Let's "bond" players to LFD/LFR

[Bryntrollian]

Id go in lfr / lfd with my buddies and grief random strangers repeatedly if this was implemented

[Smudge]

It's likely exploitable to an extent, but not really the worst idea I've heard of on these forums. Players having some skin in the game isn't a bad thing.

A kinder, gentler version might be, for example, if loot tables were adjusted so that tier items only dropped off the last boss of a given wing. (or, that no bosses dropped anything, but the wing boss reveals a chest that players get their loot from for that entire wing).

I've thought for a long time that you shouldn't get your goodies from LFR until the wing is over.

It would be an inconvenience to people (including me) who only want an item from a particular boss, but it would be more than made up by the increased number of smooth start-to-finish runs not punctuated by revolving door tanks and heals.

Also, I think the loot tables in LFR wings should be merged. That is: All bosses drop the same things, which is a balanced mixture of the drops from all of the bosses in that wing.

That way, none of this "I only want the dagger/shoulder token/whatever."

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Id go in lfr / lfd with my buddies and grief random strangers repeatedly if this was implemented

No you wouldn't, because you really can't even do that now.

[Mormolyce]

Add to all the other objections the fact that VP has marginal benefit at best at the moment. It's useless for most of my toons.

There is absolutely nothing Blizzard can put in the game code that will stop jerks from being jerks. Full stop.

[Bryntrollian]

It's likely exploitable to an extent, but not really the worst idea I've heard of on these forums. Players having some skin in the game isn't a bad thing.

A kinder, gentler version might be, for example, if loot tables were adjusted so that tier items only dropped off the last boss of a given wing. (or, that no bosses dropped anything, but the wing boss reveals a chest that players get their loot from for that entire wing).

Nice but how about you don't get any loot until you have killed the last boss

[The One Percent]

The whole reason LFR was created was for people who don't want to have to make a commitment to a raid guild to raid.

[Bryntrollian]

No you wouldn't, because you really can't even do that now.

Of course I could, all I would need to do is to queue up for LFR with a few of my buddies and we could start initiating kicks on unsuspecting players.

[Jellybean]

The best part would be when the servers went down and all 25 people lost 200 valor through no fault of their own. That would be amazing.

[Smudge]

Of course I could, all I would need to do is to queue up for LFR with a few of my buddies and we could start initiating kicks on unsuspecting players.

You don't understand how the kick mechanism has worked for, let's say, is it 3 years now or just two?

Basically, as a group that queued together, you can kick one player. And then that's about all any of you can kick -- together or separately -- for (a minimum of) several weeks.

[Mormolyce]

You don't understand how the kick mechanism has worked for, let's say, is it 3 years now or just two?

Basically, as a group that queued together, you can kick one player. And then that's about all any of you can kick -- together or separately -- for (a minimum of) several weeks.

I've played for years and honestly no I don't understand the kick mechanism. Sometimes I can kick all day, sometimes I can't kick at all, I don't kick very often but damn the system is obscure and annoying.

I USED to understand it but they keep changing it...

[Smudge]

I've played for years and honestly no I don't understand the kick mechanism. Sometimes I can kick all day, sometimes I can't kick at all, I don't kick very often but damn the system is obscure and annoying.

I USED to understand it but they keep changing it...

Nowadays I mostly see people kicked for being AFK/DC and the system seems to have no trouble letting everyone do that correctly.

It is possible to get disruptive players kicked. It seems that in general, some people in a group are able to initiate/participate in votes, and some aren't. The inner workings are somewhat mysterious but I would say the system is in a good place now, except for the inability to kick people during/after combat/looting.

The greatly stepped-up "you missed it so it's in the mail" loot system (it now even handles crafted items that wouldn't fit in your bags) is I think a change that is intended to allow (among other things) in-combat/during-loot kicks in the near future.

[Xorn]

That's exactly what I mean.

Make it to the end, or you get nothing, and by nothing, I mean, less than what you started with.

That's a stupid idea.

Let's say I queue for LFR and get put into a group halfway finished. So I kill the last 2 bosses, and queue again to hit the first 2. Now you expect me to sit through all 4 bosses, even though I already killed the last 2? Fuck that noise

[Grym]

For the "no loot til last boss killed".

There are times that groups just falls apart, cannot get replacement, bug, or whatever reasons. ToT Ji-Kun (due to bug) and Lei Shen (ability) comes to mind.

So, 4 bosses wing, killed the first boss, my item drop (but cannot collect til last boss kill right?), but group is falling apart due to one of the above scenario, so now I am screwed out of my loot?

I cannot even re-try after that as it will already register that I killed the first boss, so I won't get any loot now.

Even if it reset my loot, does that mean I have to wish that first boss drop my loot again? If so, it is opened for another exploit: my loot from first boss didn't drop, but that's OK, if I leave before last boss loot reset anyway.

There really isn't a good way to sort this.

[Mormolyce]

Nowadays I mostly see people kicked for being AFK/DC and the system seems to have no trouble letting everyone do that correctly.

It is possible to get disruptive players kicked. It seems that in general, some people in a group are able to initiate/participate in votes, and some aren't. The inner workings are somewhat mysterious but I would say the system is in a good place now, except for the inability to kick people during/after combat/looting.

The greatly stepped-up "you missed it so it's in the mail" loot system (it now even handles crafted items that wouldn't fit in your bags) is I think a change that is intended to allow (among other things) in-combat/during-loot kicks in the near future.

Probably not, don't think Blizzard likes the idea of in-combat kicking. It'd be okay if they somehow distinguished between in-combat with boss vs trash though.

I wish they'd just display your kick ability somehow rather than it being such a black box. But they probably don't want people tracking that in case it encourages kicking.

Also I'd prefer a system where instead of being unable to kick, the more you kick the more people are required to agree for the kick to go ahead. So someone who never kicks might successfully kick with only 5 votes, whereas someone who kicks a lot might need up to 15-20 or something. Which wears off over time like the current one is supposed to. That way you can always kick a really toxic player, if everyone agrees.

[Smudge]

That's a stupid idea.

Let's say I queue for LFR and get put into a group halfway finished. So I kill the last 2 bosses, and queue again to hit the first 2. Now you expect me to sit through all 4 bosses, even though I already killed the last 2? Fuck that noise

Yeah, I do expect you to do that, actually.

If everyone stuck around, first, there would be many more fast, complete runs, so you wouldn't have that half-finished run.

Second, there would be many more fast, complete runs, so your second run would go speedily anyway.

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Probably not, don't think Blizzard likes the idea of in-combat kicking. It'd be okay if they somehow distinguished between in-combat with boss vs trash though.

Yeah, I am 99% sure they will differentiate between boss and trash, and remove the limits from kicking while in combat on trash, on trivial loot rolls, et cetera.

No one can say what the requirements for initiating and completing a kick in a large group are at this time and with LFR going flex-ish, it will be even less clear. That's fine by me, really, as long as the system appears to work. The fewer people who know how it really works, in this case, I think, the better.

[Deleted]

Really?

So, when you are raiding, you don't mind if your tank says "sorry mates don't need these bosses have a good one."

Of course I mind. It means we have to wait longer. But I understand why he does it and it's completely ok.

[Smudge]

Of course I mind. It means we have to wait longer. But I understand why he does it and it's completely ok.

So if you log on with 9 other people, and one of the two people who is absolutely required for you to continue playing for the 3 hour bloc you have set aside for the evening says "ehh nothing in it for me g'day to ya," you "understand why he did it" and you and your 8 stood-up buddies will just go pick herbs until someone else volunteers?

No hard feelings? Come back next week if it is convenient for you to tank a different boss?

Really?

[Deleted]

So if you log on with 9 other people, and one of the two people who is absolutely required for you to continue playing for the 3 hour bloc you have set aside for the evening says "ehh nothing in it for me g'day to ya," you "understand why he did it" and you and your 8 stood-up buddies will just go pick herbs until someone else volunteers?

No hard feelings? Come back next week if it is convenient for you to tank a different boss?

Really?

I'm talking about LFR, so it would be 25 people. If you're doing 10 mans with a group of friends it's a totally different thing. So if in LFR or in LFD someone leaves, yeah that's ok. I just wait for someone else to join. Both LFD and LFR are in the game for a long time now, should I still be pissed everytime someone leaves? On top of that, I left groups countless times and I will continue to do so. If there's a reason for me to leave, I'll leave. And I'm sure you left groups as well.

[dusselldorf]

I never understood what people's hangup with waiting 2 seconds for the queue to pop after each boss is. Are we impatient enough we refuse to wait even minimal amounts of time to fill the group with people who *want* to be there? Does anyone really want to play with someone being artificially forced to play with the group?

[Deleted]

I honestly think this bond thing should definitely be enforced for healers and tanks. They are the ones to leave at any sign of trouble, even a tiny bit, because they have no downsides and can just get another insta-queue.

You guys aren's really using your brain before posting, are you? Sorry, but: That's one of the most stupid ideas ever. Why? Because there would be even less tanks and healers queueing then - if any.

[Smudge]

You guys aren's really using your brain before posting, are you? Sorry, but: That's one of the most stupid ideas ever. Why? Because there would be even less tanks and healers queueing then - if any.

It might be sufficient just to blend the drop tables for all the bosses in each LFR/Flex wing. That would fix the "Only need this boss" problem

But personally I think people should feel strongly committed to finishing any wing that they queue for, or else pay a significant penalty.

If I was only looking for one Runestone, or a dagger for my rogue, and it dropped on the first boss I killed, I would certainly give up 200 valor to leave early if I was tired or not in the mood to continue. I don't know why anyone else would be all that much in disagreement with me on that.

Basically, I think that if you queue for LFR you should plan to play through to the end, and everyone else should be able to count on you to do that unless you have a stronger reason than "meh" to leave.