Garrosh 10H 1 tank question

[jasonleekungfu]

Hi guys! First of all we are not there yet. But a friend who is working on garrosh (2 tank 2 healer) told me it seems their dps is low and want to drop one tank or healer for a dps. As far as I know our groups are pretty much on the same boat so I assume we'd better use 7 dps as well. However so far we can only have 1 tank to switch to a decent dps. So I want to ask a couple of questions to determine what we'll do and start to gear toons up.

1) Which tank is the best for 1 tank? I have all but warrior tank and I'm comfortable on all of them. Monk(575)/Pally(573) are my mains so far.

2) How hard is it? Mostly, at about what ilvl should you know that you can do it without that much of a problem?

3) Any other tips are welcome.

Thank you!

[Gardiff]

Hi guys! First of all we are not there yet. But a friend who is working on garrosh (2 tank 2 healer) told me it seems their dps is low and want to drop one tank or healer for a dps. As far as I know our groups are pretty much on the same boat so I assume we'd better use 7 dps as well. However so far we can only have 1 tank to switch to a decent dps. So I want to ask a couple of questions to determine what we'll do and start to gear toons up.

1) Which tank is the best for 1 tank? I have all but warrior tank and I'm comfortable on all of them. Monk(575)/Pally(573) are my mains so far.

2) How hard is it? Mostly, at about what ilvl should you know that you can do it without that much of a problem?

3) Any other tips are welcome.

Thank you!

Aww you don't have a prot warrior? We just had our first kill this past week with our prot warrior tank. They destroy the transition (easy to solo especially if a blood elf) by taking out a pack by themselves in addition to solo tanking with (relative) ease.

I have seen druids (also not too bad) and prot paladins do it (eh) but do not try this with a DK (personally I would not) and I have no idea about monks.

The biggest tip that I can give you is vengeance whore as much as you can. Our prot warrior purposefully stood in every annihilate, rotating cooldowns getting PS, and is usually outputing nearly double the damage on garrosh (probably ~1.75x) than the average DPS.

Phase 1 and transition is pretty easy. I will say though that our warrior always soloed a pack assuming he got the vengeance from the few hits before the transition goes. As for a paladin, I really don't know if they have the ability as easy as warriors do to solo a pack.

Phase 2 is probably the most irritating part. When he puts stack 9-11 (he only goes to 7 on first whirlwind) for the later whirlwinds, you need to focus on keeping yourself alive and calling for externals. It was all about getting 60 rage for our warrior when he first got out of the transition, but after a few wipes, this was never an issue (thus, for us, that first ~20 seconds coming out of the transition was the worst, never the 9 to 11 stacks since we had externals. But the whole rage thing is not the same for you). Again, i don't know what to tell you for your prot paladin etc. The 2 heals must focus on you since there is literally no damage in this phase outside of whirlwinds (I was a healer - shaman and the disc priest with me was essentially brought for halo + smite dps. it really is still a 1-1.5 healer fight even if doing this especially if you have more real hybrids than 1 or 2).

As for phase 3 (not last phase), our prot warrior would routinely take 2-3 adds (usually he would finish one, then I would run in and he would taunt mine, whether or not it would stack the debuff once). Phase 3 is more of an extension of the previous phases so... for tanking specifics, there isn't much except for the add.

For phase 4, know the positioning. Know where you want iron star to spawn and move him to the other side to an exact location every time so the iron star kiter can pretty much "tunnel" and run the same path every time instead of having to judge it themselves.

They are kind of generic tips, but I can show you a log of our kill if you want. But then again its a prot warrior, so go figure.

Oh and as for Ilvl we were doing pulls solo tank back in december and a few with 2 tanks, but we took a break for 3 months until a few weeks ago when we started up. I believe our warrior was ~570 back then. Not completely sure. When we were doing it this past week he was 576.

[Dracodraco]

do not try this with a DK

Are you serious? I mean, for real? I know warriors are OP, and they are the clear number 1 choise, but despite that, DK's are *incredible* for solo tanking garrosh. Few things you might not be considering -
DK's have more cooldowns to match the stacks, along with anti magic shell for every whirl+stack explosion, essentially absorbing the "Big hit" and the whirl at the same time.
DK's can keep themselves alive for longer periods of time, allowing healers etc to deal with their adds rather than focus on the tank.
DK's survivability (death strike) scales with the damage intake - but it doesn't work on magic damage. What this means is that you get an *extremely* smooth damage curve. You'll sit at 500K vengeance, having your DS basicly shield you for more than half your healthpool and heal you up, counteracting all the physical "spike" hits - leaving all the damage intake from the DoT that's constantly ticking.

As for DPS, http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done this was our second kill, and our first solo-tanked kill (prot warr was absent so we had to improvise).
Few things you might want to consider when looking at the log and comparing it to those above me -
We use the AFK terrace tactic (1 minute of zero dmg).
I don't stand in annihilates (no reason to stress the healers when we end up waiting later on anyway).
I don't "whore vengeance" in any way, really.

[Gardiff]

Are you serious? I mean, for real? I know warriors are OP, and they are the clear number 1 choise, but despite that, DK's are *incredible* for solo tanking garrosh. Few things you might not be considering -
DK's have more cooldowns to match the stacks, along with anti magic shell for every whirl+stack explosion, essentially absorbing the "Big hit" and the whirl at the same time.
DK's can keep themselves alive for longer periods of time, allowing healers etc to deal with their adds rather than focus on the tank.
DK's survivability (death strike) scales with the damage intake - but it doesn't work on magic damage. What this means is that you get an *extremely* smooth damage curve. You'll sit at 500K vengeance, having your DS basicly shield you for more than half your healthpool and heal you up, counteracting all the physical "spike" hits - leaving all the damage intake from the DoT that's constantly ticking.

Well OP posted monk / paladin with ilvls and said he had a dk / druid but I wasn't really sure if his DK was actually geared since he was asking the question in order to see what he would gear up. I suppose I did word that initial statement pretty poorly. I just don't see DKs doing this as much as I do paladins / druids/ warriors when I look at logs or whatever but of course, that does not mean its impossible or even hard. Just relatively speaking, I think its easiest to probably do on warriors / druids, not that its actually hard to do on the others.

The point I made about vengeance whoring and sitting in annihilates was solely because it allowed us to skip terrace AFK completely and push while whirlwind 3 goes out so that you cheat for 2-3% extra etc. It isn't necessary, but that is why I stated it. True, there is no point to doing this if you have to wait (and waiting can be beneficial to groups, we just didn't bother since we could usually push it during whirlwind 3 an extra 2-3%, resulting in no 2nd EWC).

For annihilates, I can see how being a DK would stress the healers just because of whats going on in the transition, but it is so easy as a prot warrior and one or two externals.

[jasonleekungfu]

Aww you don't have a prot warrior? We just had our first kill this past week with our prot warrior tank. They destroy the transition (easy to solo especially if a blood elf) by taking out a pack by themselves in addition to solo tanking with (relative) ease.

I have seen druids (also not too bad) and prot paladins do it (eh) but do not try this with a DK (personally I would not) and I have no idea about monks.

The biggest tip that I can give you is vengeance whore as much as you can. Our prot warrior purposefully stood in every annihilate, rotating cooldowns getting PS, and is usually outputing nearly double the damage on garrosh (probably ~1.75x) than the average DPS.

Phase 1 and transition is pretty easy. I will say though that our warrior always soloed a pack assuming he got the vengeance from the few hits before the transition goes. As for a paladin, I really don't know if they have the ability as easy as warriors do to solo a pack.

Phase 2 is probably the most irritating part. When he puts stack 9-11 (he only goes to 7 on first whirlwind) for the later whirlwinds, you need to focus on keeping yourself alive and calling for externals. It was all about getting 60 rage for our warrior when he first got out of the transition, but after a few wipes, this was never an issue (thus, for us, that first ~20 seconds coming out of the transition was the worst, never the 9 to 11 stacks since we had externals. But the whole rage thing is not the same for you). Again, i don't know what to tell you for your prot paladin etc. The 2 heals must focus on you since there is literally no damage in this phase outside of whirlwinds (I was a healer - shaman and the disc priest with me was essentially brought for halo + smite dps. it really is still a 1-1.5 healer fight even if doing this especially if you have more real hybrids than 1 or 2).

As for phase 3 (not last phase), our prot warrior would routinely take 2-3 adds (usually he would finish one, then I would run in and he would taunt mine, whether or not it would stack the debuff once). Phase 3 is more of an extension of the previous phases so... for tanking specifics, there isn't much except for the add.

For phase 4, know the positioning. Know where you want iron star to spawn and move him to the other side to an exact location every time so the iron star kiter can pretty much "tunnel" and run the same path every time instead of having to judge it themselves.

They are kind of generic tips, but I can show you a log of our kill if you want. But then again its a prot warrior, so go figure.

Oh and as for Ilvl we were doing pulls solo tank back in december, but we took a break for 3 months until a few weeks ago when we started up. I believe our warrior was ~570 back then. Not completely sure. When we were doing it this past week he was 576.

About P2 paladin and dk should have the least problem with the stacks according to my experience from normal. But I personally wouldn't consider one tank with my monk for cuz they are just so vulnerable to constant magic damage. I remember he took so much more damage than my co-tank dk when we were progressing on normal. Sounds like paladin would be my choice

[Dracodraco]

Well OP posted monk / paladin with ilvls and said he had a dk / druid but I wasn't really sure if his DK was actually geared since he was asking the question in order to see what he would gear up. I suppose I did word that initial statement pretty poorly. I just don't see DKs doing this as much as I do paladins / druids/ warriors when I look at logs or whatever but of course, that does not mean its impossible or even hard. Just relatively speaking, I think its easiest to probably do on warriors / druids, not that its actually hard to do on the others.

The point I made about vengeance whoring and sitting in annihilates was solely because it allowed us to skip terrace AFK completely and push while whirlwind 3 goes out so that you cheat for 2-3% extra etc. It isn't necessary, but that is why I stated it. True, there is no point to doing this if you have to wait (and waiting can be beneficial to groups, we just didn't bother since we could usually push it during whirlwind 3 an extra 2-3%, resulting in no 2nd EWC).

For annihilates, I can see how being a DK would stress the healers just because of whats going on in the transition, but it is so easy as a prot warrior and one or two externals.

There's the issue. We push Garrosh to 11-15% before we enter terrace, AFK for a minute to get all CDS/procs etc back up, and then we push P2.5 with one set of adds, and P3 with one set of adds, guaranteed, as all cds are ready. You achieve much the same, except you're reliant on pushing it during a whirl (if you miss the check, it's a wipe) to get the extra dmg on garrosh to meet P3 check - we just got that automatically cos all CDs were ready from the AFKing. Not to mention your raid cds will be exhausted for the one empowered whirl you get.

[britishbubba]

Well our guild has one tanked it each kill so I'll throw in my two cents...

As a BrM main, it's *possible* to do it, but I wouldn't solo tank it as a BrM. The weapon DoT wrecks you with your low health pool unless you put on a vial of corruption or something. Our paladin tank has a much better time of it as he doesn't get gibbed by the magic damage as much, that being said.... If SoTR falls you get chunked really hard by autos.

Warrior is probably your best bet from the logs we've looked at, and DK has been done and actually would probably be boarderline op for it with a vial due to the CD on AMS.

Push the dps hard enough, and you go into p3 before the last desecrate weapon in p2.

[Eetabee]

We will be attempting to one tank this week with our monk. We have three kills (two tank) under our belt so far and are able to push into p3 before t2 about 50% of the time. We figure going to one tank will make that 100%. This way you only get one empowered whirl and it is easily survived with personal CDs and health stones if necessary. Just make sure the tank uses a big cd on himself so the healers can focus on the raid during that whirl.

Our reasoning for wanting to skip terrace and not AFK it is due to getting one less whirl. This past week out ele shaman was out so we lost his raid CDs and our resto Druid lost her moving tranq. We had many wipes with one or two deaths during whirls. We figured if we only got one it would be easier, and it was. Sadly, we can only manage that about half the time. For our kill, I "solo" tanked as a DK with our monk just taunting for vengeance every so often but I pulled him right back. This increased our overall damage between us tanks by about 10m and gave us the push we needed. This week we will try with just him tanking and me going dps to see how it is.

Draco, you will have no issues skipping the second whirl in p3 if you skip terrace. You really only lose about 2-3 seconds running and if you plan for it you can be in position already. How you guys do CDs is a different story. You guys seem much better than our guild because we still wipe 2-3 hours weekly on it so don't worry about p3 damage by skipping terrace! Like I said, we found it easier but to each their own.

[Dracodraco]

Draco, you will have no issues skipping the second whirl in p3 if you skip terrace. You really only lose about 2-3 seconds running and if you plan for it you can be in position already. How you guys do CDs is a different story. You guys seem much better than our guild because we still wipe 2-3 hours weekly on it so don't worry about p3 damage by skipping terrace! Like I said, we found it easier but to each their own.

I have no doubt we'd still make the p3 push personally, it was more in response to the guy I was quoting who said that pushing it during a whirl gave them the 2-3% extra dmg they needed to push P3 before second whirl (we always get the boss to 1 HP during the roleplay anyway <.<).

[jasonleekungfu]

Well our guild has one tanked it each kill so I'll throw in my two cents...

As a BrM main, it's *possible* to do it, but I wouldn't solo tank it as a BrM. The weapon DoT wrecks you with your low health pool unless you put on a vial of corruption or something. Our paladin tank has a much better time of it as he doesn't get gibbed by the magic damage as much, that being said.... If SoTR falls you get chunked really hard by autos.

Warrior is probably your best bet from the logs we've looked at, and DK has been done and actually would probably be boarderline op for it with a vial due to the CD on AMS.

Push the dps hard enough, and you go into p3 before the last desecrate weapon in p2.

So basically you mean Warrior > DK > Pally for solo tanking this boss? My DK is not my main any more but the other tank is dk and pretty geared and I can dps.

[britishbubba]

So basically you mean Warrior > DK > Pally for solo tanking this boss? My DK is not my main any more but the other tank is dk and pretty geared and I can dps.

That's pretty much my opinion yeah. Pally is pretty nice for the Devo and lights hammer though.

[Gardiff]

I have no doubt we'd still make the p3 push personally, it was more in response to the guy I was quoting who said that pushing it during a whirl gave them the 2-3% extra dmg they needed to push P3 before second whirl (we always get the boss to 1 HP during the roleplay anyway <.<).

Well we didn't need the 2-3% extra IN ORDER to push before 2nd whirl, it just happened that our dps lined up that way.

Unfortunately I don't have 10 posts so I can't post the warcraft logs here (pretty easy to find anyhow), but I think I can post it here in a few more posts.

There isn't one time a 2nd empowered EWC comes there in the wipes there and only about half the time did we actually push it during the whirlwind. There was another reason we tried to push during whirlwind 3 consistently (and not the ~5 seconds you have before terrace), but its something irrelevant and dumb.

Just wanted to clarify since it sounded like I said we needed the 2-3% during the whirlwind to push, but pushing to phase 4 before a 2nd EWC is pretty easy as I think you can see there were not even DPS potions / 2nd stormlashses used when we lusted during the kill attempt (this is speaking more to what I was saying is pretty dumb, but you get the idea).

[jasonleekungfu]

That's pretty much my opinion yeah. Pally is pretty nice for the Devo and lights hammer though.

Do you feel a big gap between dk and pally? Cuz we can either let me tank on pally and the dk go dps, or let him tank and I stay dps on whichever (monk most likely). Both way have pros and cons as far as I can imagine.

[Gardiff]

Do you feel a big gap between dk and pally? Cuz we can either let me tank on pally and the dk go dps, or let him tank and I stay dps on whichever (monk most likely). Both way have pros and cons as far as I can imagine.

Sorry for hijacking your topic with mostly offtopic stuff. But for this, I can say that your arcing light is pretty much another cooldown for the whirlwinds for prot. and yeah the pros / cons of dk / paladin have been talked about by a few.

[jasonleekungfu]

Sorry for hijacking your topic with mostly offtopic stuff. But for this, I can say that your arcing light is pretty much another cooldown for the whirlwinds for prot. and yeah the pros / cons of dk / paladin have been talked about by a few.

Yea and not just for tanking, the one who switches to dps also has pros/cons as well. Meh guess we'll see when we get there <.<

[Gardiff]

Yea and not just for tanking, the one who switches to dps also has pros/cons as well. Meh guess we'll see when we get there <.<

So are the combos either,

1) DK tank + monk dps (you)
2) DK Dps + prot tank (you)

Losing both a devo and a strong arcing light (prot only) is... a bit much but it really depends on your raid cooldowns that you have already. I'll be honest, I have never raided with a windwalker monk and just off the top of my head, I don't think they really bring much for garrosh. They probably can kill the transition easier I suppose over a DK DPS.

Do death knight tanks get to speck AMZ here or do you go purg? That is another consideration.

[Tech614]

About P2 paladin and dk should have the least problem with the stacks according to my experience from normal. But I personally wouldn't consider one tank with my monk for cuz they are just so vulnerable to constant magic damage. I remember he took so much more damage than my co-tank dk when we were progressing on normal. Sounds like paladin would be my choice

Uhh Monk's have a pretty solid toolset for dealing with the stacks. Glyphed Gaurd for a 1+ mil absorb every time stacks get high and a rotation of diffuse magic, avert harm, zen med, fort brew. Much better then a paladin's. Monk's in a mastery build are also the best tank in the game for mitigating Garrosh's melee damage. The only reason a warrior is better is because they do more dps and still have a solid toolset. The rest of the tanks are both far below monk and war for doing this.

[britishbubba]

Uhh Monk's have a pretty solid toolset for dealing with the stacks. Glyphed Gaurd for a 1+ mil absorb every time stacks get high and a rotation of diffuse magic, avert harm, zen med, fort brew. Much better then a paladin's. Monk's in a mastery build are also the best tank in the game for mitigating Garrosh's melee damage. The only reason a warrior is better is because they do more dps and still have a solid toolset. The rest of the tanks are both far below monk and war for doing this.

The 40% magic shield wall from divine protection is going to be a lot better than glyphed guard... Not to mention the just better self heals that a paladin has. Monks are the tank that is most susceptible to magic damage just because we have such a piss poor EH pool compared to other tanks since every other tank actually sits above 1M health, while raid buffed a BiS monk is like 920k.

I mean, they can do it, I've seen logs of monks doing it, but they're certainly not the best. Every other tank has better mitigation CDs, and warriors have Sbar which soaks the same as guard, but is spammable.

[Tech614]

The 40% magic shield wall from divine protection is going to be a lot better than glyphed guard... Not to mention the just better self heals that a paladin has. Monks are the tank that is most susceptible to magic damage just because we have such a piss poor EH pool compared to other tanks since every other tank actually sits above 1M health, while raid buffed a BiS monk is like 920k.

I mean, they can do it, I've seen logs of monks doing it, but they're certainly not the best. Every other tank has better mitigation CDs, and warriors have Sbar which soaks the same as guard, but is spammable.

You have no clue how to use your toolset if you think Monk's are bad against 1 tanking Garrosh.

Diffuse Magic, Glyphed Gaurd, Zen Med, Fort Brew combined with Avert Harm, Gift of the OX orbs all over the place, expel harm topping you off anytime you drop below 35% health and the best EH against Garrosh's melee in the game.

It isn't even hard to do, and you require little stress from your healers doing it as you are mostly self sustainable at those vengeance levels. The only thing that can kill a properly played Brewmaster at 500k+ venegance is getting globaled which won't happen here if you use your tool kit right.

[britishbubba]

You have no clue how to use your toolset if you think Monk's are bad against 1 tanking Garrosh.

Diffuse Magic, Glyphed Gaurd, Zen Med, Fort Brew combined with Avert Harm, Gift of the OX orbs all over the place, expel harm topping you off anytime you drop below 35% health and the best EH against Garrosh's melee in the game.

It isn't even hard to do, and you require little stress from your healers doing it as you are mostly self sustainable at those vengeance levels. The only thing that can kill a properly played Brewmaster at 500k+ venegance is getting globaled which won't happen here if you use your tool kit right.

No where did I say they were bad, don't put words in my mouth.

Monks have the lowest EH against magic damage of any tank. That's a fact. The ticking magic damage is what will kill you on that fight, not garrosh autos. EH against garry autos is pretty irrelevant. Every tank will deal with it just fine on 10m.

GoTOx is also kinda meh on garrosh assuming you're doing the strat where you don't kill weapons since you will never actually build up any sizable amount of orbs as you have to move to a new location every 20 seconds.

As for your long list of CDs... DKs only have to use AMS, everything else is just icing. Same with paladins just using DP, warriors using Sbar, druids using barskin. Monks can solo tank, but they're not the best as you said they were. Listing zen med is a point against monks. Other tanks can use CDs and still do damage. You're doing ZERO damage while in zen med. Every point of damage matters on garrosh, esp from your tank, who while solo tanking will be your top boss damage.

And for EH capping you off in health? FR, EF, DS all say hi. Monks aren't unique in that aspect.