Is Garrosh normal too hard for pugs?

[Khorm]

Is it still overgearing when 565 DPS pull 150k?

[Teebu]

Aside from not knowing mechanics low DPS on Garrosh IS what causes wipes more so than on other boss in SoO.

The boss isn't harder than he is in flex, it's just that the DPS decides how hard he is. If you get 3 EWWs during p2, then you have bigger issues. If you have 2, it's alright if the adds spawning doesn't interfere with phase transition. Still manageable if it does happen at the same time. 1 is easymode and 0 is overgearing it or 1tank+1healing it on 10m.

[Raelbo]

I love how you called everyone an idiot except those that failed.

If you think that failing in P3 on a fight makes one an "idiot", the joke is on you. Stupidity is not about a lack of experience, it's about failing to learn from one's experiences.

I call those people idiots because their actions are detrimental to themselves and their objective only they cannot see it - even though, as far more experienced players, they SHOULD know better.

Sure, if 3-4 attempts later there are dps still failing, kick em and replace em. But causing a group to disintegrate after 2 wipes, especially when there is clear progress, is just idiotic. The time invested in forming the group means that people really stick around for a bit.

Also, like I said, by bailing from a group after 2 attempts you are creating a shitty community. It's that simple. WoW is a community. It's full of people who are worse than you. You can either help them to improve, or accept the fact that you are always going to have people in your groups who don't know what they are doing.

On your earlier point, if you don't know how to get the buff you've lied on your experience part.

I have met players with vastly superior experience of particular fights, and have been able to point out small things they missed.

On my earlier point in another post, PuGs aren't there for people to progress.

Yes they are. Among other things. Of course if you WANT WoW raiding to die, then, by all means, keep up that wonderful attitude of yours.

[roahn the warlock]

About as hard as the Lich King.

what you are seeing is a lot of players in high gear scores that actually have no skill to speak of because of how easy they are to obtain. Flex is about as easy at 10 man ICC, and recall back then that wasn't really enough to tackle heroic 10 man. Which is about where normal garrosh is.

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Is it still overgearing when 565 DPS pull 150k?

Are they playing a deathknight? Otherwise they need to look at what's the problem

[Bromgar]

One shotted it last week , I was surprised since we wipped at Blackfuse xD. Even recorded it , idk if I can post the link . youtu.be /sdQO1pRCbac . Don't mind my clicking skills or ugly UI . Oh forgot to mention we weren't on any program like vent or ts. just pure yolo.

[Deleted]

I one shotted normal garrosh in a pug yesterday but such occurences are pretty rare nowadays. Pug was pretty harsh on requirements - 565 and feat of strength + get on voice, no exceptions. But it did succeeded.

What I DO see from watching trade chat, is that there is an absolute ASS TON of boosting services, while actual pugs doing the content are geting rarer. On my server theres like 10 different boosting guilds + all those companies selling real money boost too. It's sad that there's more supply in BUYING the service than actually playing the damn game.

[Khorm]

I have met players with vastly superior experience of particular fights, and have been able to point out small things they missed.

Doing a mechanic that stops you from dying is not small.

Yes they are. Among other things. Of course if you WANT WoW raiding to die, then, by all means, keep up that wonderful attitude of yours.

Completely wrong. I reiterate, PuGs are not for progression.

[trystero]

You already identified the problem: EWC. People cannot do the mechanic, and whether that's due to ignorance, stubbornness, or incompetence, it doesn't really matter. They're used to Flex where you can throw enough DPS at the boss and skip EWC. You can do that in NM too, obviously, but it's harder in a standard 10M pug group. You'll probably have to solo tank it and have several good damage dealers in the raid. Expecting pug groups to have that level of DPS, in alt /non-heroic raider groups, is unrealistic. You've got players who stay stacked under the boss, who AoE spam the adds because yolo, who don't taunt adds off healers, who don't kite empowered ones, who run as far from the group as their speed boost can take them, etc. The players don't know how to handle this mechanic, and it's gg.

I did it the other day on my main in a pug and we one shot it, but it was again because of high dps (1 tank, 2 healers) and we pushed P3 early. Even then, I don't think I've ever been part a clean pug Garrosh kill, and that includes flex. It's a disastrous, limping to the finish line kind of ending every single time, with a few players mind controlled, some adds empowered, my Vuhdo frames showing everyone has diseases...

[Ailylia]

Its hard, but it should be.

Perhaps an argument could be made that klaxxi/siegecrafter/thok/spoils are too easy leading up to him, giving you a false sense of "Yeah we'll blow him up".

[mistahwilshire]

The issue I've seen in a lot of pugs is that the raid leaders have convoluted and unnecessarily complicated strats for Garrosh when it's much more simple than they make it.

[Deleted]

Just from a PUG/casual players point of view that started playing again after 5.4. (5 years pause)
I think Garrosh is a little bit overtuned compared to the rest of the bosses. If there should be a overtuned boss it should have been a optionable (or heroic) boss. Then all the "hardcore" players still would have something to brag about. Instead of whining about LFR.

Going from LFR to Flex was easier, everything mosty just died, much quicker then the smoothest LFR, except Garrosh.
Went from Flex to normal (PUG), although havent done more than 11/14 (it was reset the next day and was late at night) and I rarely take the time to join/get a group. But when I got 11/14 we oneshotted everything (1 wipe on spoils, someone made a misstake).

So all of the people that think NORMAL is so hard is just kidding them self, ilvl is everything. In my experience its just that in LFR there is 1-2 things to look out for, in flex +1, and in normal +1 again. Its not any harder when people know the mechanics.
The only problem is that people in LFR and sometimes flex are lazy, they slack and they dont gem or enchant, because they see it only as a obstacle before they can get real gear.

LFR is great in many ways, but it's not really functional now a days. When I started playing again and geared up, there was not anything wrong with LFR. Because people were trying to do their best in the new released wing.
But now 6 months later people just trying to get carried.
And yes, it is the players fault, but also Blizzards.
I think blizzard should make items that are unenchanted and ungemmed lose some value in ilvl (as it is what they use to determine if you can join an LFR).
For an example a 496 chest with 2 sockets should maybe just be worth ilvl 484 if there is no gems or a enchant.

[JemiS]

For people who are recently progressing, keep in mind that for 10m Blackfuse/Thok were fairly recently nerfed, and Paragons is all about the strategy.

I think Garrosh is in a nice place as is, and I don't think Flex+ content should ever be tuned around PuGs. Quite honestly, the consistent cooperation is what makes a raiding encounter good, imo.

[Pandragon]

Yes it is. Garrosh requires focus, and precise synched actions from the entire raid. You don't get that in pugs. Especially the final phase with interrupts. It was like Cho'gall. To many people tunneling the boss.

[Bathory]

I would assume so yes. People still wipe on Flex Garrosh and the content has been out forever already. Normal? I've yet to find a group capable outside of guild.

[Bryntrollian]

Normal Garrosh is pretty large jump in difficulty compared to the previous bosses. Just because you can go in and roflstomp the place with a group of people who have all cleared heroics doesn't make the place any easier for the people who don't already have that experience.

[Durandro]

Isn't that the whole point of this game? You do more damage, fights become easier/doable.

But how many fights lose mechanics if you can DPS fast enough? Not many.

You literally skip the hard parts of Garrosh with enough DPS. If his abilities were tied to his HP% and not on a timer then it would be a different matter - you'd get Empowered abilities regardless when you hit certain percentages.

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Normal Garrosh is pretty large jump in difficulty compared to the previous bosses. Just because you can go in and roflstomp the place with a group of people who have all cleared heroics doesn't make the place any easier for the people who don't already have that experience.

Heck, Normal Garrosh is harder then some Heroic bosses. I think he was maybe slightly overtuned, or some Heroic bosses are slightly undertuned. Not sure which.

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The issue I've seen in a lot of pugs is that the raid leaders have convoluted and unnecessarily complicated strats for Garrosh when it's much more simple than they make it.

In all fairness the strats sound harder then they are due to how long the fight is and how many phases and mechanics there are. Actual execution is very easy once you've practiced it a few times.

[KCguy]

My raid group still can't kill him and it's been months. It's those stupid adds. They just randomly all pile onto one person and it's game over. A healer, a dps etc. It's completely random. We easily have the dps by now, but those adds are just not playing nice. lol

[Simmias]

garrosh is pugged daily on my server. But these days you get pugs who leave after one wipe. aka fools who should not be raiding. If you can clear the previous 13 bosses, garrosh shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

See a lot of complaints about adds. Maybe your tank(s) should learn to play and not tunnel.

[Sonnillon]

Garrosh is tough boss for PUGs if they don't listen nor pay attention. It is tough boss when you don't have good communication between people. It is difficult boss when you don't have the numbers to kill it or skill to avoid various stuff and nuke the correct target. It is tough boss when people lack the patience to stick with the group and RL has to switch people out due to them leaving.

I truly disagree with people who say that if you can kill previous 13 with ease then Garrosh is more then doable. Every mistake or low DPS on that boss, which could be irrelevant on the previous bosses will come and bite you in the ass half way through the encounter.

I've run 25-man PUG for few weeks now (set up on OR) and with the group of people I have (rather regular punch of people) I cannot kill it on 25-man yet, cause we lack the numbers for it. I split the 25-man to 2 10-man groups and it took us 2.5 hours to kill Garrosh with group 1, but in the end it came down to the determination of all the people along to get the kill. I'll see how my second group handles it tonight.

I've also did guild PUGs in 10-man and 99% of them have been successful as long as people stick with the group and joined our voice chat server.

A big part of PUG Garrosh failing is the lack of usage of voice chat. Raid Warnings and other various messages can be left unnoticed by accident, which will lead to wipes. Much easier to explain things when you speak, rather then typing. Also this boss needs skill + DPS and the lack of it shows out more then on the bosses before. Higher DPS makes some of the tactics irrelevant and ignorable, but it always doesn't guarantee the kill yet.

And if the adds are an issue, just rethink your strategy in handling them.

[Deja Thoris]

My raid group still can't kill him and it's been months. It's those stupid adds. They just randomly all pile onto one person and it's game over. A healer, a dps etc. It's completely random. We easily have the dps by now, but those adds are just not playing nice. lol

That's complete rubbish. Theres a million threads explaining how the adds work. If you still think they all randomly just run around after months of trying then you need to l2p. (And I rarely to never say that)