotha (Vrykul Themed), Dalaran (Wizard Features)
    Dwarf: Wildhammer, Dark Iron
    Gnome: Mechagnome, sane Leper Gnomes
    Night Elf: Shan'do (Leafy Hair, Antlers), Illidari (Tattoos, Green Eyes)
    Draenei: Auchenai (Void Themed), Broken (would require different model), Man'ari (massive lorebending)
    Worgen: Northrend Polar Worgen, Worgen of the Scythe (Night Elf Style)
    ---
    Orc: Mag'har, Blackrock
    Undead: High Elf, Wretched (Blood Elf)
    Tauren: Grimtotem, Taunka (Force no helm)
    Troll: Forest, Sand, Frost
    Blood Elf: San'layn (Forsaken), Felblood (lorebending)
    Goblin: Gilgoblin, Zombgoblin



    Imagine being a Leper Gnome Warlock, a Polar Worgen Death Knight, an Illidari Rogue, Mag'har Warrior, the possibilities are endless.
    You just lost The Game

  12. #1912
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    This is my list, there are some lorebendy bits but I think they would all be interesting additions. I know some of them aren't true 'sub-races' and instead are just customization options but in the end there really isn't a difference.

    Human: Azotha (Vrykul Themed), Dalaran (Wizard Features)
    Dwarf: Wildhammer, Dark Iron
    Gnome: Mechagnome, sane Leper Gnomes
    Night Elf: Shan'do (Leafy Hair, Antlers), Illidari (Tattoos, Green Eyes)
    Draenei: Auchenai (Void Themed), Broken (would require different model), Man'ari (massive lorebending)
    Worgen: Northrend Polar Worgen, Worgen of the Scythe (Night Elf Style)
    ---
    Orc: Mag'har, Blackrock
    Undead: High Elf, Wretched (Blood Elf)
    Tauren: Grimtotem, Taunka (Force no helm)
    Troll: Forest, Sand, Frost
    Blood Elf: San'layn (Forsaken), Felblood (lorebending)
    Goblin: Gilgoblin, Zombgoblin

    Imagine being a Leper Gnome Warlock, a Polar Worgen Death Knight, an Illidari Rogue, Mag'har Warrior, the possibilities are endless.
    I would like these, please. ._. Very much so, in fact. Especially the Alliance ones.

  13. #1913
    Dreadlord Kelthos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    This is my list, there are some lorebendy bits but I think they would all be interesting additions. I know some of them aren't true 'sub-races' and instead are just customization options but in the end there really isn't a difference.

    Human: Azotha (Vrykul Themed), Dalaran (Wizard Features)
    Dwarf: Wildhammer, Dark Iron
    Gnome: Mechagnome, sane Leper Gnomes
    Night Elf: Shan'do (Leafy Hair, Antlers), Illidari (Tattoos, Green Eyes)
    Draenei: Auchenai (Void Themed), Broken (would require different model), Man'ari (massive lorebending)
    Worgen: Northrend Polar Worgen, Worgen of the Scythe (Night Elf Style)
    ---
    Orc: Mag'har, Blackrock
    Undead: High Elf, Wretched (Blood Elf)
    Tauren: Grimtotem, Taunka (Force no helm)
    Troll: Forest, Sand, Frost
    Blood Elf: San'layn (Forsaken), Felblood (lorebending)
    Goblin: Gilgoblin, Zombgoblin



    Imagine being a Leper Gnome Warlock, a Polar Worgen Death Knight, an Illidari Rogue, Mag'har Warrior, the possibilities are endless.
    Hmm. Some interesting ones there. I'll go through and give my opinions on the suggestions.

    Humans: Perhaps add more facial hair/customization options to introduce greater ethnic diversity in the future. Don't see the point in making subraces for that.
    Dwarf: Agree!
    Gnome: Mechagnomes are constructs of the Titans, who I would imagine are staunchly neutral... not to mention I doubt they'd care about the Alliance or its affairs. Leper Gnomes are generally shown to have their minds addled, but I suppose it could work.
    Night Elf: Shan'do idea seems way too druid-focused to work for any other class. As cool as Illidari seem, I think they should just be saved for a Demon Hunter class if they ever make one.
    Draenei: I'm not sure what you mean by Void Themed. And I don't think there is any lore that mentions any void-themed Draenei. Broken would be a bit of work, but I think they make sense. And you're right, Man'ari would be a huge dump on lore. Leave them out!
    Worgen: Are there polar worgen different from normal worgen? Would they not just be worgen with white fur? Night Elf worgen have been portrayed in the comics and they have no discernible difference from Human worgen. I think just giving Worgen the option of being a Night Elf instead of a Human could accomplish this. If that's what you meant, sorry for the confusion!

    Orc: Agree!
    Undead: Perhaps add elf ears for the people who want it. Some Elves did die in Lordaeron around that time so it makes sense. Wretched are so few and far between I don't see that being a thing. Especially now that the Sunwell is restored and what few there were to begin with are likely now almost entirely wiped out.
    Tauren: I forgot Grimtotem. I do support them, Taunka as well.
    Troll: I am okay with Sand and Frost, I just left them out since they usually support the Zandalari and not the Horde.
    Blood Elf: If you want a San'layn, make a Blood Elf DK with the DK skins. Felblood are cool looking, but also a massive lore dump.
    Goblin: Gilgoblin maybe? I think it's another case of they are so few and far between it doesn't make sense. And Zombie Goblins are shown to be completely unintelligent beyond a desire for brains. Maybe add them as skin choices for Goblin DK's.

    Maybe I'm just stuck-up about lore, but I only think they should put a sub-race where A) It is an actual sub-race of the base race, and B) It makes total sense from a lore perspective.
    Last edited by Kelthos; 2014-03-13 at 07:57 PM.

  14. #1914
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post


    The Blood elves will most like revolve around the light, even now the Sunwell use the light and no arcane magic anymore...
    I don't believe anything of the sort was confirmed. The Sunwell was reignited and is a fusion of Light and arcane energies, not just Light.

    As for the San'layn, I will leave it to Blizzard to confirm their numbers etc. IMO, they are no less viable than DKs. Same re: felbloods.

    As for the lore, it is malleable, as the Sunwalkers proved, albeit rather badly...
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-03-13 at 08:13 PM.
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  15. #1915
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    I don't believe anything of the sort was confirmed. The Sunwell was reignited and is a fusion of Light and arcane energies, not just Light.

    As for the San'layn, I will leave it to Blizzard to confirm their numbers etc. IMO, they are no less viable than DKs. Same re: felbloods.

    As for the lore, it is malleable, as the Sunwalkers proved, albeit rather badly...
    Yeah, i checked and is true, now the Sunwell have a fusion of light and arcane energies

  16. #1916
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    more or less in this way, but for all race

    http://healbot.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/wings.png

    BZ already made ​​clear which will be the way of the blood elves his role in this exp will be on the light and the Naaru, I guess some friendship Draenei.

    most likely the army will light as representative race of the Alliance to draenei and elves to the horde.
    Funny thing. Blood Elves apparently have the genetic tendency to grow feathery wings when subject to mutation, if the Felbloods are any indicator.

  17. #1917
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthos View Post
    Hmm. Some interesting ones there. I'll go through and give my opinions on the suggestions.

    Humans: Perhaps add more facial hair/customization options to introduce greater ethnic diversity in the future. Don't see the point in making subraces for that.
    Dwarf: Agree!
    Gnome: Mechagnomes are constructs of the Titans, who I would imagine are staunchly neutral... not to mention I doubt they'd care about the Alliance or its affairs. Leper Gnomes are generally shown to have their minds addled, but I suppose it could work.
    Night Elf: Shan'do idea seems way too druid-focused to work for any other class. As cool as Illidari seem, I think they should just be saved for a Demon Hunter class if they ever make one.
    Draenei: I'm not sure what you mean by Void Themed. And I don't think there is any lore that mentions any void-themed Draenei. Broken would be a bit of work, but I think they make sense. And you're right, Man'ari would be a huge dump on lore. Leave them out!
    Worgen: Are there polar worgen different from normal worgen? Would they not just be worgen with white fur? Night Elf worgen have been portrayed in the comics and they have no discernible difference from Human worgen. I think just giving Worgen the option of being a Night Elf instead of a Human could accomplish this. If that's what you meant, sorry for the confusion!

    Orc: Agree!
    Undead: Perhaps add elf ears for the people who want it. Some Elves did die in Lordaeron around that time so it makes sense. Wretched are so few and far between I don't see that being a thing. Especially now that the Sunwell is restored and what few there were to begin with are likely now almost entirely wiped out.
    Tauren: I forgot Grimtotem. I do support them, Taunka as well.
    Troll: I am okay with Sand and Frost, I just left them out since they usually support the Zandalari and not the Horde.
    Blood Elf: If you want a San'layn, make a Blood Elf DK with the DK skins. Felblood are cool looking, but also a massive lore dump.
    Goblin: Gilgoblin maybe? I think it's another case of they are so few and far between it doesn't make sense. And Zombie Goblins are shown to be completely unintelligent beyond a desire for brains. Maybe add them as skin choices for Goblin DK's.

    Maybe I'm just stuck-up about lore, but I only think they should put a sub-race where A) It is an actual sub-race of the base race, and B) It makes total sense from a lore perspective.
    For the most part, all sub-races are jut customization features with cool lore attached to them. In the cases where we can't really get sub-races that makes sense, like the case is for Night Elves, Humans, Worgen, Draenei and Goblins, Blizzard could just compensate by adding additional customization features for us to mess with. I would much rather have proper beards for Humans than settle for sub-races that don't make any lore sense.
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  18. #1918
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    For the most part, all sub-races are jut customization features with cool lore attached to them. In the cases where we can't really get sub-races that makes sense, like the case is for Night Elves, Humans, Worgen, Draenei and Goblins, Blizzard could just compensate by adding additional customization features for us to mess with. I would much rather have proper beards for Humans than settle for sub-races that don't make any lore sense.
    Worgen, Draenei and (maybe) Night elves have options that make sense

    Worgen= Night elf (The original worgens that came to Gilneas were Night Elfs)

    Draenei = Broken (There are broken in the alliance since the Draenei came out)

    Night Elf = Highborne (They joined the alliance in cataclysm)

    Note: I agree about the rest
    Last edited by Maxilian; 2014-03-13 at 09:18 PM.

  19. #1919
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'm curious, would you guys be ok if subraces or some additional race options were available in the e-shop?
    Full races, no, but sub-race skins fall under the category of purely cosmetic customization options that don't affect gameplay so I wouldn't have a big issue with it. It wouldn't be any different than buying a skin on League for example.
    You just lost The Game

  20. #1920
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    I don't think 'small in number' ever stopped Blizzard from making a race playable or not. The Horde Goblins technically all were slaves on the same boat. Sylvanas accepting the San'layn into her Forsaken would make for some really interesting Undead v. Blood Elf relations, there would be no way Lorthemar would be cool with it and it would be awesome to watch.
    I usually would say the same, but they were created especially by the Lich King, they have nosferatu like features, and were only a small group who followed Kael'thas here. I imagine any would be dead now or under Bolvar's rule. Would be interesting to explore, they are not just undead elves, they have some unique physiology.
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