It's Supreme Court day! Hobby Lobby VS Obamacare.

[oujosh29]

It's not like there aren't lobbyists in my town, but whether the guys at home know what to do better than the guys far away is not as cut and dry as "distance increases knowledge". While that can be true, it can also be a "forest for the trees" issue. When you're in the city, it's easy to focus on fixing a single problem and miss the fact that there are dozens of problems affecting the entire city.

The people up top should be better at handling the BIG THINGS, the things that affect the country as a whole. Health care is not a "local issue", it's a national issue.

I think it should be a state issue, I think money should be block granted back to the states so they can decide what to do.

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We had a court case over this. Move on. Also blaming the federal government for states being shit holes is a god damn joke when those states get more money from the feds than they pay in taxes.

Your right I'm more talking about what I think would be, in my opinion, a better approach. But yeah the courts have already ruled its legal and its the reality we live in. But I'm on the forum for discussion not well that's just how it is.

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I don't see a great reason why a nation can't provide basic healthcare. Being geographically large doesn't seem an obstacle for Canada, or at least one that's insurmountable.

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Hell, one doesn't even have to be in such an underclass to be threatened by our current healthcare system. I think I'm probably actually more underinsured than the average really poor person at present. It's a calculated risk on my part, which one could argue is a bad decision, but it's bizarre that it's a decision I have to (get to?) make at all.

You really can't compare Canada to America. Canada may be a huge country but its population is a fraction of ours.

[Wells]

You really can't compare Canada to America. Canada may be a huge country but its population is a fraction of ours.

This is special pleading on its own. Canada is smaller. It is not small.

[Spectral]

You really can't compare Canada to America. Canada may be a huge country but its population is a fraction of ours.

The excuses, at some point, get kind of tiresome. Japan's right around half our size and does fine with a socialized system.

[Mormolyce]

What an idiotic case.

Welcome to having an actual healthcare system America. Maybe the rest of the world can give you some tips, considering we've had it since before living memory.

P.S. I strongly object to exemptions to anything based on religion. Religion is just an opinion, it should not be granted special favours that a personal opinion is not.

Actually this is kind of exciting.

Theoretically all of the language is in place for the SCOTUS to rule that universal access to health care is a human right.

Unlikely given the current bench.

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You really can't compare Canada to America. Canada may be a huge country but its population is a fraction of ours.

Hardly relevant, larger population makes healthcare more expensive but it also provides a larger taxbase to pay for it. The US has a higher GDP per capita than Canada as well, so you're actually better positioned to afford quality healthcare. You just don't.

And in terms of geographical size, lower population density over the same landmass means again, America is better positioned than Canada.

[satimy]

Yes, because believing that the only reason people should have sex is for procreation is archaic, closed-minded, dangerous, anti-science, anti-society, fear-based nonsense.

Its also close minded to think that religious freedom isn't important

[Wells]

Its also close minded to think that religious freedom isn't important

The only way religious freedom is an issue here is if you think corporations have it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its also close minded to think that religious freedom isn't important

Religious freedom isn't being infringed here. If anything Hobby Lobby is pushing their own.

[satimy]

What religious freedom is being violated here?

Im not sure that it is, im referring to that posters statement

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Religious freedom isn't being infringed here. If anything Hobby Lobby is pushing their own.

No Sotomayor basically said that you still have the right to decline contraceptives but you have to pay a tax to do so. Thats a pretty scary thought, but I guess it happens everyday.

[Kujako]

No Sotomayor basically said that you still have the right to decline contraceptives but you have to pay a tax to do so. Thats a pretty scary thought, but I guess it happens everyday.

Much like I can decline to kill Iraqis, but I have to pay for others to do it with my taxes.

[Spectral]

Im not sure that it is, im referring to that posters statement

I also think it's interesting the way more NFL teams are shifting to base nickel packages.

Oh, wait, we're not just doing non-sequiturs? My bad.

[Endus]

You really can't compare Canada to America. Canada may be a huge country but its population is a fraction of ours.

This is total nonsense. The two are highly comparable. Yes, Canada's population is about 1/10th of America's, but that doesn't mean anything. Particularly since the Canadian system is implemented and managed provincially, with federal regulations mandating how those provincial systems have to run in terms of care provided and so on (so there's consistency of care between provinces).

And even then, it's just scaling. These systems scale up (or down) just fine. There's a point you can't efficiently drop under, because certain pieces of equipment are expensive and rarely-used enough to require a certain population level to make them worth buying, but once you're over that level, there's no insurmountable problem with applying the system to a larger population.

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Its also close minded to think that religious freedom isn't important

The issue is primarily that religious freedom is important.

Namely, the freedom, as an individual, to not be forced to abide by someone else's religious rules.

Hobby Lobby isn't arguing for religious freedoms. They're arguing for the authority to infringe upon the religious freedom of their employees.

[satimy]

Much like I can decline to kill Iraqis, but I have to pay for others to do it with my taxes.

Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq, a mistake. Less innocent people will die though. I don't think you should celebrate it though.

[Spectral]

Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

Right. A lot. Definitely.

[satimy]

This is total nonsense. The two are highly comparable. Yes, Canada's population is about 1/10th of America's, but that doesn't mean anything. Particularly since the Canadian system is implemented and managed provincially, with federal regulations mandating how those provincial systems have to run in terms of care provided and so on (so there's consistency of care between provinces).

And even then, it's just scaling. These systems scale up (or down) just fine. There's a point you can't efficiently drop under, because certain pieces of equipment are expensive and rarely-used enough to require a certain population level to make them worth buying, but once you're over that level, there's no insurmountable problem with applying the system to a larger population.

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The issue is primarily that religious freedom is important.

Namely, the freedom, as an individual, to not be forced to abide by someone else's religious rules.

Hobby Lobby isn't arguing for religious freedoms. They're arguing for the authority to infringe upon the religious freedom of their employees.

Should a catholic school have to hire an atheist teacher? Again I'm not even really on the side of the Christian people, but theres plenty of people on this forum that would love any law that would oppress them because of the minority dickhead Christians that act like pricks.

[Wells]

Should a catholic school have to hire an atheist teacher? Again I'm not even really on the side of the Christian people, but theres plenty of people on this forum that would love any law that would oppress them because of the minority dickhead Christians that act like pricks.

Hobby Lobby isn't a religious institution.

[Mormolyce]

The only way religious freedom is an issue here is if you think corporations have it.

And as they said in the article, whose religion are we talking about? The CEO's? The board of directors'? The shareholder's?

It's preposterous.

[Kujako]

Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq, a mistake. Less innocent people will die though. I don't think you should celebrate it though.

In fact, Obamacare will let more people live. I dislike the mandates, but can you imagine the hissy fit that would have been thrown had the ACA gone through without them (from the insurance companies and their lobbies for the most part)? Best case scenario, Obamacare sets up a framework (the exchanges) through which a single payer system could be implemented once we're fed up with suckling on the insurance companies teat.

[Starbrand]

i only see Hobby Lobby as a Michaels and JoAnn Fabrics combined into one and closed on Sundays. Had no idea about any of this.

I always enjoy getting news from unlikely sources

[satimy]

Hobby Lobby isn't a religious institution.

are they exempt?

[Mormolyce]

Should a catholic school have to hire an atheist teacher?

Dunno if it's different in the US but in Australia and Britain neither the teachers nor the students have to be Catholic.