Tinker Discussion Thread

[Gothicshark]

Agreed . Too bad you are about to put me on ignore for disagreeing with you about Tinkers.

Are you trolling and unable to listen to reason? Or are you rational? From what I see you like the Idea of a Tinker Class, but realize that Blizzard is going to do what Blizzard does. Which is most likely the Demon Hunter Class.

Most might think I dislike the tinker.

1. Been Playing a Gnome in WOW since June 2005.
2. Been Max Engineering on that Gnome most of the time. (Level dependent)
3. Been in a RP-PVP Gnome Guild for most of that time, and I am still in that Guild which is the oldest Gnome Centric RP guild in WOW.
4. My first Horde Character to Max Level was a Goblin. (in the opposite RP-Guild to the Gnome RP Guild.)

So do you think I dislike the Tinker concept?

Oh I play lots of MMOs because I get bored from WOW every so often and have played most major MMOs.

I have made tons of Tinkers over the Years. Most of them have been beautifully Steam Punk. I posted a Picture of a Clockwork Steam Controller I made in City of Heroes back in the day.

Some may think I'm super pro Demon Hunter Class, after all I will acknowledge it is going to be the next class, and I have hopes that they do it correctly.

The Truth is, My Gnome, is a Warlock. I use to tank with him. Drain tanking was a specialty of mine. Now With the Demon Hunting Glyph I have fully embraced the Idea of becoming a real Cloth Tank, and I love it. I have one of each class that can tank, and I find tanking with them boring and tedious. So I usually play them DPS. On my Demo-glyph-lock I want to be able to que as a Tank. I feel it is the next logical step. Sadly blizzard has on several occasions made it perfectly clear, no Cloth Class will ever be main tank, Ever.

So sadly I am resigned to not tank as a lock, and when Demon Hunter comes out once again a boring meat shield class where I'll just DPS.

I hinted earlier I have legitimate concerns over Tinkers. So a quick list.

1. Gnomes and Goblins. As a Class it would bring these two races to the forefront. Most players hate Gnomes and Goblins, the amount of hate over pandas and Monks will fail to compare to the hate of Tinkers. If any class could single highhandedly make ESO (or what ever the next fantasy based 'WOW-killer'* is) successful it would be the inclusion of Tinkers in WOW.

2. Too many classes, game balance is no longer possible as it is and many classes have at least 1 spec which is useless now. Adding even one more class will ensure several classes to no longer be viable.

3. It would be far better to implement all these Class Ideas in other ways.
--A. Demon Hunter as a 4th Warlock Spec, and making it possible for All races to play as Warlocks, granted this would need a lot of game balance, but honestly it would cause the least trouble in game. Even if it broke Lore. Also the 4th Spec would have to be able to Dual weld Swords.
--B. Tinker open up the long promised Vehicle combat system, make engineering useful in Combat again, give us Backpacks to make, that use the Vehicle interface system.
--C. Bard - 4th spec for Rogues, Necromancer - 4th spec for DKs, ect.

4. Some in game Tinkers are Melee Warriors, Some are Rifle Men, making a Class based on tinker would mean 1 class could do Melee, Ranged, and Pets. They had that. And it caused that class to be overpowered in most situations. Back in the Day the Ranged/Melee Class was a Survival Hunter. If built correctly you did it all. And it caused a lot of problems, even now Hunter is the strongest overall DPS class (equally good in PVP and PVE) Can be top DPS even if it is played by a novice player, in poor Gear. Tinker as described would be more of the same, only worse because it should have multiple pets like Shaman Totems. So really take the best of Hunter and add it to the best of Shaman. Yah, just thinking about it breaks the game.

There are more, but these are the real issues, and they are not solvable at this point in the game. If WOW was an Open Sandbox game, or if they included them Early this would not be an issue, but the game is 9 years old, and it is the definition of a themepark MMO.

My best suggestion for people wanting a Tinker, play Wildstar, play the Engineer. OMG it was amazing this weekend, and frankly it is everything a Tinker should be. Pets, Tanking, Sci-Fi/Steam Backpack turns into mech suit. Hell Wildstar is Anime Sci-fi with tons of Steam tech, and Fantasy magic. It's like WOW only in the future,... ok I'll stop rambling.




*WOW-Killer, a mythological MMO which would pull 7 million players away from WOW. As of yet no MMO has been worthy of this title. Some feel it will be heralded by a star in the East and 3 wise nerds.

[Ielenia]

Maybe I missed something when I skipped a few pages but I do not think its been debunked. Some people said something against the idea but not really debunked it.

Enchanters focus on the Enchanting school of magic. Other mages focus on one or two other schools. From the in-game 'The Schools of Magic - Introduction' book:

Each of these categories is known as a school of magic, for they are often learned separately and mages frequently choose to specialize in one type or another.

[Manabomb]

Can you stop with the 'melee warlock champion' and veiled insults BS? One of the very things I've said about both of those classes is that they both have very little to no chance at all of being implemented. The only real 'pro-DH' thing I've said is that, between Tinkers and DHs, DHs have a better chance of being made in the game for already existing in canon and lore, and because of the heavily foreshadowed Burning Legion expansion. That's all.

Actually, no, I can't stop with the melee warlock champion. Because it -literally is a melee warlock- or a warrior with a bright green glow. As I've said before, give locks glaives or warriors a green glow and theres your demon hunter.

A fail argument that was debunked many times before. Engineers and Tinkers are one and the same thematically and in lore. As for Enchanters and mages, enchanters are simply a school of magic, with player mages knowing other schools of magic.

There are schools of magic and schools of technology, such as goblin and gnome. But on top of that we aren't using skyrims magic system here, enchanting isn't thematically different from condensing arcane magics into bolts of frost or fire. They are not one in the same lore wise as you can see in the "wowpedia" page of tinkerkers there actually being some merit to the class outside of the engineering professions.

Another fail argument. A blacksmith is nothing like a warrior. One trains in using swords, axes and maces and to move around in plate armor. The other trains the arts of metallurgy and metalwork. How you can consider both one and the same is beyond me.

A blacksmith, or weaponsmith if you wish, is a person who can craft armor and weaponry for warriors or you know, whoever. I said multiple times, saying an tinkerer cannot exist because engineering is the same kind of redundant as saying a crafter of arms makes the user of arms null.

Nice lie. I never said that. I just said that the reason engineers and tinkers are the same is because both do the same thing: create and use technology armaments.

So you're saying that engineering and tinkerer is the only profession or class mutually exclusive to your comparison? Nice bias. +D

I do link it because it does count.

Pretty sure I said -fight- with, last time I checked the best thing a skygolem can do is herb for you. Such dynamic class capabilities.


That has nothing to do with anything, but it's cute to watch you flail around and hitting nothing.

No, what is cute is a melee warlock hero such as yourself attempt to disprove something with absolutely no merit and using comparisons for things that would have double standards on classes that already exist. So please, please, try harder you melee warlock champion.

So yeah. Please try harder. I really want you to give me a better reason why tinkerer can't be a class with the vague justification of "lollegionexpansion" being the only thing a melee warlock has for it.

[Hatecore]

Huh...I am not Teriz, but do I count if I show one. Main is Gazlowe. http://wowpedia.org/Gazlowe

Nope

After the Third War, Gazlowe was contracted by Thrall to be Durotar’s Chief Engineer. His task was to secure a reliable source of water for the newly constructed city of Orgrimmar. Gazlowe's expedition dugs tunnels outside the city in search of underground well, where they accidentally tunnelled into a den of kobolds who immediately flooded into the caves and drove the goblin miners out. Gazlowe sent the yet-unproven Rexxar into the Orgrimmar Tunnels to protect goblin Sappers that would collapse the breaches into the kobold dens. When Rexxar succeeded Gazlowe rewarded him with magical items.[3]
Gazlowe and his engineers also dug out other tunnels under Durotar, finding a previously unexplored city at Gazlowe's Excavation Site.[4]

They are the same lore wise hence the main reason Teriz is dodging it.

[Teriz]

Stop dodging it

show me 1 Tinker who is not Considered a engineer lore wise

I've already answered that. "Engineer" is the generic word for anyone who works with machines or technology. However, saying someone is an engineer, isn't like saying that someone is of the WoW profession.

Just like saying that someone is a warrior isn't the same as saying that someone is of the Warrior class in WoW. Those farmers in Farshire for example, or Shaman, Paladins, and Death Knights, they're all "warriors", but they aren't Warriors.

[Ielenia]

Huh...I am not Teriz, but do I count if I show one. Main is Gazlowe. http://wowpedia.org/Gazlowe

That is a rogue. His backstory says he's a rogue. And WoWPedia got altered again, apparently. It now says: 'Engineer'. Not Tinker. But his background says: rogue.

[Gothicshark]

Huh...I am not Teriz, but do I count if I show one. Main is Gazlowe. http://wowpedia.org/Gazlowe

http://wowpedia.org/Gazlowe

Gazlowe is the official leader of Ratchet in the Horde-aligned territory of the Northern Barrens. He was formerly the Chief Engineer of the Horde engineering works in Durotar, and while keen to remain neutral towards the Alliance, he has no love for them[1] and retains strong relations with the Horde.[2]

[Solzan Nemesis]

Are you trolling and unable to listen to reason? Or are you rational? From what I see you like the Idea of a Tinker Class, but realize that Blizzard is going to do what Blizzard does. Which is most likely the Demon Hunter Class. -snip-

Sorry I did not mean to make you upset...but was it not you a few pages back that said they where going to put us all on ignore? Also I am not a troll... though I am probable rational (I guess), I think differently then most people. I find I can be easy to reason with, which is why I come the the collision that Blizzard would go to Demon Hunter out of popularity.

Btw I like your joke about the WoW "Killer" haha . Also I played a little of Wildstar, I enjoined the Spellslinger class. Sounds like I will like Engineer too.

[Teriz]

Are you trolling and unable to listen to reason? Or are you rational? From what I see you like the Idea of a Tinker Class, but realize that Blizzard is going to do what Blizzard does. Which is most likely the Demon Hunter Class.

If Blizzard was going to do a Demon Hunter class, it wouldn't have given the design space of the DH to Warlocks, Rogues, Warriors, DKs, and Hunters.

[Hatecore]

I've already answered that. "Engineer" is the generic word for anyone who works with machines or technology. However, saying someone is an engineer, isn't like saying that someone is of the WoW profession.

Just like saying that someone is a warrior isn't the same as saying that someone is of the Warrior class in WoW. Those farmers in Farshire for example, or Shaman, Paladins, and Death Knights, they're all "warriors", but they aren't Warriors.

No not your opinion Some cannon lore backing tinkers are not Engineers

[Dispraise]

the only difference between them and the warrior class is power levels.

And the fact that they're not warriors to begin with.

[Hatecore]

http://wowpedia.org/Gazlowe

And Teriz claims that Gazlowe is a tinker cuz of HOTS

[Ellixen]

Technician, Machinist, Gearmaster, Mechanic, Artificer, Inventor, Siegecrafter, Mekkgineer, etc. are all valid names for a WoW technology class.

Hmm, Siegecrafter, Articifer, and Gearmaster all work for me. I just hate the name tinker, sounds like you don't know what you're doing.

As I said in another thread I don't care if they make a rainbow unicorn class that shoots fairies out of a candy cane. If they call it a demon hunter, i want one :P

[Teriz]

And the fact that they're not warriors to begin with.

What makes them not "warriors'?

A warrior is simply a brave soldier or fighter. I would say the farmers are Farshire are very brave.

What about Enhancement Shaman? Blizzard themselves calls them warriors;

Enhancement

A totemic warrior who strikes down foes with weapons imbued with elemental power.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#W!

What's the lore difference there hmmmmm?

[Ielenia]

Actually, no, I can't stop with the melee warlock champion. Because it -literally is a melee warlock- or a warrior with a bright green glow. As I've said before, give locks glaives or warriors a green glow and theres your demon hunter.

Stop the BS. I'm no champion of anything, lest of all the Demon Hunters. But it's a fact they have more chances than the Tinker. And by 'more chances', I say DHs have around 0.5% chances of being created, while Tinkers have around 0.1%, just to make things clear to you.

There are schools of magic and schools of technology, such as goblin and gnome.

Schools of magic are different than 'technology subsets'. Schools of magic are completely different from each other, while the only difference between the sub-sets of Technology are aesthetic choices.

A blacksmith, or weaponsmith if you wish, is a person who can craft armor and weaponry for warriors or you know, whoever.

Blacksmith: a practitioner of metallurgy and metalworking; Warrior: a master of the martial arts, expert in the use of axes, swords and maces of all kinds.
Engineer: a technology inventor; Tinker: a technology inventor.

See the difference?

So you're saying that engineering and tinkerer is the only profession or class mutually exclusive to your comparison? Nice bias.

It's not bias, it's fact. You're worse than Teriz.

Pretty sure I said -fight- with, last time I checked the best thing a skygolem can do is herb for you. Such dynamic class capabilities.

Nice try. Mounted combat does not exist in WoW outside gimmicky fights.

[Ellixen]

If Blizzard was going to do a Demon Hunter class, it wouldn't have given the design space of the DH to Warlocks, Rogues, Warriors, DKs, and Hunters.

If blizz was going to do a tinker class, they would've had a relevent wc3 hero in the story, see what i did there?

[Gothicshark]

That is a rogue. His backstory says he's a rogue. And WoWPedia got altered again, apparently. It now says: 'Engineer'. Not Tinker. But his background says: rogue.

Umm no, last edit in WOWpedia was February 13, 2014. It was elongating WOW to World of Warcraft.

http://wowpedia.org/index.php?title=...action=history

[Dispraise]

What makes them not "warriors'?

The fact that they're farmers.

What's the lore difference there hmmmmm?

The fact that they're shamans.

[Teriz]

If blizz was going to do a tinker class, they would've had a relevent wc3 hero in the story, see what i did there?

Yeah, and it makes no sense because we're talking about WoW, not WC3.

[Gothicshark]

Sorry I did not mean to make you upset...but was it not you a few pages back that said they where going to put us all on ignore? Also I am not a troll... though I am probable rational, I think differently then most people.

Only Teriz is on my ignor list. Quiet Literally first person to cause me to use that feature. I am 100% convinced he is nothing but a troll these days, at one time he was logical, but not now.