A great MMO cannot happen without a subscription and is a major reason WoW's on top

[Grogo]

A great MMO cannot happen without a subscription and is a major reason WoW's on top of the MMO world. It is a major reason but not the only main reason, timing and product is of course another consideration.

To keep a MMO with good fresh content takes money, to do it very well takes even more. The sort of money that only a subscriber base can fund.

Past experience has shown me, that when a game comes out with no subscriber base funds, using only in-game shops to fund the process...they are not that great. WoW has had the money to keep up on the content and quality.

When a MMO has to move away from their original subscription fee to free to play, that is when it is failing. I have been a critic of WoW at times with some of their choices but I like that they intend to keep that subscription fee going to maintain their game and that they are in a position to do so.

Once you move away from that, the game has failed.

[crakerjack]

I think it's just more about timing... WoW was a semi-clone of everquest and that's not just me hating... I switched from everquest to WoW because it was fairly similar. Right as everquest started to feel outdated, that's when WoW began to emerge and w/ no other MMORPG's on the market, it was able to take over. A game doesn't need a subscription base to be good, that's just not true... it can help, but you reduce the amount of people that'll play your game by a substantial amount. If WoW had come out in 2009 or even 2010, I don't think it would have been as successful as it was.

[Randec]

Does a great MMO need to charge for the original game, all the expansions, a subscription and have a cash shop?

What exactly do you get for your subscription? Blizzard says it's mainly customer support. I've paid a $15 dollar sub for almost a decade, that's well over a thousand dollars. I got ahold of a GM in game once, and lately I had to call and wait for 20 minutes on hold (on my cell). Those are the only 2 times I've really needed customer support. Well, besides tickets I canceled because they were taking waaaaay too long to go through.

Let me put it simply and be very frank with you. Your money and mine is lining people's pockets and being reinvested into other projects which you'll be charged for when they're released. That's right, they'll take your money and use it to develop all these new games, and then charge you again for them when they're released. That's why you pay a sub. So Blizzard can release a game in every genre, dominate the market, and monopolize the business.

[Gheld]

MMOs are just not what gamers want. It was a novel fad that started in the late 1990s, but yeah...

Take a game like Grand Theft Auto V. It's gross revenues within a single weekend of launch were like an entire year of what Blizzard could expect from WoW subs. Sure, players will only have purchased it once, but they also added an MMO style online component to the game, which is free to play (micro transaction in game currency for sale) and whatever way you decide to play it. Story mode, sand box style, MMO style, the game is fucking fun.

And it crippled it's launch revenues by not launching on the PC. This is console only, and Rockstar could basically buy Blizzard Entertainment with their GTA V proceeds if they wanted to.

Gamers want to buy a game once, and they want it all. And GTA V delivered that, and it's basically the most profitable anything ever made in the history of capitalism.

[Bakilorne]

We're paying for em to have great facilities and awesome statues.

Some of the content is amazing, other bits seem a bit eh. Personally it's still worth it for me.

I would have to agree that great MMOs cannot occur with a fairly large cash flow, primarily when it's parent companies will hack it once it gets too low.

[TheWindWalker]

I have to disagree simply because GW2 is doing fairly well. I prefer WoW for the most part, but GW2 can still be picked up months later and played "2 player" without having to pay anyone for the privilege of logging on.

[dashflash890]

Does a great MMO need to charge for the original game, all the expansions, a subscription and have a cash shop?

What exactly do you get for your subscription? Blizzard says it's mainly customer support. I've paid a $15 dollar sub for almost a decade, that's well over a thousand dollars. I got ahold of a GM in game once, and lately I had to call and wait for 20 minutes on hold (on my cell). Those are the only 2 times I've really needed customer support. Well, besides tickets I canceled because they were taking waaaaay too long to go through.

Let me put it simply and be very frank with you. Your money and mine is lining people's pockets and being reinvested into other projects which you'll be charged for when they're released. That's right, they'll take your money and use it to develop all these new games, and then charge you again for them when they're released. That's why you pay a sub. So Blizzard can release a game in every genre, dominate the market, and monopolize the business.

Pretty much what you said.

[Zstr]

you know how many people playing on privite wow servers which are a bit buggy but free, I'm myself spend lots of times on them, coz I couldn't afford subscription fee of it and insane price on early internet on 56k modems together in my 3rd world country as non-working teen, but game is worth to be played,
it's not about subscription, it's about quality and interesting franchise talented people at Blizzard always offers
all of their game are masterpieces from Lost viking, rock on roll racing on sega to latest diablo, starcraft, warcraft franchises

[Deadite]

To keep a MMO with good fresh content takes money, to do it very well takes even more. The sort of money that only a subscriber base can fund.

Past experience has shown me, that when a game comes out with no subscriber base funds, using only in-game shops to fund the process...they are not that great. WoW has had the money to keep up on the content and quality.

You would have a valid point if Blizzard did not make people wait absurdly long times for content. They make the most money but are pretty much dead last on content speed. They are a total joke compared to most games that have no sub fee. They are reaching for the stars again with WoD. Over a year with nothing added to the game. Dunno what you are smoking buddy...

[Rizendragon]

you know how many people playing on privite wow servers which are a bit buggy but free, I'm myself spend lots of times on them, coz I couldn't afford subscription fee of it and insane price on early internet on 56k modems together in my 3rd world country as non-working teen, but game is worth to be played,
it's not about subscription, it's about quality and interesting franchise talented people at Blizzard always offers
all of their game are masterpieces from Lost viking, rock on roll racing on sega to latest diablo, starcraft, warcraft franchises

I hope you understand that by playing on a private server you're basically throwing dirt in the faces of these "talented people" whose "games are masterpieces" because you aren't acknowledging their hard work by stealing their copyrighted material.

OT: I too believe that to have a successful game you need to have it be sub-based. It prevents the game from being micro-transaction hell and pay to win. WoW is starting down that terrible path of P2W though I'm afraid...

[zhero]

A great MMO cannot happen without a subscription and is a major reason WoW's on top of the MMO world. It is a major reason but not the only main reason, timing and product is of course another consideration.

To keep a MMO with good fresh content takes money, to do it very well takes even more. The sort of money that only a subscriber base can fund.

Past experience has shown me, that when a game comes out with no subscriber base funds, using only in-game shops to fund the process...they are not that great. WoW has had the money to keep up on the content and quality.

When a MMO has to move away from their original subscription fee to free to play, that is when it is failing. I have been a critic of WoW at times with some of their choices but I like that they intend to keep that subscription fee going to maintain their game and that they are in a position to do so.

Once you move away from that, the game has failed.

no, the subscription had absolutely nothing to do with WoW's success. Their success is attributed to the previous titles and being one of a few MMOs during its time.

[Sierra85]

the difference i find is largely polish and the ability to polish.

Most MMO's cannot compete with the sheer amount of work done within the wow universe and how polished it already is. A game has to come along and rival 10 years worth of development. It hasn't been done yet and i find it difficult to believe any game will be able to.

[Rizendragon]

You would have a valid point if Blizzard did not make people wait absurdly long times for content. They make the most money but are pretty much dead last on content speed. They are a total joke compared to most games that have no sub fee. They are reaching for the stars again with WoD. Over a year with nothing added to the game. Dunno what you are smoking buddy...

It's usually only once every 2 years this happens though. That I am ok with. There is a ton of content to go through by this point of the expansion. I haven't played another game that has been as bug-free as WoW is at launch. There are some that slip through or have unforeseeable issues attached, but overall the quality is second to none. There are only a handful of people that can truly say that the content is old and stale. Those are the heroic raiders that have HGarrosh on farm.

[Arewn]

This just isn't true. The reality before our eyes in the market plainly shows us it isn't true. Look around, you can even start looking at financial reports and see for yourself that an MMO doesn't need a sub fee to be top quality, and can do better without one.
WoW makes ludicrous profits, the amount of money it makes is so far removed from their development expenses that it's not even comparable. WoW is the exception, not the norm, and got to the top by the sheerest of timing based coincidence. Of course it had to be a great game for it to happen, but other great MMOs(some better then WoW) have come and passed since, and more will come that surpass it without gaining the same success.

[Rizendragon]

the difference i find is largely polish and the ability to polish.

Most MMO's cannot compete with the sheer amount of work done within the wow universe and how polished it already is. A game has to come along and rival 10 years worth of development. It hasn't been done yet and i find it difficult to believe any game will be able to.

I really try not to do this, but I slip up from time to time. I think that the one last game company that has a chance to make a dent is Bethesda with ESO. The lore is just as rich, polished, established, and familiar as Warcraft was when WoW was made. The business model is almost a carbon copy of Blizzards back in 2004 and the quality of the content seems pretty well done and relatively bug free for a new game. I won't label it as a WoW killer, but I will say that Blizzard should keep an eye on ESO at least until the game either takes off or fizzles out.

[Onomatopoeia]

I think WoW has skewed people perception of what makes a great and successful MMO, and by that I mean they base it on sub numbers. I mean theres people that say WoW sucks just because the sub numbers drop. As long as it can make money and keep enough people playing to not shut down, its doing good. LotR online isnt subbed base but is doing well and sticking around.

Besides what there are many subbed based MMOs that failed and either folded or went ftp, so that really hurts your argument. A great mmo is what makes a great mmo. If its good and fun enough, people will out money into it so the devs can get funds to keep it going.

[Traveler Voltin]

I really try not to do this, but I slip up from time to time. I think that the one last game company that has a chance to make a dent is Bethesda with ESO. The lore is just as rich, polished, established, and familiar as Warcraft was when WoW was made. The business model is almost a carbon copy of Blizzards back in 2004 and the quality of the content seems pretty well done and relatively bug free for a new game. I won't label it as a WoW killer, but I will say that Blizzard should keep an eye on ESO at least until the game either takes off or fizzles out.

ESO is going to fail like the rest. have you not been paying attention to what they have been doing and what others have said about it?

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[Deleted]

People have learned that with money, you can pretty much get anything. Paying and get something makes the quality of the item a lot better than paying nothing and get the same item for free. Because money make things better.

World of Warcraft must be the best thing around because you pay for it and continues to pay for.

[Deadite]

It's usually only once every 2 years this happens though. That I am ok with. There is a ton of content to go through by this point of the expansion. I haven't played another game that has been as bug-free as WoW is at launch. There are some that slip through or have unforeseeable issues attached, but overall the quality is second to none. There are only a handful of people that can truly say that the content is old and stale. Those are the heroic raiders that have HGarrosh on farm.

Back in the days of Vanguard and the like they released buggy shit but not so much these days. Most are pretty polished in my experience. I hope you are not trying to imply that wow was bug free on launch? If so [Neslon] HAHA [/Nelson]....

I find the bolded part funny as well. Heroic content is not new content. It is the same content only harder. That is why most people don't bother their arse with it. Most people don't even raid outside of LFR. Yeah i said most people. HOW DARE YOU SPEAK FOR THE MAJORITY!!!

While i am happy you are happy to wait a year for content i am not. Even the most die hard fans i know irl are finally sick of it. For me the normal 4-6 month content cycle is ripping the piss. They are minted at Blizzard. These are all minor points but the OP's conclusions are fallacious. The fact that Blizzard makes the most money but delivers the least amount of content proves this.

[Deleted]

You contradict yourself OP in your very first post. If timing and consideration is another consideration then perhaps subscription is not the most important thing at all? maybe? perhaps?