View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

Voters
1260. This poll is closed
  • 0%

    660 52.38%
  • 0-10%

    189 15.00%
  • 10-20%

    58 4.60%
  • 20-30%

    51 4.05%
  • 30-40%

    30 2.38%
  • 40-50%

    58 4.60%
  • 50-60%

    48 3.81%
  • 60-70%

    34 2.70%
  • 70-80%

    38 3.02%
  • 80-90%

    25 1.98%
  • 90-100%

    69 5.48%
  1. #2381
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    If filling item gaps was a valid avenue for discussion, wouldn't wand use be a priority? Every other weapon is used as more than a stat stick by some class. Item use gaps probably aren't a big issue when deciding on what class to make.
    Wands do not constitute an itemization gap, since they are both equippable and are commonly equipped as a primary weapon by 9 of the game's 33 specs. You're describing a gameplay niche, or a type of mechanic that is currently unused or underutilized. This particular niche used to be filled as well, by all three cloth classes, but stopped being so when mana mechanics changed to make it much more difficult to run out of mana and have nothing left to use but a wand. Now it's conceivable that Blizzard could introduce a class that brings the wand autoattack back as a major damage source, but this would not be filling an itemization gap. Indeed it would have its own inherent itemization problems, because like rogues the class would be reliant on the drop rate of one type of item, with no real fallbacks.

    This is not an issue which a class that could use, say, guns and crossbows would share.

    I do agree that it's probably not the major concern or the starting point of any discussion regarding which class is next when they do their brainstorming sessions, but I also think it is something that they think about. Balancing gear drop rates is historically a recurring concern which they have talked about numerous times, and they know that nobody likes it when the second gun drops and the group's only hunter doesn't want it. Much less the tenth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dudeness View Post
    Tinkers would be awesome..
    They would tie the character creation screen together, would they not?

  2. #2382
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    They would tie the character creation screen together, would they not?
    What do you mean by that? I think the Character Creation screen looks fine as it is. I don't get what kind 'tying' it needs.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #2383
    i think teriz is ignoring the fact that tinkers use the mechanical arms to quickly mass produce the bombs, rockets, etc. it would have to be a unique item slot only for tinkers. which wont happen.

    tinkers wont happen as a class
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  4. #2384
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Wands do not constitute an itemization gap, since they are both equippable and are commonly equipped as a primary weapon by 9 of the game's 33 specs. You're describing a gameplay niche, or a type of mechanic that is currently unused or underutilized. This particular niche used to be filled as well, by all three cloth classes, but stopped being so when mana mechanics changed to make it much more difficult to run out of mana and have nothing left to use but a wand. Now it's conceivable that Blizzard could introduce a class that brings the wand autoattack back as a major damage source, but this would not be filling an itemization gap. Indeed it would have its own inherent itemization problems, because like rogues the class would be reliant on the drop rate of one type of item, with no real fallbacks.

    This is not an issue which a class that could use, say, guns and crossbows would share.

    I do agree that it's probably not the major concern or the starting point of any discussion regarding which class is next when they do their brainstorming sessions, but I also think it is something that they think about. Balancing gear drop rates is historically a recurring concern which they have talked about numerous times, and they know that nobody likes it when the second gun drops and the group's only hunter doesn't want it. Much less the tenth.



    They would tie the character creation screen together, would they not?
    I was more pointing out that, as you say, itemization balance isn't that big a deal and basing much off of it is pretty goofy. Drops can be balanced on drop side of gameplay as easily as the usage side. When people bring up mail use as a selling point it's less compelling an argument than back in original WoW since the pool size for mail is large enough not to be an issue; not as bad as the int plate or int mail concerns that will be resolved in WoD at any rate.

    That aside, wand usage as a mechanic wouldn't need to face the same problems as daggers, since you could expand the hypothetical wand using class to any sort of ranged item, letting a wand be uniquely used as their autoattack without being their only option.

    Also, forced dagger for rogue sucks. Such an awful design decision.

    No, I have no idea what kind of class that would be (some sort of conjurer class? transmuting whatever ammunition into something larger or more potent?). Hypothetical and bordering on going off topic, probably best left alone.

  5. #2385
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Ok, then share your opinion with us. What of Illidan's abilities in HotS are more whymsical than the Gazzlowe hero unit?
    Viewing Gazlowe's abilities as whimsical is an opinion.


    We're saying there's no way Blizzard can design your 'mecha backpack' without severely obstructing player's view.
    Which is a pretty ridiculous argument, because Blizzard would be designing their mecha backpack regardless.


    Dozens of pictures were posted here already. You apparently failed to see each and every one of them
    None of which proves that blizzard can't design a backpack that doesn't obscure your view.

    I'm sorry, where does it say in that link that he's a demon? All I see is that he's a 'boss'. Care to show us where he's called a 'demon', please?
    You mean besides on the top where it says database, NPCs, Demons?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatecore View Post
    Lore wise they stole the spell, the same with spells from fire lands, bot, DS etc.
    Wonderful. Now please tell us why Blizzard gave the spell to Warlocks.

    None of those are Tinker abilities. Heck, they're not even abilities. They're items.

    Do you know what a straw man is? You said HOTS was cannon to wow. I proved how it was not
    Where did I say that HotS was cannon lore?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, it is. Otherwise we can say that 'Yogi the Bear' cartoons are connected to WoW because it has humans and talking bears.
    If Yogi Bear was owned by Blizzard and appeared in WoW, you'd have a point.

    It is not. It draws inspiration and some of their characters from WoW, just like Hearthstone draws inpiration from WoW, but they're not in-game connected. At all.
    There's a difference between drawing inspiration, and using the actual characters and abilities from the Warcraft franchise. However, its important to note that if you draw inspiration from something, you're also forming a connection with the source material.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-03-21 at 10:24 PM.

  6. #2386
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Viewing Gazlowe's abilities as whimsical is an opinion.
    I don't see how can someone look at its abilities and not think they're whymsical.

    Which is a pretty ridiculous argument, because Blizzard would be designing their mecha backpack regardless.
    If Blizzard makes a 'mecha backpack', which chances are pretty slim, it won't be anything like you envision it. At best, will be a cooldown, and be much smaller than you envision it.

    None of which proves that blizzard can't design a backpack that doesn't obscure your view.
    Irrelevant. We're not talking about Blizzard making a backpack. We're talking about your backpack you insist must exist as big as it is and be showing 24/7.

    Where did I say that HotS was cannon lore?
    Every time you argued Gazlowe is a Tinker because of its 'Heroes of the Storm' incarnation.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #2387
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    You think Illidan is whimsically designed? You sure have a strange opinion when you think Gazlowe is not whimsical yet Illidan is. But your opinion is your own, no matter how bizarre it may be.
    Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I never said any of that. What I'm saying is that viewing anything as whimsical is a matter of personal opinion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't see how can someone look at its abilities and not think they're whymsical.
    People have different opinions and tastes. Imagine that.

    If Blizzard makes a 'mecha backpack', which chances are pretty slim, it won't be anything like you envision it. At best, will be a cooldown, and be much smaller than you envision it.
    And you're basing that on what exactly?


    Irrelevant. We're not talking about Blizzard making a backpack. We're talking about your backpack you insist must exist as big as it is and be showing 24/7.
    And what's "my" backpack? The backpack that Blizzard designed already and could easily redesign?

    Every time you argued Gazlowe is a Tinker because of its 'Heroes of the Storm' incarnation.
    Arguing that Blizzard views Gazlowe as a Tinker isn't the same as saying that HotS is cannon lore.

  8. #2388
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And you're basing that on what exactly?
    Every single post of yours where we talk about how burly and cluttering said backpack would be.

    And what's "my" backpack? The backpack that Blizzard designed already and could easily redesign?
    A backpack Blizzard designed for a different game, not WoW, which was made solely to make the Hero unit stand out from amidst the dozens of other units since goblins are naturally small.

    Arguing that Blizzard views Gazlowe as a Tinker isn't the same as saying that HotS is cannon lore.
    Blizzard 'views' Gazlowe as a Tinker for HotS, not in WoW. After all, he has no mecha backpack back in Ratchet. For that same reason, Blizzard thinks Illidan is a druid in that game as well. Also, Blizzard also thinks that Uther wears Terran Medic Power Armor, too.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  9. #2389
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Every single post of yours where we talk about how burly and cluttering said backpack would be.
    Which is based on personal opinion. The backpack could just as easily be sleek and compact.

    A backpack Blizzard designed for a different game, not WoW, which was made solely to make the Hero unit stand out from amidst the dozens of other units since goblins are naturally small.
    And nothing prevents Blizzard from taking that concept and making it fit into a MMORPG game since the hammer tank concept provides a potentially unique gameplay experience, and allows Tinkers to stand out from existing classes. Two things Blizzard considers very important in class design.

    Blizzard 'views' Gazlowe as a Tinker for HotS, not in WoW. After all, he has no mecha backpack back in Ratchet.
    Not yet.

    For that same reason, Blizzard thinks Illidan is a druid in that game as well. Also, Blizzard also thinks that Uther wears Terran Medic Power Armor, too.
    Those are alternate skins, not the base skins. Also Gazlowe is a Tinker throughout HotS. Bad comparison is bad.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-03-21 at 10:39 PM.

  10. #2390
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which is based on personal opinion. The backpack could just as easily be sleek and compact.
    It would be unable to 'turn into a mech', then.

    And nothing prevents Blizzard from taking that concept and making it fit into a MMORPG game since the hammer tank concept provides a potentially unique gameplay experience, and allows Tinkers to stand out from existing classes. Two things Blizzard considers very important in class design.
    'Unique gameplay experience' is your opinion. For me, it doesn't fit WoW.

    Not yet.
    And he may never, ever have it, so saying 'not yet' is irrelevant.

    Those are alternate skins, not the base skins. Also Gazlowe is a Tinker throughout HotS. Bad comparison is bad.
    It's not 'bad comparison'. If you're using HotS as canon sources, so all of it is canon. You don't get to cherry-pick what is or what isn't.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  11. #2391
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It would be unable to 'turn into a mech', then.
    Nah, it could still turn into a mech. If Goblins can make a town out of a box, they can make backpack turn its user into a mech.

    'Unique gameplay experience' is your opinion. For me, it doesn't fit WoW.
    Well, we're all allowed to have opinions.

    And he may never, ever have it, so saying 'not yet' is irrelevant.
    True. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

    It's not 'bad comparison'. If you're using HotS as canon sources, so all of it is canon. You don't get to cherry-pick what is or what isn't.
    Its a bad comparison because those skins are "spoofs" on the main concept. Gazlowe being a Tinker isn't a spoof. It is a main concept.

    Oh and yeah, I'm not using HotS as cannon. Sorry.

  12. #2392
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Its a bad comparison because those skins are "spoofs" on the main concept. Gazlowe being a Tinker isn't a spoof. It is a main concept.
    With that same reason we can argue that HotS Gazlowe is a 'spoof' of the original concept, WoW's Gazlowe.

    Oh and yeah, I'm not using HotS as cannon. Sorry.
    Then stop using HotS Gazlowe as a reason Tinkers as a class are canon.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  13. #2393
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    With that same reason we can argue that HotS Gazlowe is a 'spoof' of the original concept, WoW's Gazlowe.
    So are Arthas, Illidan, Malfurion, and Uther spoofs of their WoW versions as well?


    Then stop using HotS Gazlowe as a reason Tinkers as a class are canon.
    I never did. I used HotS Gazlowe as an example to show more abilities associated with a possible Tinker class.

  14. #2394
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So are Arthas, Illidan, Malfurion, and Uther spoofs of their WoW versions as well?
    Yups.

    EDIT: I mean, look at Illidan? No wings, no horns, no hooves. Look at Uther: alive! As for characters from other games, look at Tyrael: still an angel.
    I never did. I used HotS Gazlowe as an example to show more abilities associated with a possible Tinker class.
    And yet you used the HotS Tinker link as proof whenever said Tinkers didn't exist in WoW.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2014-03-21 at 11:42 PM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  15. #2395
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Another possible way for Tinkers to be implemented;

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-class-in-WoW

  16. #2396
    I voted 0%. The game doesn't need anymore classes, and the game already has Engineering.

  17. #2397
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiradyn View Post
    I voted 0%. The game doesn't need anymore classes, and the game already has Engineering.
    the game needs 1 more class for mail armor. then it can stop.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  18. #2398
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    the game needs 1 more class for mail armor. then it can stop.
    You're also forgetting that we're missing a tri-role hybrid;


    Full DPS: Warlock, Mage, Rogue, Hunter
    2 role hybrid: Shaman, Priest, Warrior, DK
    3 role hybrid: Monk, Druid, Paladin

    One more spot open in the 3 role hybrid slot.

    I don't think Demon Hunters are known for healing.....

  19. #2399
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You're also forgetting that we're missing a tri-role hybrid;


    Full DPS: Warlock, Mage, Rogue, Hunter
    2 role hybrid: Shaman, Priest, Warrior, DK
    3 role hybrid: Monk, Druid, Paladin

    One more spot open in the 3 role hybrid slot.

    I don't think Demon Hunters are known for healing.....
    I really was leaning towards Dark Ranger, but them having another another 3 role class does make more sense. So I will say Warden, mail agility/mail intellect user, Tanking, Healing and Ranged melee DPS (bows, crossbows and guns). This would fill the rest of the itemization gaps in the game.
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  20. #2400
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I really was leaning towards Dark Ranger, but them having another another 3 role class does make more sense. So I will say Warden, mail agility/mail intellect user, Tanking, Healing and Ranged melee DPS (bows, crossbows and guns). This would fill the rest of the itemization gaps in the game.
    Not sure healing works well with Warden's archetype. Also Rogues take a lot of their design space. Wardens without fan of knives and blink seems somewhat dull.

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